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Thread: Luck vs. RG3

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    I'm sure the Colts will pick Luck. I'm not going to lie to you though, I'm very nervous about a surprise RGIII pick since Grigson seems like a wildcard type personality. I really hope I'm wrong, because Luck is going to be a hall of famer.

    Grigson couldn't pick RGIII without Irsay's blessing. Irsay has to sign off on who ever we pick, and all signs point to Irsay wanting Luck. I believe Polian was on ESPN earlier this week saying that Irsay believes Luck is the right fit for multiple reasons and that Luck is definitely headed to Indy. Can't remember the exact quote though.

    Irsay has the final say on all major decisions (coaching/GM hires, releasing Manning, what we do with the number 1 pick, etc).

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I had read somewhere that while we can technically sign Luck as early as now... early signings won't generally happen.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    I'm sure the Colts will pick Luck. I'm not going to lie to you though, I'm very nervous about a surprise RGIII pick since Grigson seems like a wildcard type personality. I really hope I'm wrong, because Luck is going to be a hall of famer.
    Luck is going to be a Hall of Famer? We won't know for 10 to 12 years (if he lasts that long) and I will bet against it and give some odds if you are interested. I wonder if Las Vegas has a "Luck in the Hall of Fame" bet? I think RGIII is more likely to do that because he is a unique talent and a very intelligent individual. Not that Luck isn't both of these things but RGIII has more tools and he is just different. I wonder if Washington had to chose between Luck and RGIII which one would they take? I have a feeling it is RGIII.....

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Grigson couldn't pick RGIII without Irsay's blessing. Irsay has to sign off on who ever we pick, and all signs point to Irsay wanting Luck. I believe Polian was on ESPN earlier this week saying that Irsay believes Luck is the right fit for multiple reasons and that Luck is definitely headed to Indy. Can't remember the exact quote though.

    Irsay has the final say on all major decisions (coaching/GM hires, releasing Manning, what we do with the number 1 pick, etc).
    Irsay has had his mind set on Luck for a long time now. I guarantee you that when he was interviewing potential general managers that he let them know what he was going to do, and they had to be on board with it to get the gig. Not just in Luck vs. RGIII, but Luck vs. Manning as well. I am of the opinion that Grigson had very little say in those decisions. The rest of our offseason moves? He has probably been given the autonomy to do what he wants, which is the way it should be.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Luck is going to be a Hall of Famer? We won't know for 10 to 12 years (if he lasts that long) and I will bet against it and give some odds if you are interested. I wonder if Las Vegas has a "Luck in the Hall of Fame" bet? I think RGIII is more likely to do that because he is a unique talent and a very intelligent individual. Not that Luck isn't both of these things but RGIII has more tools and he is just different. I wonder if Washington had to chose between Luck and RGIII which one would they take? I have a feeling it is RGIII.....
    Seems like it would be RGIII for the Redskins because he fits their system better, but all teams have felt Luck is rare prospect so I would not say this is the case for sure.

    Also it is not about how many tools you have but how you use them, and all tools are not valued equally at all times.

    For instance speed is wonderful, but for most players in the NFL their 10yd dash time and 20 yd dash is a lot more important than their 40, most QB's will not need to run 40 yds on one play in a game, but they will have to run 10 to get away from defenders to get the pass off or get that first down. The difference between Luck and RGIII is not that different in the 10yd dash at all. In this case RGIII's 40 time is not all that important.

    The biggest tools I feel are pocket awareness(knowing when defenders are around, knowing which way they are coming from, being able to have to footwork to keep balance and move into a area to get the ball off), throwing receivers open, not making turnovers(reads, forcing passes, getting rid of the ball, tucking the ball, knowing when a play is dead,QB Center exchange).

    There are many other tools, that are helpful to QB's but to me these are the most important, not saying Luck or RGIII excels or does not excel in any of these areas but just making the case for my list of top necessities to be a good NFL QB.
    Why so SERIOUS

  7. #31

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    A few things make me think they are leaning towards RG3. The bigger run blocking line, the dedication to ground and pound, and the fact that RG3 will be much more marketable than luck. In other words, RG3 is a potential gold-mine and this is a bottom line business, not just about winning the Super Bowl.

  8. #32
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Eh, why is RG3 a potential gold-mine over Luck? Picking someone else that's flashy --- Vick. Was Vick a bigger gold-mine than, say, Peyton Manning? No. Manning rules the NFL in taht department, and he's way less "flashy" than Vick.

    Goldmines don't usually last when it comes to flash and long bombs. Usually winning and domination of opponents is who rules the NFL... I personally think Luck has more of that in him than RG3.

