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Thread: Please Start George Hill at point guard

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    Default Please Start George Hill at point guard

    I know that we lost two game to New York and I think the point guard defense is our problem. I like Collison, but his hight is allowing other team starting point guard to dominate at the beginng of the game. If he comes of the bench, he will be able to play agains reserve point guard and maybe even increase his production. I think ot it time for the change. Allow Hill to make another team poinguard to be uncomfortable from the get go.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    I agree, but simply from the standpoint of what do we have to lose at this point? If it doesn't work after a few game, DC can always be reinserted.
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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by russkiy View Post
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    I know that we lost two game to New York and I think the point guard defense is our problem. I like Collison, but his hight is allowing other team starting point guard to dominate at the beginng of the game. If he comes of the bench, he will be able to play agains reserve point guard and maybe even increase his production. I think ot it time for the change. Allow Hill to make another team poinguard to be uncomfortable from the get go.
    Do you think that will make Granger go better than 5 for 15 from the field and 1 for 6 from three point land? Granger is the key, not Collison......

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    I belive defense on point guard is very inportent. Granger's scoring can be offset by Roy and/or others. But stopping the starting point guard is a problem for a while now. Not much you can do about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Do you think that will make Granger go better than 5 for 15 from the field and 1 for 6 from three point land? Granger is the key, not Collison......

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    its hard to guard a guy that doesn't have to adhere to the traveling violation set in place by the NBA.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsTalkPacers View Post
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    its hard to guard a guy that doesn't have to adhere to the traveling violation set in place by the NBA.
    ok fair enough against Lin....but he gets beat most nights.
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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Please dont. Some of you people don't get the big picture.

    You can't have a 6th man tweener guard who excells at SG move into the starting PG spot without having more negatives than positives. It's working pretty well as is. We're Indiana, not a big market team, your gonna have to have a weak spot somewhere. You make the problem worse by changing the starting line like that.
    Last edited by Ownagedood; 03-18-2012 at 10:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Please dont. Some of you people don't get the big picture.

    You can't have a 6th man tweener guard who excells at SG move into the starting PG spot without having more negatives than positives. It's working pretty well as is. We're Indiana, not a big market team, your gonna have to have a weak spot somewhere. You make the problem worse by changing the starting line like that.


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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Please dont. Some of you people don't get the big picture.

    You can't have a 6th man tweener guard who excells at SG move into the starting PG spot without having more negatives than positives. It's working pretty well as is. We're Indiana, not a big market team, your gonna have to have a weak spot somewhere. You make the problem worse by changing the starting line like that.
    Jamaal Tinsley, and I'm not a fan of his, was a far better PG. Mark Jackson was clearly a much better PG. We've had better and/or mature talent at most positions on the team in fact. The team in the late 90's didn't have much of a weakness. JO/Artest's team was probably more talented than the late 90's team and very solid. No, I don't believe Indy needs to have a weak spot. We may not draw Laker and Celtic talent...maybe not Chicago and Miami either...but we can and will get better than this.

    Edit: as to whether the problem is worse by changing the starting lineup, I'm leaving that to Vogel to decide. Chemistry is at stake with that type of move and a trade might be a better option...depending.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-18-2012 at 10:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Please dont. Some of you people don't get the big picture.

    You can't have a 6th man tweener guard who excells at SG move into the starting PG spot without having more negatives than positives. It's working pretty well as is. We're Indiana, not a big market team, your gonna have to have a weak spot somewhere. You make the problem worse by changing the starting line like that.
    pretty well as is? Why do we have to settle with a weak spot? what kind of mentality is that?

    and it's not like Darren is much of a point to begin with...the guy doesn't even average 5 assists. The only thing he brings to the O is limited scoring or he'll pass it to Paul who'll find Roy or David down low himself. At least with Hill, you're guaranteed more stops on D and has the potential to be more of a scoring threat. I'd say distributing is a moot point because they're both scoring guards...

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    There's a lot of blame to go around on this, it's not just Collison. Plus, I think too many people put too much stock into who starts, it's about total minutes and who closes.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Ya, I get you want a better PG.. I would like one too. But what im saying is making a change with the players we already have isn't the answer. DC is a better PG than GH and he has more overall skills than Price. Our rotation is pretty good as is, if you change it, it's liable to get worse. There really isn't much of a way you can tweak it to make it better with the players we have. We can make a change in the off-season, but let's not try and take DC out of the lineup just because ppl don't like him, he's our most talented PG on the roster. Just bring GH in for spot mins at PG and put Price as the main backup, with GH and Barbosa backing up the 2.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Ya, I get you want a better PG.. I would like one too. But what im saying is making a change with the players we already have isn't the answer. DC is a better PG than GH and he has more overall skills than Price. Our rotation is pretty good as is, if you change it, it's liable to get worse. There really isn't much of a way you can tweak it to make it better with the players we have. We can make a change in the off-season, but let's not try and take DC out of the lineup just because ppl don't like him, he's our most talented PG on the roster. Just bring GH in for spot mins at PG and put Price as the main backup, with GH and Barbosa backing up the 2.
    It might not be the time to do it. So I agree with that. We do not want to upset chemistry which remains good. We will continue to win some games this year and have a shot at a better post season.

