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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    We are still a very inconsistent basketball team and on any given night against almost any given opponent you really don’t know which team will show its face.

    But no matter how you look at it going 2-1 on a 3 games in 3 nights is a good thing, it certainly beats going 1-2 or even 0-3.

    Oddly enough I did not realize before the game that the bucks were also on game 3 of 3 nights as well and had to fly in from Charlotte last night. However they had to land in Chicago due to fog and drive up, not arriving till 1:30 a.m. I have no idea what time the Pacers arrived but it couldn’t have been but maybe 2-3 hours before that so that is no excuse.

    On this night we got the good Pacers, you know the one’s who when they play like this make many of us long time observers proclaim greatness and that nobody wants to play us in the Playoffs. This is of course the opposite side of the Pacers, you know the one’s that make many of us long time observers proclaim how much they suck and that we really would have been better off with a high lottery pick.

    Now I know that we have been filled with a lot of gloom over the past month, and with good reason, however there is another slight trend starting to develop. We are starting to play a little better on a more consistent basis. The Suns game was just one of those times where we played pretty good but just not good enough. A stop here and a score there and we might have had a 3-0 series.

    But let’s just focus on tonight’s game.

    First and foremost I always start any and all postings whenever we play against any team coached by Scot Skiles by stating my admiration for him as a coach. Since Larry Brown finally lost his mind prior to getting put out of the league I believe Scot is the best coach in the game. Now to be honest he has some very stiff competition by Thibadeau up in Chicago & of course our very own Frank Vogel, but till further notice I still believe Scot is the best. The fact that he can take that train wreck of a roster and have them winning 7 of their previous 8 games prior to our game is just unbelievable. When Scot was a player (yes sadly I’m old enough to remember him as a Pacer) he was the kind of player who would bite you rather than let you get around him to score. While the Bucks don’t defend at the level I am used to his teams defending he still has them trying to.

    At the end of the day the Bucks are just too small. Yes they will be able to win some regular season games but under no circumstance do I think they can do any kind of damage in the playoffs. They might win a game or two but that is only because they have a punchers chance. Our starting shooting guard is as tall as their center.

    That doesn’t mean that they aren’t talented and it doesn’t take anything away from the victory, it’s just an observation that if that club is ever going to do anything they are going to have to make it so poor Drew Gooden, who is playing out of his mind good for them, doesn’t have to face the 7’2” Roy Hibbert or Dwight Howard. Vnzla told me on twitter and I agree with him, the Bucks need to really pursue Chris Kaman in the off season.

    Ok, enough about them.

    Let us once again bask in the glory that is the Indiana Pacers.

    The word for tonight is efficiency.

    As a team we shot 51.2% from the field & 58.3% from the three point line. More often than not when you shoot that well you are going to win, obviously the Suns game was the other side of that but for now we will all just pretend like that game didn’t happen.

    But the one thing that I want everyone to circle the date on the calendar for is this. We more than doubled the Bucks from the free throw line. We shot 38 free throw shots to their 18.

    Remember at the beginning of the season when we were really good? Remember what some of us were just gushing over, well besides the fact that we were actually rebounding, playing tough, not chucking three’s like a Gatling gun and Satan was not attempting to spread his evil over the masses from our sidelines. We were thrilled because we were out shooting our opponents from the line and doing it quite often.

    You do that when you only take 12 three point shots. You do that when your small forward attacks the rim and doesn’t settle for a jumper. You do that when both of your backup guards drive the lane.

    I know that the opponent wasn’t really that tough on the interior but let’s just go ahead and say it, during this game we played smash mouth basketball. There was a real concerted effort to attack the rim and take it inside.

    The night was also not without its comic relief either. We had in the matter of a few min. Mike Dunleavy blocking a shot like he was Ben Wallace to then turn around and channel Rick Mahorn and lay out Tyler Hansbrough by being the enforcer. I fully expected the next sequence of events would be for George Hill to flip the ball out to Lou Amundsen who would rise up and swish a three.

    Overall though this was just another game where we came together and the sum was greater than the parts as several players played good to great games and the team overall was just a juggernaut.

    Let’s do the Good the Bad & the Ugly.