    Winning the Super Bowl *IS* the most lucrative thing that could happen to a team. Winning the SB is "bottom line".
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-27-2012 at 09:10 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  9. #33

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Eh, why is RG3 a potential gold-mine over Luck? Picking someone else that's flashy --- Vick. Was Vick a bigger gold-mine than, say, Peyton Manning? No. Manning rules the NFL in taht department, and he's way less "flashy" than Vick.

    Goldmines don't usually last when it comes to flash and long bombs. Usually winning and domination of opponents is who rules the NFL... I personally think Luck has more of that in him than RG3.
    If not for the dog fighting incident Vick could have been close to as valuable as Manning. Manning was one of the top 3 QB's in the league while vick couldnt throw a screen pass. From a pure business standpoint Vick was almost as valuable as Manning. Thats why he was paid close to him (over $100mill). Vick was never a legite QB until last year.
    RG3 is athletic like Vick but can pass. He is a rare commodity and I can see Irsay looking at the business side more now since he has his Lombardi trophy.
    Understand what I am saying, RG3 can be much more valuable as an asset to Irsay, but I think Luck will be a much better QB and he is who I hope they pick.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Nah, I disagree, you don't realize how much Manning is/was worth. Manning literally built a stadium. His worth to this franchise dwarfs anything Vick could have done. Unless Vick had reached Manning's status of winning and domination.

    Jersey sales is not what builds stadiums.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  11. #35

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Nah, I disagree, you don't realize how much Manning is/was worth. Manning literally built a stadium. His worth to this franchise dwarfs anything Vick could have done. Unless Vick had reached Manning's status of winning and domination.

    Jersey sales is not what builds stadiums.
    You are not getting my point. Manning was all time great QB while Vick stunk and still was worth $100mill. So all RG3 has to do is not stink and he will be a gold-mine. Luck has to produce. Which is more likely to happen? Luck be an all time great QB or RG3 not stink?

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Ya I get your point, I just don't think it's a very good one. Woulda coulda shoulda --- Vick never equalled Manning in worth in this league. Betting on "goldmines" is like betting on "Hall of Famers".
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-27-2012 at 10:20 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  13. #37

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Ya I get your point, I just don't think it's a very good one. Woulda coulda shoulda --- Vick never equalled Manning in worth in this league. Betting on "goldmines" is like betting on "Hall of Famers".
    I dont think RG3 is much of a gamble though in regards to marketing. He will make the Colts a fortune the second he signs the contract. Luck will have to produce at a high level to be that marketable.

    There has to be legite reason that the pick is "up in the air" (if it really is).
    RG3 is a great talent but will get hurt easier than Luck because of the way he runs around. To me the pick is a no-brainer football wise. The only thing that should make an owner think about it is the financial impact each will have.
    Last edited by troyc11a; 03-28-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  14. #38

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Comparing RG 3 to Vick isn't a fair comparison...RG3 is already a better thrower the Vick was before he went to Jail.

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  16. #39

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Comparing RG 3 to Vick isn't a fair comparison...RG3 is already a better thrower the Vick was before he went to Jail.
    Much Much better even now. Not even a legite comparison. The comparison being made is their marketability. Maybe even the fact that since RG3 is kind of small and can run like Vick, he is going to get hurt.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Lol you guys are funny...

    But I will say it all depends on who wants to endorse these guys and how they fit the market they are trying to advertise to.

    Two last things, Vick was so marketable because of his big play ability, although he led his team to the playoffs before the incident, I believe, he really gained interest due to his ability to do something no other PLAYER in the NFL could do.

    Also, as far as local marketability you need to look to the towns that both of these guys were in. I know this site tends to stay away from race matters, but in Atlanta where there is a lot more African American culture and individuals percentage wise than a city like Indianapolis, he really had a connection with the people. Atlanta is also a flashy town which played into the type of guy Vick is/was.

    I think if Vick would have played in Indianapolis he would have still had a lot of local marketability but definitely not enough to keep up with what Manning has done here.
    Why so SERIOUS

  18. #41

    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Lol you guys are funny...

    But I will say it all depends on who wants to endorse these guys and how they fit the market they are trying to advertise to.

    Two last things, Vick was so marketable because of his big play ability, although he led his team to the playoffs before the incident, I believe, he really gained interest due to his ability to do something no other PLAYER in the NFL could do.

    Also, as far as local marketability you need to look to the towns that both of these guys were in. I know this site tends to stay away from race matters, but in Atlanta where there is a lot more African American culture and individuals percentage wise than a city like Indianapolis, he really had a connection with the people. Atlanta is also a flashy town which played into the type of guy Vick is/was.

