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Thread: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

  1. #26
    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    so is there any change in the ending at all if your galactic readiness score and military strength was very low?

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    so is there any change in the ending at all if your galactic readiness score and military strength was very low?
    The lower your EMS the fewer of the three endings you get to choose from.

    On an unrelated note, I couldn't be more upset with Bioware/EA after all of the blatant lies they fed their consumers. I as a responsible consumer will not support such business practices, so until they fulfill said promises (free of charge mind you) they have permanently lost a loyal customer and gained an enemy.

    On a second unrelated note, Amazon.com is offering full refunds for open copies of the game (if you purchased from them obviously). I mailed mine back yesterday.
    Last edited by D0NT SH0OT ME; 03-20-2012 at 04:24 AM.

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  4. #28

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    I don't get it: what's wrong with the game...it's emotionally driven and probably the most taxing (emotionally) I have ever played. At the end who doesnt want to yell "HOORAH COMMANDER"? Seriously, fanboys always want to complain about something but I thought it was a fitting end to possibly the greatest series in gaming history...

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    I don't get it: what's wrong with the game...it's emotionally driven and probably the most taxing (emotionally) I have ever played. At the end who doesnt want to yell "HOORAH COMMANDER"? Seriously, fanboys always want to complain about something but I thought it was a fitting end to possibly the greatest series in gaming history...
    The problem for me was that during the game every decision I was making was with the thought of consequences of what will happen in the finale - selecting the geth over the quarians/etc/etc all to push forward for the final battle and see how everything shapes up...instead we just got a short cameo from all our allies where we said our goodbyes and then basically had no boss fight (Marauder Shields was the last standing boss?!?)...

    Then to find out the other endings are the same as what you chose - it makes all those people who spent countless hours making various characters like they've wasted their time and energy - and I can understand where they are coming from.

    I only created one character and just watched the youtube vids about the other possibilities - take ME2's ending for example - if you didn't do the loyalty missions during the game - the end would be totally different - I was expecting similar consequences - instead we're just left with the same ending for all...

    Its almost as if they ran out of time/budget/etc and say we'll just use the same ending for all!

  6. #30
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Just wanted to pop in here and say I got to play a few more hours last night, so I'm getting closer.

    I see Greenwell's post above, and I have to agree with him, you can never please everyone. Someone will always want something to change.

    Saying Bioware blatantly lied is a bit of a stretch, there are technically 17 different endings, and already my choices in 1 & 2 have led me to experience 3 differently than others would which is really what Bioware has always been going for. If people actually bought into the idea that each person would get a completely unique ending, then they're idiots. 1 and 2 were not like that, yes different people could die in 2, but you all ended up in the same place, fighting the same boss, on the same ship. Well different people can and do die in 3.

    EDIT: To Bellisimo's point about people who make different characters, the ending may be similar, but how they arrive at the ending the EXPERIENCE, would be different for each character. Mass Effect has never been about the payoff, it's always been about the ride, I mean let's not act like the final boss fights in 1 and 2 were THAT memorable (maybe the cut scenes, but certainly not the actual fights, I mean the human-reaper larvae fight was one of the easiest "boss" fights in video game history). It's always been about the content leading up to that final moment in each of the games before 3, so I never expected 3 to be any different and so far it hasn't.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-20-2012 at 07:49 AM.

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  8. #31
    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    TJ - have you seen the end yet?
    I've heard about the complaints about everyone with regards to the final and I had set myself up to the point where I would've been happy with just a little glimmer of shine in the end - but to be honest...the way it went for me in terms of how I felt was like this:

    first 3 minutes - damn this is some emotional **** right here....
    3-8 minutes - hey this wasn't as bad as people were *****ing about
    10+ minutes - wait a minute - what the hell happened to everything else?

    in the first 10 minutes after finishing the game - I was still in that emotional state where it all made sense...but once that rush was gone - there were too many wtf? that popped up and continues to pop up the more i think about it...

    EDIT - having said all of that, I don't expect or demand a new ending from Bioware/etc - just take it as it is and hope that other game series will build on this style of story-telling and move forward.
    Last edited by bellisimo; 03-20-2012 at 08:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    No, I haven't completely beaten it, so my opinion may change. I guess I'm just frustrated there is so much complaining even if it was the worst ending to any piece of media of all time, this would still be one of the best video game trilogies ever, and maybe the best even still. That is how good the story telling has been throughout the series. Think about all the "Oh ****!" moments this series has given us. From finding out the collectors are Protheans, to the unmasking of Saren's ship in ME1. There are too many amazing moments in this series for me to even begin to think about criticizing Bioware.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    I actually thought the boss fight in 1 was pretty cool and hard as hell. 2, yeah, not so much.