    The Good:

    Very tempted to just say the entire team and leave it at that but that would be cheap.
    David West: He set the tone early. He very intentionally took the ball down in the painted area and made Ilyasova attempt to guard him, which he could not. I like him as a good young player (hard to imagine he is only 24) but he just could do absolutely nothing against the girth and width of David West and the fact that West can hit that nice mid range shot did not allow him to back off of him. Even when West missed he was making the defense react to him so both Danny & Roy could get in place for offensive rebounds. He also had 7 boards to go along with his 15 points and a block.

    Roy Hibbert: Just absolutely befuddled Gooden all night long, which btw is no real shame to Drew. Roy has two things going for him in this matchup. 1. He is actually pretty good when he is on, God knows we’ve all seen enough of Roy when he is not on to know that he in theory could have trouble here. But when he is actually good Roy and on, Drew Gooden has no hope in hell of stopping him. 2. He is 7’2” tall and you can’t teach that. At best Gooden is 6’10” (I don’t know or care what he is listed at he is no taller than either West or George) and he just could not even reach the ball when Roy held it up.

    Danny Granger: The single most impressive thing for Danny tonight was that he made a very concerted effort to drive the ball and not settle for the jumper that he can get at almost any time. His reward for doing this, he got to shoot 10 free throw shots hitting 9. That is something you want to see from him every game if you can. Also he just kills me when he does that dribble between the legs pull up for a jumper move. Like he is Michael Jordan or something, fortunately for everyone involved (well minus Delfino) he made the shot. Also for those of you keeping score at home Danny Granger had 15 points on the night and Monta Ellis had 11 and the Pacers won again. At this rate I believe that Danny and the team would welcome playing whatever team Ellis is on at least 10 times a year.

    George Hill: Assassin. George just came in and became Kano on the Bucks and ripped out their hearts. He all but shut Jennings out of the game once he was on him on one end and just scored at will on the other end. BTW Collison did an excellent job on Brandon as well tonight. I know he is supposed to be a good player but I swear that I have never seen the guy have a good game. Anyway back to George he was just on a murderous rampage in the second half, which is good considering he didn’t play worth a crap the two previous games.

    Darren Collison: I’m going to go ahead and throw him a bone here because even though the numbers don’t show it I think he had a very good game. For once his defense didn’t make me want to gouge out my eyes and his speed came in so handy that Jennings had to foul him because he couldn’t keep him in front of him, which made me question if this was opposite day.

    Dahntay Jones: To add insult to injury to those who like Monta Ellis, ahem you know who you are, Dahntay outscored him as well. For whatever reason he was on a mission to score tonight and when you hit 3 of 5 from three point range I guess you earn the right to take a few shots. Solid play on both ends of the floor and he was rewarded with extended min.

    The Bad:

    Hard to say that anybody really played bad for us but if there was one player who you would say didn’t have the best of games it would be Paul George. This is about 3 or 4 games in a row now that he has got into some foul trouble and turned the ball over more than you would care to see happen. I’d like to say that his defense held firm but he only got to play for 14 min. tonight so it’s hard to say.

    Monta Ellis: For a guy that someone compared to Derrick Rose & LeBron James in his ability to score he sure hasn’t scored much vs. the Pacers. Or if he has then I guess that makes Danny Granger Michael Jordan.

    The Ugly:



    The one truly great thing about this win was that it made it so we didn’t have to suffer a three game losing streak as we are going to face the Heat mercifully for the last time on Monday.

    I don’t have to have a win, I don’t even have to have a loss of 5 points or less. But for the love of God could we please make certain that we don’t get put away in the 1st quarter.

    Hey who knows though we might catch a break and they will rest the big three thinking that they can take us without them.




    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    nice post peck.

    glad to see you giving collison credit.

    some games the little dude does have good defense and can get some deflections and cause to's. we know hes capable of playing good d, but his effort seems to be lacking some nights.

    there are a lot of games that collison puts up mediocre stats, it goes unnoticed (fairly so) but he still has played a great game and did exactly what his role was on the team. the only times he truly is a liability is against the bigger point guards (derrick williams, etc.) and then starting george hill over dc.
    Last edited by Pacer.; 03-25-2012 at 05:58 AM.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    barbosa had a nice and1 this game.

    i am going to step out on a limb and could be wrong. but i am fearful of what barbosa brings to the table long term. he seems like he is so determined on driving to the hole everytime the ball is passed to him. just seems like he has a low bball iq. could be off base here!

