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Thread: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    Did anybody else think Brian Shaw did a heck of a job filling in for Vogel at the end? I liked his tactics.
    why did he take granger out? Who cares if he has 5 fouls. i want my best player on the floor with under a minute.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    There is two things I learned tonight,

    1.When Danny is hitting his shots don't wait until the last minute in the 4 quarter to get him the ball.

    2. I think we made a mistake not getting Nash before the trade dead line.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    It's debatable, but I liked Frank standing up for the team and I think it got us hyped up...
    But ya know, that's twice in what, the last 3 or 4 games, where the score has been 7 points or less and Frank does this. It was mentioned earlier in this thread---the whole complexion of the game would have changed had Frank shown his "support" in other ways. A team within 4-7 points should not need to get hyped up. They were already ramped up. How did Frank actually think he would influence the outcome of the game.

    Now, granted, Brian Shaw called a great final couple of minutes. But if you couple the free throws that the Suns got from those dad-gummed illegal defense calls and the technicals, this team shot itself in the foot. I have said that these calls would catch up with us, and tonight, the 4 points probably would have made the difference.

  4. #54
    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    why did he take granger out? Who cares if he has 5 fouls. i want my best player on the floor with under a minute.
    Hmm I didn't even notice lol..

  5. #55

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    There's no way to know that. Maybe him getting tossed fired them up and without that Phoenix would have made a run to strongly close out the game. Who knows? There's no reason to say with such certainty that we could have taken it to OT if Frank had kept his mouth shut.
    It's hard to say anything with certainty, but the more points you "give" another team, the more you have to get yourself to beat them. Frank got tossed when we were down by 4 with what, 2 minutes to go? A two possession game at that point. Couple Frank's techs with the other techs and you have a young coach and a young team making mistakes that maybe a more disciplined team does not do.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    I'm okay with the Paul George no call, unless its terribly obvious I hate games coming down to a foul called with such little time left.

    But the obvious travel from Grant Hill really pissed me off. Listen, referees are human I get that. Sometimes they make mistakes. But to give Vogel a technical for getting pissed over YOUR mistake? That's just disgusting.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tflo View Post
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    There is two things I learned tonight,

    1.When Danny is hitting his shots don't wait until the last minute in the 4 quarter to get him the ball.

    2. I think we made a mistake not getting Nash before the trade dead line.
    How is it a mistake when we had no chance of getting him, b/c the Suns didn't make him available unless he asked to be traded, out of respect.... and he wouldn't ask for a trade.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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  10. #58
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    How is it a mistake when we had no chance of getting him, b/c the Suns didn't make him available unless he asked to be traded, out of respect.... and he wouldn't ask for a trade.
    This. Nash was not available for trade. Simple as that. We may get him as a FA but he is not a player to ask for a trade.

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    Smile Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyd View Post
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    But ya know, that's twice in what, the last 3 or 4 games, where the score has been 7 points or less and Frank does this. It was mentioned earlier in this thread---the whole complexion of the game would have changed had Frank shown his "support" in other ways. A team within 4-7 points should not need to get hyped up. They were already ramped up. How did Frank actually think he would influence the outcome of the game.

    Now, granted, Brian Shaw called a great final couple of minutes. But if you couple the free throws that the Suns got from those dad-gummed illegal defense calls and the technicals, this team shot itself in the foot. I have said that these calls would catch up with us, and tonight, the 4 points probably would have made the difference.
    I thought the complexion of the game changed in a positive way when he got ejected. Remember the Min game when Granger got a cheap shot from Love and it set him off. Of course you would hope that the players are already hyped up about a close game, but I believe stuff like that just adds even more fuel to the fire and really lights that fire under your @$$. I would argue that that gain outweighed the lose of the 1 point...

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    I'm okay with the Paul George no call, unless its terribly obvious I hate games coming down to a foul called with such little time left.

    But the obvious travel from Grant Hill really pissed me off. Listen, referees are human I get that. Sometimes they make mistakes. But to give Vogel a technical for getting pissed over YOUR mistake? That's just disgusting.
    Most people wouldn't have blown as many calls as the refs did tonight. Six pairs of eyeballs missing stuff like that is inexcusable.

    Hell, I'm pretty sure Knick Bavetta is a walking corpse at this point, and HE would have done a better job than these knuckleheads did.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    You cant give up 113 points and expect to win. Period. Suns had countless wide open uncontested jumpers and those really cost us down the stretch.

  14. #62

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    I'll sum this game up real quick: The Suns have Steve Nash. The Pacers do not.
    Here we come lottery?

  15. #63

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Darren Collison is NOT a point guard. He's a "point guard" who gets a few assists a night and scores a few baskets. Same way with Hill. This team does not have a true point guard, and until they do, they won't go far. Nash finds the open man no matter if it's for a three or a dunk. He finds the open man. Collison does not. Lance does not. Hill does not. AJ does not. This team needs a point guard, desperately.
    Here we come lottery?

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  17. #64

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    You cant give up 113 points and expect to win. Period. Suns had countless wide open uncontested jumpers and those really cost us down the stretch.
    OKC gave up 140, 116 at the end of regulation.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Forget the refs. These things happen.
    What I don't understand is why on that play where we were down 3 Shaw benched Granger and decided to let George create his own 3 point shot (which resulted in an airball). Granger was 3-3 on threes at that point, if your best offensive player is hot why do you bench him when you have a chance to tie the game up?
    1 possession later we were down 6 and he brought Granger back in and he scored a 3 off the inbound...
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  20. #66
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Happy that we fought back once again but man if there is a game that showed how 'naked' we are at the point,that was it(I'm talking about the point guard exhibition Nash gave).