    Kai Leng was fun. And, that's it. I mean, sure the last Banshee/Marauder fight was hard, but was essentially a multiplayer Reaper match. Then, dear god. Limp, bang-bang-bang, limp, limp, talk talk talk talk bang. And that's all before the kid and the last 10 minutes.
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  11. #34
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Joe, I would warn you I've read a lot of people say they felt the same way before they finished it. I didn't feel Bioware was above criticism (I never liked Dragon Age), but KoTOR is arguably my favorite game ever, and I played through ME1 and 2 a good 5 times each.

    If nothing else, you've been hardened enough that you won't be blindsided by the ending. And hey, maybe you'll love it like some people do. Just don't go into it expecting, since the whole series has been so great, that the ending will live up to that standard.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Oh I don't think Bioware is above criticism. I hated Dragon Age. I just think the Mass Effect story arc is bloody brilliant, but, yes, I realize I need to beat it. Damn work is standing in my way. I still have really no idea what has happened in the ending, I mean I see bits and pieces but for all I know perhaps a giant race of super monkeys shows up and destroys the galaxy at this point. I just know people apparently don't like it.

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    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-20-2012 at 09:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Mass Effect is like going to a fine restaurant and having a 7 course meal which is all great till its time for dessert - and while you're looking for a delicious cake to finish it all up, you're given a cake that tastes like *insert something which you don't like here*

    basically its the sour taste of the end which people are complaining about.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    I don't get it: what's wrong with the game...it's emotionally driven and probably the most taxing (emotionally) I have ever played. At the end who doesnt want to yell "HOORAH COMMANDER"? Seriously, fanboys always want to complain about something but I thought it was a fitting end to possibly the greatest series in gaming history...
    This is more than just "fanboys" complaining about the ending. The vast majority of people hate the ending. Keep in mind this is a poll with a sample size of 60,000+. Most national polls only have a sample size of 1 to 5 thousand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Just wanted to pop in here and say I got to play a few more hours last night, so I'm getting closer.

    I see Greenwell's post above, and I have to agree with him, you can never please everyone. Someone will always want something to change.

    Saying Bioware blatantly lied is a bit of a stretch, there are technically 17 different endings, and already my choices in 1 & 2 have led me to experience 3 differently than others would which is really what Bioware has always been going for. If people actually bought into the idea that each person would get a completely unique ending, then they're idiots. 1 and 2 were not like that, yes different people could die in 2, but you all ended up in the same place, fighting the same boss, on the same ship. Well different people can and do die in 3.

    EDIT: To Bellisimo's point about people who make different characters, the ending may be similar, but how they arrive at the ending the EXPERIENCE, would be different for each character. Mass Effect has never been about the payoff, it's always been about the ride, I mean let's not act like the final boss fights in 1 and 2 were THAT memorable (maybe the cut scenes, but certainly not the actual fights, I mean the human-reaper larvae fight was one of the easiest "boss" fights in video game history). It's always been about the content leading up to that final moment in each of the games before 3, so I never expected 3 to be any different and so far it hasn't.
    Bioware blatantly lied, that is not a stretch in any way, shape, or form.

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  15. #38
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    I agree with a lot of this article from Rock, Paper, Shotgun:

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...ect-3s-ending/

    What's Right With Mass Effect 3's Ending

    The obsession with endings is a peculiar one. Perhaps it’s a result of having been indoctrinated by a lifetime of movies with “surprise twists”, or stories so poorly written that they rely on their final hook. But however we’ve come to this place, it’s one that fails to recognise the real pleasure of being told a story. Mass Effect 3 tells a story, and I’m here to defend it.

    Clearly this post contains spoilers. All of them.

    Another trap gamers have fallen into is the sheer disgust with which the notion of “being told a story” is met. The distinction with gaming, you see, is you get to make choices, and those choices have consequences, and thus the game is unique to us. That notion makes sense in a game like Minecraft, but applying it to narrative, pre-scripted projects like the Mass Effect series is just naive. Even in a game like Dragon Age, where our choices lead to what feels like a unique conclusion just for us, we still fought the same big dragon, still followed the exact same path, and merely received cosmetic differences, none unique but shared by tens/hundreds of thousands of others. And that’s great! Because BioWare had a story to tell, and they were going to tell it.