  5. #4
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer. View Post
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    barbosa had a nice and1 this game.

    i am going to step out on a limb and could be wrong. but i am fearful of what barbosa brings to the table long term. he seems like he is so determined on driving to the hole everytime the ball is passed to him. just seems like he has a low bball iq. could be off base here!
    Yes, it's a little too early to know, but I don't have your concern just yet. I see Barbosa as having been given a clear role to score, and he is trying to figure out how to aggressively do that while being aware of his teammates for the good pass when his penetration creates opportunities.

    I've seen glimpses already of some really nice looks and court awareness and vision. It's just that he is so new to his teammates that he doesn't know what they do yet. That will take a few more games.
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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer. View Post
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    i am going to step out on a limb and could be wrong. but i am fearful of what barbosa brings to the table long term. he seems like he is so determined on driving to the hole everytime the ball is passed to him. just seems like he has a low bball iq. could be off base here!
    It's not a matter of low bball iq. It's a matter of insticts. Leandro will score. It's what he does better. Sure, he'll pass the ball when he cannot get his shot off but if he sees a way to get his shot off he is going to grab it by the horns.

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  9. #6
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    It's not a matter of low bball iq. It's a matter of insticts. Leandro will score. It's what he does better. Sure, he'll pass the ball when he cannot get his shot off but if he sees a way to get his shot off he is going to grab it by the horns.
    It is also important, I think, to understand that this is EXACTLY what he was brought here to do. I think in games where the scoring is balanced across the players on the floor and the ball is moving, we won't see Barbosa play as much as in games where the scoring has stagnated and his push is needed.
    BillS

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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    It is also important, I think, to understand that this is EXACTLY what he was brought here to do. I think in games where the scoring is balanced across the players on the floor and the ball is moving, we won't see Barbosa play as much as in games where the scoring has stagnated and his push is needed.
    Exactly. Which is why I have no problem with his role.

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    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Pacers will remain inconsistent till 2 things happen.

    1. Vogel actually has time to implement his style of offense. We should have a better offense and defensive system next season.

    2. Need a better starting point.

    Having said that. Really great win. Hope this feeling carries over to the Heat. Would be nice to drop over 100 on the Heat and win.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Pacers will remain inconsistent till 2 things happen.

    1. Vogel actually has time to implement his style of offense. We should have a better offense and defensive system next season.
    I'm going to harp on Vogel's offense until it's somehow addressed. There either isn't an offensive scheme other than the "pass the ball around to the next open person unless you gets a shot that you are comfortable with taking" method that I keep on seeing. I have seen too many ill-advised shots taken by Hansbrough ( who really sucks at taking and missing last minute shots ), GH and Barbosa ( that can hit some last minute desperation shots ) when the shot clock is down to the last second.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm going to harp on Vogel's offense until it's somehow addressed. There either isn't an offensive scheme other than the "pass the ball around to the next open person unless you gets a shot that you are comfortable with taking" method that I keep on seeing. I have seen too many ill-advised shots taken by Hansbrough ( who really sucks at taking and missing last minute shots ), GH and Barbosa ( that can hit some last minute desperation shots ) when the shot clock is down to the last second.
    I hate to be the one who harps on this, but when you had AJ playing with GH, so long as AJ was playing the point well (and not just jacking up a shot) quit often that unit displayed ball movement/player movement. (There were about five plays used pretty often. The curl to get GH a midrange shot. The screening to get a corner three. The post entry. The PnR/PnP -one with Amundson, the other with Tyler. ) They set screens (and ran off of them well) and got the ball into the post well. There was some absolutely great offense being run at times with that unit. (particularly when Hansbrough was replaced by West)

    A court general makes a difference. Certain types of point guards not only pass the ball well, but also direct/manage a team.

    The first unit? That's an entirely different question with it's own problems.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I hate to be the one who harps on this, but when you had AJ playing with GH, so long as AJ was playing the point well (and not just jacking up a shot) quit often that unit displayed ball movement/player movement. (There were about five plays used pretty often. The curl to get GH a midrange shot. The screening to get a corner three. The post entry. The PnR/PnP -one with Amundson, the other with Tyler. ) They set screens (and ran off of them well) and got the ball into the post well. There was some absolutely great offense being run at times with that unit. (particularly when Hansbrough was replaced by West)

    A court general makes a difference. Certain types of point guards not only pass the ball well, but also direct/manage a team.