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Steve Nash is a an all-star surgeon.

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  23. #68
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Nash certainly does put a spotlight on the complete void we have at the point guard position. With Nash instead of Collison, the Pacers would have easily won that game.

    I bet 5 years from now Nash will still be the better PG.

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  25. #69
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The only thing that needs to be said to describe this game is Steve Nash. He was the difference
    And it wasn't even close.

    I think ALL of Gortats 2 FTA attempts were "assists" from Nash also, meaning that they still got points thanks to a Nash pass but he just didn't get the credit.

    By that count I'd say he was closer to being 100% critical to 30 of their scoring possessions, out of maybe 45 total.



    I'd better never, ever find out that Nash could have been had for a bench player and a 1st. That would have been a massive overvaluation of a late 1st pick.


    What I don't understand is why on that play where we were down 3 Shaw benched Granger and decided to let George create his own 3 point shot (which resulted in an airball). Granger was 3-3 on threes at that point, if your best offensive player is hot why do you bench him when you have a chance to tie the game up?
    I understand you protect Danny's foul situation on defense although Danny had been playing a solid defensive game IMO. But then after the FTs you have 2 20s and a full and you do NOT call timeout to get your scorching hot 3pt man back in the game? Seriously, this isn't even remotely excusable.

    I mean it HAS to be Hill-Paul-Danny at that point. Maybe you go small at PF and only use West or Roy, but Danny is at least playing "PF" on that offensive possession.

    If they didn't have timeouts then okay...but they did.



    It's funny because Vogel was right to be mad about the jump ball call (Frye instead of Nash jumping) but in the end it cost them 1 point, the Pacers still won the jump and then Vogel wasn't out there to run the final possessions.


    Bird shook his head as Vogel went down the tunnel. It was hard to tell if it was because of Vogel's action or the refs call.




    Also what is the deal with the lower Paul PT. Paul is still making mistakes for sure; has trouble with protecting his dribble, etc. But PAUL is the reason why they were able to start defending Gortat. It was Paul who rotated under Gortat on what would have been another easy 2 at the rim and knocked the ball loose.

    Paul started disrupting or breaking up plays all over the place when he returned in the 2nd half and was a big reason why they salvaged a shot at the game. But why did it have to get to that point?

    DC and Barbosa are NOT more valuable to the Pacers than Paul George. For every mistake he makes 2 critical defensive plays that break up a possession or slow it down enough to give the team a shot at defending it (like turning away a dribble penetration, no steal or block but the easy shot is prevented).



    The staff and the players themselves better start figuring out where their bread is buttered because if they keep relying on the wrong plans or the wrong players it's only going to get worse.

  26. #70
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

    Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.
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  28. #71
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Nash shredded our defense and Gortat was a monster. That is all.
    And really to take a positive out of the night it is really a privilege to see one of the best PGs of all time do what he does. First of all he has great awareness and sense of control. You can see him reading plays even before the team has gotten him the ball. DC comes off of high PnRs and picks up his dribble with nowhere to go all the time, Nash almost never gets stuck in jams like that, he always knows what his options are.

    But the second item, the more important item, is his toolbox of passes available to him. I'd bet that 90% of his passes come DIRECTLY out of his dribble motion. Like instead of taking that next dribble it's a one handed bullet bounce pass to the rim. He almost never has to stop and set himself to make a pass, and it's almost always right on target.

    In that regard it was a pleasure to watch this game, to see what high quality PG play can look like.

    And I've seen him up close several times before with the same reaction. For all the Kobes and Lebrons (let alone the 2nd rate wanna-be Kobes and Lebrons) I wish the league had a lot more guys playing the Nash game, the flow and control game of Magic and Bird.

    I just really enjoy seeing more of a Magic game than a Jordan game. And when Nash retires there won't be many more guys left playing that way.

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  30. #72
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

    Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.
    I commented about this to my buddy when DC did it later in the game. Although that time I think Paul rotated over and stopped the penetration. Need to look at the tape but I remember DC getting "bailed out" on a ridiculous steal lunge.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Besides Hibbert being set up somewhere near Muncie when defending the PnR, the other defensive issue that makes me want to jump over the balcony is when one of our guards tries to flash past and "steal" the ball from the ballhandler - missing and leaving a wide open red-carpeted lane to a layup.

    Maybe that might shake up a rookie, but Nash? That stuff needs to be stopped. It's a symptom of trying to defend the ball instead of defending the players.
    Oh yeah and we got also lucky that Michael Redd was not making 3's yesterday or that game would have been done before the 4th quarter, they kept leaving him open for some reason.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-24-2012 at 11:31 AM.

  32. #74
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    Steve Nash is a an all-star surgeon.
    He's also a floor general. In two words, he's the surgeon general...

  33. #75
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Vogel was screaming when Hill traveled. It escalated when PG tied up Nash.

    Actually I wanted Vogel to get his second tech 2 minutes earlier. I wanted to see Shaw in action with a large enough time frame. But I think Frank leaving early would have rallied the troops with more time.


    We got out rebounded. Our defensive rotations were slow. We made stupid passes. Our starters offensive spacing was preseason form. We could not keep them out of the lane. If it was not for our bench we would have gotten blown out.


    David West was worthless tonight. Darren was even more so. Danny's play was great. And we failed to go to Hibbert because only PG can throw an interior pass when Roy is fronted.


    Tonight is vital or we lose 3 in a row.

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