Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

2012 Indycar thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: 2012 Indycar thread

    Chevy and Honda say they can supply up to 14 each (28) plus spares. Lotus has 5 right now, supposed to be 6 by Indy. That makes 34. Cars aren't the problem. There's supposed to be 60 of the new Dallaras in the field. It's motors that's the issue here.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: 2012 Indycar thread

      Maybe they'll allow DP01's in the Indy field but not score them for points...
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: 2012 Indycar thread

        It's been tossed around but they don't want the old car going 228 and the new car going 220.
        http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
        "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: 2012 Indycar thread

          Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
          It's been tossed around but they don't want the old car going 228 and the new car going 220.
          I was joking about the Panoz to make the Cartizens happy...

          Although IMO it's too bad the new car is questionable on speed at IMS to the point that the old (Dallara) cars would not only be viable but likely faster. I would've like for them to have been grandfathered (at least with upgrades) to be allowed at Indy. At least that way they still had some future instead of being destined for the scrap heap.

          Unlike most of the IMS brass I have no problem with Indy having a different set of rules over the rest of the series. Grandfathered cars... one off chassis... one off engines... I'm fine with. Just don't let any car that doesn't meet Indycar series rules be able to collect points.
          If Penske thinks he can use the rulebook to make a Penske Special and run away with the Indy 500... fine... But he'd do it at the expense of points towards the championship.

          Of course you do run the risk of someone showing up with a better car than the Dallara... Heh... And it's probably a fairly likely risk too.
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: 2012 Indycar thread

            If they get in a pinch, why not allow the "old" cars to qually 2nd weekend?
            http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
            "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: 2012 Indycar thread

              Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
              If they get in a pinch, why not allow the "old" cars to qually 2nd weekend?

              Won't the second weekend be race day?

              I thought it was-
              Practice week
              Sat - Pole Day
              Sun - Bump Day
              Track closed to practice
              Fri Carb Day

              Sun Race Day
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                Your right. I was having flashbacks to the "old" days...Back when we had enough cars to need four days of time trials.
                http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                  Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
                  Your right. I was having flashbacks to the "old" days...Back when we had enough cars to need four days of time trials.
                  "The Month of May"....
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                    http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-at-indy-test/

                    Andretti does 218 with a tow at IMS test with new car.
                    He says 216 was his best speed by himself.

                    Will Phillips says the cars will be over 220MPH for qualifying.

                    Barring some major change to the car/engine I'm going to predict 218 if conditions are good and the week of practice is not interrupted too much (if at all) by weather ... and I'm really leaning towards 217 something.

                    I think they are going to be hard pressed to find 2MPH let alone 4MPH to get Phillips' prediction of over 220.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                      I would agree. There's a lot of drag to overcome.

                      Another little nugget:
                      SPEAKING OF LOTUS

                      John Judd Jr. took exception this paragraph in this week’s (Robin Miller)commentary (on SPEED.com) on the Barber race:

                      "Not only is the Lotus/Judd engine strapped for cash and shy on horsepower (by an estimated 50 compared to Honda and Chevrolet), it’s a rarity right now because there are only five of them for their five drivers.’’

                      Judd’s response:

                      "What you have reported is un-true, we are not strapped for cash. There is no evidence that the Lotus engine is 50 HP down on Honda and Chevy. It would not have been possible for Lotus cars to maintain position or overtake other cars in the races were that to be the case.

                      "And there are more than five engines in circulation. Spare engines were available throughout the weekend at St. Pete and Barber. I would be grateful if you would retract these false statements.’’

                      I'm calling cause:

                      "Of the nine teams that took part in the (Indy) test, five had Chevrolet engines and four had Hondas. The series' third engine manufacturer, Lotus, skipped the test because it hasn't built an adequate inventory of engines.

                      IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard said Lotus' absence was not a major cause for concern.

                      "Lotus has told us they are six to eight weeks behind," he said. "We're going to give them every opportunity to succeed. They're working hard."