    The first unit? That's an entirely different question with it's own problems.
    I do not doubt what you say is true ( that having a better Floor General on the floor to direct traffic helps mitigate the issue that we are discussing here ), but please note that this observation of "passing the ball continually until they either find a shot that they like or running out of time on the shot clock and therefore heaving up a bad shot at the very last second" has been happening for a very long time.....even in the 2nd unit....even before Barbosa came on board and GH was running the point.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Born ready? TheDavisBrothers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Skiles, best coach?!

    Future HOFer GREGG POPOVICH

  19. #13
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Makes me feel better, I'm not the only one who feels that way about Larry Brown and Scott Skiles. My thoughts, exactly.

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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    I will say this about PG and his last few games being the "UGLY"

    I like the fact that he gives everything he has to the defensive side. He is trying so hard to be "ELITE" on that end of the court first which is a sign of hope and glimmer.

    The problem he is having right now is what a lot of high school players have. They think they are so athletically gifted that they can get to every pass or every steal. This is a good thing to have, he has the killer instinct brewing in him and once he learns exactly which ones he can get to and which ones he cannot get to he will be a all nba defensive guard.

    You can tell he is playing his role on the offensive side so the fact he is not breaking out for 20 does not bother me. Like frank said he just needs to hit his spot of 3 and get his points off fast breaks for them to look like a success this year. This summer I really expect him to work on his post up game. There is not a guard in the game that should be able to guard him on the block.

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  22. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    I have come to the conclusion that how successfully Roy plays is more dependent upon who is guarding him that anything else. Certain players (Marc Gasol, and a few others, who was it about two weeks ago, I forget) can effectively shut Roy down. Also it depends upon the type of scheme teams are able to play against Roy.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I have come to the conclusion that how successfully Roy plays is more dependent upon who is guarding him that anything else. Certain players (Marc Gasol, and a few others, who was it about two weeks ago, I forget) can effectively shut Roy down. Also it depends upon the type of scheme teams are able to play against Roy.
    this. there are a couple of guys that can defend roy on their own. most effective defense seems to be that hard trap. which is a little surprising. roy is a good passer and seems to see the floor well for a big. but the hard trap seems to fluster him and get him off balance big time.

    the trap thing is something that needs to be fixed by playoff time, or pacer fans will see 48 min of roy looking bad on the trap and defending the PnR. there are a lot of smart guys on the pacer coaching staff, they need to fix this, ASAP.

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    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Is there anything better than reading Pecks' odd thoughts on a Monday morning at work with a cup of coffee and free leftover cake from someone's kid birthday party?

    And who the heck's kid gets a birthday cake with a filler of raspberry-chocolate ganache?

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  27. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Can't believe I forgot, it was Tyson Chandler who I suggested after the game made Roy look like a child.

    I am not too worried about the teams that have to out right double team Roy, it is the teams that can defend him one-on-one that worry me

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Can't believe I forgot, it was Tyson Chandler who I suggested after the game made Roy look like a child.

    I am not too worried about the teams that have to out right double team Roy, it is the teams that can defend him one-on-one that worry me
    In the first game, but in game 2 Roy more than held his own. Which made me happy as in the past Roy would have went into a shell and not been able to produce.

    It is usually the mobile athletic bigs who can body up that give Roy fits. Noah, Horford, Bogut, etc. that in the past that have made Roy look horrid. But this season he actually held his own in one game vs. Noah and outplayed Horford in their one meeting.

    It's taking longer than we would like but Roy is finally at least getting to the point where he doesn't have a mental break down when he has to face these players.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  30. #20

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Loved the game against the Bucks, but as good as it was I can see the Miami game just the opposite after they got humiliated yesterday on national TV. Lets just hope not.

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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    and outplayed Horford in their one meeting.
    He didn't outplayed him. Al was injured in the 1st quarter

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    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He didn't outplayed him. Al was injured in the 1st quarter
    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!



    Roy is a man.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!
    Yeah but I don't consider this outplaying the opposition

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And WHO swatted Horford's **** so hard that it made him tear his Pectoral?!



    Roy is a man.
    MAN!

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Deer Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Can't believe I forgot, it was Tyson Chandler who I suggested after the game made Roy look like a child.

    I am not too worried about the teams that have to out right double team Roy, it is the teams that can defend him one-on-one that worry me
    Roy dropped 24-12 in the second game vs. Chandler on 8/13 shooting, while chandler had just 8 and 9. He bounced back quite well and showed some toughness.

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