    I feel like so many of people’s complaints about Mass Effect 3′s apparent lack of consequence would have been addressed by something as tacky as Dragon Age’s flash-card descriptions of what had happened to the characters in your party. Like an Eighties movie freeze-framing at the end and telling us who went on to discover a cure for cancer, and who finally settled down and had three kids, it certainly gives an immediately satisfying sense of closure, and perhaps would have dealt with a lot of the grumbling. But I’d argue it robs the player of so much potential for those characters. “Grunt went on to form a band, Grunt And The Tube Babies, who had 91 top ten hits in the Galactic Billboard, thanks to Shepard’s love and support.” I loved and supported Grunt! That means my choices were meaningful!

    But here’s the thing: My choices did have consequences. So many, on so many of the characters, in so many ways. It’s just, those consequences occurred on my long path toward the ending. And, well, that’s bloody brilliant, isn’t it?

    Many are upset by the final moments, a three-way decision that is not impacted upon by the rest of the game, as if this invalidates everything that came before it. But two things. 1) What about everything that came before it? 2) How is that decision not impacted upon by the previous three games?!

    A choice I made wiped out an entire species. Unable to choose the Quarians’ wrath over the Geth’s capitulation, I was unaware that giving them the option to choose would mean seeing them wiped out of existence. Even less that Tali would throw herself off a cliff in understandable suicidal misery. And that choice, that decision to give the freshly sentient Geth my support, had one hell of a consequence on the galaxy. In that final battle the Geth fought alongside the Alliance forces, something that would have seemed impossible at the end of Mass Effect 1. The Quarian were all dead, every last one of them. My actions had consequences, and they were beyond huge.

    I forged cooperation between the Krogan and the Turians. I’ve no idea if that’s a pre-scripted inevitability, or the result of my choices, and crucially I don’t care. As a result of what I did, however it came about, another remarkable change occurred in the galaxy. One with enormously far-reaching consequences. I saw the Salarians, albeit unwillingly, give the Krogan life. My involvement saw that real, extraordinary change occur, whether a race was broken free from a curse that would have seen them wiped out. I made the decision that even though there may be terrible consequences, this species deserved the right to breed.

    Those are some of the massive consequences my actions had. Then there were the dozens and dozens of minor, more personal ones. The relationships I forged, the people I loved, the comments I made. They all influenced not only the on-going relationships with other characters, but so crucially, the moments themselves. By choosing to be supportive rather than strict, the instance of that conversation changed, the tone was a consequence of my actions, and the reactions of others were changed in context. Because I choose to shoot down the advances of Traynor, I didn’t have a sexual relationship with her. Because I opted to be supportive of Joker and EDI’s relationship, they found love. Because I said a kind thing, rather than a cruel thing to Liara, she felt good in a moment, rather than bad.

    Characters I almost ignored, like James Vega and Ashley Williams, still were impacted by my presence in their lives, and mine was impacted by them. I encouraged Vega to join the N7. I teased Ashley when she was hungover, rather than admonished. And while all those things may have made no difference to whether the Reapers were defeated, of course they had consequences on my game. Consequences in those instances, affecting my story and toning my experience.

    But what about those final three choices. Yes, of course, they were a strange way to finish. But to suggest that they were out of the blue is absolutely untrue. And to write off the “ghost boy” is to make the same sad mistake that so many do with the beach scene in Contact, when we see Ellie’s father. An alien/god choosing to appear in a meaningful form obviously does not mean it is that thing. The Catalyst appearing as that small boy could hardly have been more established by the game, via three separate dream sequences that demonstrated quite what a devastating effect his death had had on Shepard. He came to represent all the terrible deaths on Earth, and indeed throughout the galaxy, that Shepard was unable to stop. He haunted her dreams because he was the catalyst for her fear and drive. (Although you could argue that he himself did get used up in the reaction.) For the Catalyst to choose his form to appear to Shepard made sense – it was designed to create an emotional reaction in her, to represent the potential for gain after so much loss.

    And then the choices themselves. Of course anyone is welcome to dislike the options, or dislike that they’re there at all, but to suggest they’re not relevant to the games isn’t fair. There was certainly a failure to properly define that it all comes down to the creation of Synthetics, and their eventual destruction of Organics, and I am confused by how an apparently ancient Synthetic race is the one arguing this. But as Shepard herself appeals, this is the result of an ancient race having lost its way. They firmly believe that what they do is for the good of the galaxy, and that they’re preserving these races in Reaper form, but they do not see how evil their actions have become. They’re wrong. But they’re wrong from a position of enormous power, and it’s a power that not only dominates the worlds of Mass Effect, but also the player. Those three choices – those are what you get, from a wayward god-like species that’s in control. Don’t like the options? Hell, maybe that’s the point.