    I think if Vick would have played in Indianapolis he would have still had a lot of local marketability but definitely not enough to keep up with what Manning has done here.
    I agree with your comments. This subject is so hypothetical because we do not really know what Irsay's ultimate goal is. Before he got his Lombardi trophy I think all Colt's fans would agree that was his goal. Now that he has one, does a second trophy take precedent over making money?

    Again, there has to be a legite reason why RG3 is being considered. Maybe we are missing something in that regard. Because Luck is far and away the best prospect.

    Maybe..... he is saying that it is up in the air just to gain leverage in negotiations with Luck? I dont know, we are ALL speculating here. No real wrong answers.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I agree with your comments. This subject is so hypothetical because we do not really know what Irsay's ultimate goal is. Before he got his Lombardi trophy I think all Colt's fans would agree that was his goal. Now that he has one, does a second trophy take precedent over making money?

    Again, there has to be a legite reason why RG3 is being considered. Maybe we are missing something in that regard. Because Luck is far and away the best prospect.

    Maybe..... he is saying that it is up in the air just to gain leverage in negotiations with Luck? I dont know, we are ALL speculating here. No real wrong answers.
    True, I am ready for the draft, less than a month away....
    Why so SERIOUS

  20. #43
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I dont think RG3 is much of a gamble though in regards to marketing. He will make the Colts a fortune the second he signs the contract. Luck will have to produce at a high level to be that marketable.

    There has to be legite reason that the pick is "up in the air" (if it really is).
    RG3 is a great talent but will get hurt easier than Luck because of the way he runs around. To me the pick is a no-brainer football wise. The only thing that should make an owner think about it is the financial impact each will have.
    The point I think you're missing, however, is the financial boon for consistent post-season wins. Luck may not be as flashy as RG3 (although Luck will sell tickets/merchandise, mark my word). But I think he has a much better shot at winning SBs (or at least winning in the post-season) than RG3***, and that's where the real financial boon is --- which is the exact same effect Manning had.

    And that's my point. I feel like, with RG3, you gain financial income via marketability immediately, but will get dwarfed in the long-term.

    Manning vs Vick probly has a similar graph. Manning probly wasn't as big of a financial boon as Vick in the early years, but in the end, Manning's worth became monumental... Vick trailed off.

    Off-field decision-making aside... you could see Vick's slide coming by just examining his style of play and build... and determine that his style of play was more prone to injury and less conducive for late-post-season success, which would effect his true long-term gainability.

    With Luck, you gain market boon from end-game wins --- and you get the same financial income from marketability down the road. It may not manifest as quickly as RG3... but in the end the overall gain is like a mountain (Luck) compared to a mole hill (RG3). With RG3, you're eating cake --- with Luck you're also eating the icing. A (good) businessman in a proper position looks at it that way. The only way he'd look at it the RG3 way is if he's just in a world of hurt and needing cash quick and badly. Irsay doesn't strike me as fitting that mold. He's loaded and patient and gonna go the long-term, big-bomb route, so to speak.

    ***I've drawn this conclusion from studying their games and determining that Luck's style of play is much more conducive to post-season play than RG3's.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-28-2012 at 01:59 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    RG3 will not be able to win in the playoffs?

    Can you give me the winning lottery numbers for the 500 million mega millions Friday as well?

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  23. #45
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Never said that.

    Said Luck's game is better suited for it.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I see you added some after I posted. You are entitled to your opinion......

    I see both as having an equal chance to succeed in the playoffs. IMO the QB can be a scrub if you have a great defense and a good running game (Ravens)

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  26. #47
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    Ya, that was my train of thought too, at first... from a sky-high view. Both were fairly close.

    Watch more video, maybe... that's how it became increasingly evident to me, the more I saw, that it really isn't close.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I have seen video of both, and I stand by my claim that both have an equal chance of being successful in the post season.

    I am more worried about how they put around each other, then if they can handle the playoffs.

    Of course, both will have to make it to the post season first....

  29. #49
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I know this sounds crazy in light of Indy's recent roster moves... but I'm more confident in Indy's management putting a team around Luck than I am in Washington putting one around RG3. The track record over the past decade speaks for itself. Irsay may seem odd, but he built one helluva team. I think he's able to do it again. I think he's doing it, right now.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  30. #50
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    Default Re: Luck vs. RG3

    I like Luck because he's that smart, pocket passing gunner. If you wan't athleticism, he's your guy too. He ran the same 40 as Cam Newton. RG3 is the new Vick. Crazy fast, not very intelligent when it comes to throwing vs running.
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