    But DC is not a better PG than George Hill. This is primarily because George is a much better defender and isn't so small. Offensively, I would also give the edge to George but that's purely my opinion. I think it goes without saying that a move has to be made this summer. IOW, this is the last year you are going to see DC start...unless we a) don't find a replacement AND b) George Hill walks.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    Ya, I get you want a better PG.. I would like one too. But what im saying is making a change with the players we already have isn't the answer. DC is a better PG than GH and he has more overall skills than Price. Our rotation is pretty good as is, if you change it, it's liable to get worse. There really isn't much of a way you can tweak it to make it better with the players we have. We can make a change in the off-season, but let's not try and take DC out of the lineup just because ppl don't like him, he's our most talented PG on the roster. Just bring GH in for spot mins at PG and put Price as the main backup, with GH and Barbosa backing up the 2.
    yes I understand that we're dealing with players that were already on the team...but when the people who play WITH them on the court completely change, it can make a difference. You never know, Hill may be able to do more with the starting unit and I feel (especially with Barbosa now) DC would play better with the second unit. I understand its 'liable to get worse' but it's not like we've been doing that great as of late. Why not at least try it out and it may potentially work out

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    I want an upgrade at the point as bad as the next fan but now is not the time to start Hill. The reason I say that is because I feel the Pagers absolutely must re-sigh both he and Barbosa. If starts the automatically we are giving other teams the green light to offer him stupid money that would be harder to match.

    If we could keep both Hill and Barbosa for somewhere between the 4-6mil range that keeps our bench in tact. Then we need to find the best trade for a starting caliber point guard we can get with DC Tyler and our 1st as the main bargaining chips.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    I am definitely in favor of starting Hill. Hill is a better all around player. Hill has played with these guys all season. Starting him is worth a shot, his defense will be needed in the playoffs. Plus our offense mostly consists of feeding Roy, I'm sure Hill is capable of that.
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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    There's a lot of blame to go around on this, it's not just Collison. Plus, I think too many people put too much stock into who starts, it's about total minutes and who closes.
    True, but we are notorious for getting off to slow starts.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Is the difference between DC and Hill that makes one a Point and the other a 'tweener' their size? Or the fact that Hill admits it?

    Do I think for a second Hill is a pure point? No

    But the same can be said for DC.

    That is not to say he is worthless, not by a long shot. But on the who starts at point guard debate I fail to see the downside; passing, initiating the offense, ball security, leadership, shooting, defense. DC probably has the edge in beating the press / on ball pressure but lets not pretend he is a vice with the ball even at the best of times.

    Hill at PG with the fulcrum of the offense being Roy in the post / granger & george on the wings and then barbosa and dc taking the offensive burden on the bench makes much more sense than the alternative.
    "He's a strong physical presence out there on both ends of the court. He's a man. There's a reason he was an All-Star." -- Vogel on David West

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Horrible idea. Did you not see Hill struggling to even bring the ball up against the defense? Collison is our best ball handler, and it isn't even close. If you put Hill with the starters the ball movement would stop and we would be stuck with a bunch of below average ball handlers on the court. Opposing defenses would love it, because they could completely stop our offense with great defense. What I have seen this year is we can't score against great defense very well, and when Hill is the point guard that problem is too much to overcome because no one on the floor can create for others.

    Hill can't handle the ball well enough to run the point, he doesn't have the moves, he sure can't set up or run an offense...Let's just face it, the dude is not nor will he ever be a legit option for starting point guard on our team. He is an undersized shooting guard and that's that.

    As many weaknesses Collison has and as much as he hurts the starting 5, he is still our best and only option to start there. Hill is just not capable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    There's a lot of blame to go around on this, it's not just Collison. Plus, I think too many people put too much stock into who starts, it's about total minutes and who closes.
    Doesn't matter who closes if u get down 20 in the first quarter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Collison is our best ball handler
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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Horrible idea. Did you not see Hill struggling to even bring the ball up against the defense? Collison is our best ball handler, and it isn't even close. If you put Hill with the starters the ball movement would stop and we would be stuck with a bunch of below average ball handlers on the court. Opposing defenses would love it, because they could completely stop our offense with great defense. What I have seen this year is we can't score against great defense very well, and when Hill is the point guard that problem is too much to overcome because no one on the floor can create for others.

    Hill can't handle the ball well enough to run the point, he doesn't have the moves, he sure can't set up or run an offense...Let's just face it, the dude is not nor will he ever be a legit option for starting point guard on our team. He is an undersized shooting guard and that's that.

    As many weaknesses Collison has and as much as he hurts the starting 5, he is still our best and only option to start there. Hill is just not capable.
    I'd rather have much better defense then a little better ball handling. Our team is flawed offensively regardless who starts at PG. Might as well just start locking people down again.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    I will even admit DC is our best ball handler. But so was TJ Ford and Travis Best. It didn't make them good PG's either although those guys could actually defend. DC can't even do that.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I will even admit DC is our best ball handler. But so was TJ Ford and Travis Best. It didn't make them good PG's either although those guys could actually defend. DC can't even do that.
    I don't know... it's close. Lance is stronger with the ball, he just makes a lot of bad decisions right now.

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    Default Re: Please Start George Hill at point guard

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I don't know... it's close. Lance is stronger with the ball, he just makes a lot of bad decisions right now.
    Lance is our best passer and might have more natural basketball skills than anyone on the team. I'd have to see him under pressure more to conclude he can dribble through pressure as well as Collison. FWIW, I would rather see Lance start at PG than DC. At least try it with the starters for 5 straight games to see what we have. If he falls on his face, set him aside for the season as a 3rd string spot minute backup. But I think the Pacers should at least try it. Only problem...this is a basketball view not a people view. Decisions are always more complicated than simply looking at the basketball skills and making a move. The dynamics of the locker room and other things all need to be taken into account and hardly anyone on this board is privy to it. So...even when the majority of posters probably think Hill should start over Collison, we don't know it all...

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