    My choice – to choose synthesis – was utterly and completely influenced by the three games I’d played. I had seen the potential, the evolution of the Geth into a race capable of independent choice, the relationship between an AI and a human, and the possibility of a massive uniting step forward from a repeating pattern that had gone on for countless aeons. It may be sci-fi hokum that it’s possible, it may spring from nowhere that a big wobbly green light could turn all robots and humans into robothumans. But I was cool with Mass Effect Relays transporting me millions of lightyears around the galaxy in only the time it took for one maddeningly unskippable cutscene to play through. I’m okay with made up sci-fi nonsense in my made up sci-fi nonsense.

    The consequence of having played three superb games – games in which I’d felt relationships with characters like in nothing else I’ve played – played out in that choice.

    I commented to others as I played the game over the last week how exciting it was that decisions I’d made five years ago were having an impact on the story I was being told now. My being able to continue a relationship with Garrus was a joy, and made a huge difference to how I experienced the game. The races I’d saved being present at the end, fighting alongside me, was more important to me than whether it actually made any difference to what happened.

    I’ve played each game in the series once. At around 30 hours a time, that’s plenty for me. So I’ve not dissected them like a detached scientist, analysing which parts would have been the same no matter what I did. I find it so remarkable that so much of people’s fury with the game comes not in what they experienced, but what they learned about their experience after. For me, I filled up that bar with green, I made the choices that mattered to me, and in those final scenes I saw thousands and thousands of ships turn up to fight for Earth. That was my experience as I played, and I adored it. It was dark, brutal, often devastating. It was funny, silly and often heart-warming. In the end, it was the story of a small group of friends, and their particular experience of the end of the worlds. A story about the hope to be found in utter devastation.

    The ending may not have matched up to your wishes. Despite my vociferous support for it, I can empathise with a number the arguments. But it was not a denial of choice or consequence –it was a series of three games about choice and consequence, the two happening constantly throughout. And good grief, thank goodness it didn’t fade to black and leave everything ambiguous, with just enough room for 900 more sequels.

  16. #39
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

    To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare

    As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

    I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

    Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.

    To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

    Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

    The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

    Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.

    If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

    Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.
    Ray
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    I find it extremely hard to believe that a game that has over 90 perfect scores is so majorly flawed...in life people want to have something to complain about...mass effect 3 just blew it's creative wad on the second game, and I will have to say, it was pretty much as good as I expected. I have played all 3 games, I have picked them up the days they came out...I loved it, I still Iove it...

  18. #41
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Sorry, I've got enough in life to complain about. I loved the first two games, I wanted and fully expected to love this one, too. And I did, except for the last half hour. You can say I shouldn't let it bother me and move on, and maybe you're right. All I know is I fully planned on playing through this one a good 4-5 times like I did the first two. Now I have zero interest in doing so, and that depresses the hell out of me.
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  20. #42

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    Workin on a surviving playthrough...

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Stumbled upon this. Guy's a little pompus, especially the first few minutes. Guess he's got some schtick to maintain, but this is still an excellent summation of the problems people have. It's certainly long, and I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he still does a much better job articulating my feelings than I ever could.

    In my head I knew it was the case, but it was so depressing to see the side-by-side comparison of the cut-scenes near the end.

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  23. #44
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    you know what I realized? MASS EFFECT is pretty much the same ride as LOST was!

  24. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    you know what I realized? MASS EFFECT is pretty much the same ride as LOST was!
    Lol except before the end we had a semblance of what's going on...still think it was all a dream, going to have a fight beyond fights in 4...l

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    I'm watching IGN's spoilercast, and I must say, they're making a compelling case for the Indroctination argument.

    http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/03/23...-3-spoilercast
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  27. #47

    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Umm... still wanna return your copy, guy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

    Brilliant.

  28. #48
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    Sorry, I liked this a lot better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoster View Post
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    Umm... still wanna return your copy, guy?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

    Brilliant.
    DANG, I figured it would be something like that. MIND BLOWN.

  30. #50
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3 spoiler discussion

    You guys have to watch this video. Take the time...



    Why haven't you watched it? Seriously this makes sense of the ending, and what may come.

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