                      The new car will have been used in four road/street course events before Indy, but the 500 will be its oval-track debut." - Courtesy of Kurt Cavin at the Indy Star.

                      Which is it gonna be folks? Also, the same Star article mentioned that the engines used in the Indy test were going to be used at Long Beach, so nobody wanted to stress them too hard. I find it a little disturbing that the series wanted them to test at Indy and they can't get a little relief on the engine policy. I'm going to look into this, stay tuned...
                      Last edited by DaveP63; 04-05-2012, 08:01 AM.
                      http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                      "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                        Because it came up earlier here's the engine rule explained:

                        "The engine issues that befell Simona de Silvestro and Alex Tagliani during the St. Pete race warranted a bulletin from INDYCAR clarifying its engine change rules. De Silvestro encountered an engine failure in the race—it wasn’t catastrophic, but did prevent her from finishing the race.

                        Per rule 15.6.1, she wasn’t penalized because the failure happened in the race. After the race, Lotus found a worrisome trend in the engine data from Tagliani’s car and called for an engine change.

                        Tagliani’s Team Barracuda BHA team was assessed a 10-spot grid penalty because the change, although rooted in a problem that manifested itself in the race, did not prevent him from crossing the finish line.

                        INDYCAR’s bulletin made it clear that finishing the race eliminates the use of Rule 15.6.1 to escape the 10-spot penalty (and before the 1850-mile usage minimum has been hit).

                        Tagliani dropped out on Lap 1 at Barber with an engine-related problem, but it’s likely he’ll avoid a penalty. His Barber issue was attributed to a rather simple fuel pump drive failure, which, according to Rule 15.4.2, is eligible for repair and re-use. Provided it’s fixed and put back in the car for Long Beach, Tag will start wherever he qualifies."
                        http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                        "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                          Here's the answer on the engines for the Indy test from RM...

                          "David:

                          The idea is to make each engine last 1,850 miles between changes to reduce
                          costs but it's silly to think anybody is going to run a bunch of laps with
                          these parameters.
                          and I think the engines are scarce until May

                          thanks, robin"

                          Also, AGR blew one and almost blew another at the Sonoma test.
                          http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                          "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                            I was going to post some more of my thoughts on the engine change rule but Marshall Pruett has beat me to it (pardon the poem):

                            Forgetting its F1 origins for a moment, why am I not shocked that a roundtable...dominated by engine manufacturers...agrees to an engine rule that penalizes the drivers and teams, rather than the makers of the engines? I genuinely laugh every time I think about how this probably went down:

                            INDYCAR: “OK, group, how do we want to handle things when your engines blow up before they reach the minimum mileage we’ve stated? Penalizing you guys would be too obvious, so let’s say we stick it to the drivers by, I don’t know, say…10 grid positions?”

                            MANUFACTURERS: “BRILLIANT! We couldn’t have come up with a better plan if we’d tried!”

                            INDYCAR: “Well that was surprisingly easy. Next!”
                            http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-of-stupidity/

                            This rule and penalty needs rethought immediately IMHO. It's penalizing drivers, sponsors, and fans.
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                              Agree. It may have to wait until the supply overcomes the demand, though. I understand the spirit of the rule, but it's not working that way in real life.
                              http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                              "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: 2012 Indycar thread

                                If the engines were mature and reliable then the rule could make some sense to keep a lid on costs as well as keep teams from running qualifying engines, always racing on a fresh engine, etc.... But as it is teams are being penalized for the engines' growing pains and worse- the engine manufacturers aren't really penalized at all.

                                On top of that.... If you blow an engine in a race it's no penalty but if you blow it in testing it's a penalty? Yet, the chassis and engines need testing because they are new.

                                Somebody missed the boat on the implementation of this rule IMHO. The idea might be good but the timing of it and actual implementation is bad.
                                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                                ------

                                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                                -John Wooden

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X