Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

  1. #1
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,358

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...e-value-part-1

    Worth a read every year. His words on Paul George are exactly right. People won't like his thoughts on Danny Granger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Simmons
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    29. Paul George

    The best stage for a rising young star: That "new car smell" phase when you haven't been paid big money yet (but it's coming), you go for too much in every fantasy auction, your rookie cards are worth twice as much as they should be, you're measured by your potential (not the actual results), everyone remembers your good games/moments (and not your bad games/moments), you're playing in the right situation for the right team, you're undeniably overvalued … only nobody cares, because you'll have these moments/sequences/games that make people say, "That dude is GOING places."
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to BRushWithDeath For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,296

    Default Simmons' Annual Trade Value Article

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...e-value-part-1

    Part 2's up later today:

    Bill Simmons

    I just spent two solid weeks figuring out where Jeremy Lin should be ranked in the annual "Who has the highest NBA trade value?" column. I asked my friends, coworkers and bosses. I asked NBA employees. I asked Knicks fans. I asked my Asian American friends, people dating Asian Americans, and anyone I knew named Jeremy. Heck, I even asked Jeremy Lin himself. Here was Jeremy's actual take.

    "I'm hoping that I'm more valuable than the 467th best player in the league, and thankful if it happens because my trainer kept yelling '467!' every time I got tired during workouts!"

    See? Even Jeremy doesn't really know. How can you assess the trade value of a rising star/walking sports movie/nine-figure cash cow/cultural icon? How can you ask, "What would it take for the Knicks to trade Jeremy Lin?" when the answer is, "Sorry, there's no f-ing way the Knicks would trade Jeremy Lin." And even then … would they ever in a million years trade Jeremy Lin? Would Jimmy Chitwood get traded? Would Rudy Ruettinger get traded? Would Roy Hobbs get traded? When you catch lightning in a bottle, you don't shake the bottle, take the cap off and hope it happens again.


    And so Jeremy Lin became the first player to defy the spirit of this column. I wrote it, anyway, only needing 12 viewings of John Tesh's "Roundball Rock" (the official Trade Value anthem) to get my confidence back. You rattled me, Jeremy Lin, but you didn't break me. As always, I spent three weeks crafting dozens of different lists, getting input from The Committee Who Shall Not Be Named, repeatedly getting into e-mail fights about things like, "You can't tell me that the Lakers wouldn't trade Andrew Bynum for Marc Gasol, you just can't!!!!!!!!" and "I would rather marinate my testicles in sulfuric acid than put Tyreke Evans on this list."

    Here's who got bumped from last year's top 50 list: DeJuan Blair (no. 50 last year) had a spirited "who knows, maybe he can play 15 years with no ACLs!" campaign lose luster when Brandon Roy's no-cartilege bid disintegrated … Danny Granger (44) is the captain of the "Guys Paid Like Franchise Players Who Aren't Franchise Players" All-Stars … Kevin Martin (43) is like a bottle of scotch: It's more fun to regift him than to keep him … there are 65 million reasons why Nene (42) didn't make it … Luis Scola (41) hasn't been the same post-Veto (couldn't you say that about all of us?) … we might need to introduce Andrew Bogut (40) to Phoenix's training staff soon … David West (33) lost an ACL and Chris Paul … Lamar Odom (31) proved he wasn't kidding when he turned down Portland's lucrative free agent offer in 2010 by saying, "You don't understand, I need to live near the beach" … Carlos Boozer (29) spray-paints his own hairline … Kevin Garnett (28) looks like "The Ageless KG" some nights and "The Washed-Up KG" other nights … and Amar'e Stoudemire (20) is 27 months away from legally changing his name to "Amar'e's Expiring Contract."

    One note before we get to this year's toughest omissions:1 Once upon a time, I could barely scrape together 40 good players for this column, as we found out when the 2006 edition pegged Shawn Livingston at no. 27. This year? I easily could have slapped together a top 60. The league hasn't been this loaded for 19 solid years. We're in a good place. Here are my toughest omissions from "least tough" to "toughest":

    Taj Gibson: Making one-seventh as much as Boozer, only every time he comes in for Boozer, it's like subbing an ISDN line for a dial-up. How would Gibson fare playing 35 minutes a night? It's unclear. Stay tuned for "More Things That Will Be Answered When Chicago Amnesthizes Boozer This Summer" right after this.

    Trevor Booker: Sorry, I have a weakness for him.

    Kenneth Faried: My favorite sneaky-good rookie from a likably eclectic rookie class, narrowly edging Enes Kanter, Jan Vesely, Nik Vucevic and Isaiah "Jimmer This!" Thomas.2 Remember when Faried was advertised pre-draft as an energy rebounder/defender who gave you young legs off the bench, nothing more, nothing less? That's EXACTLY what he is. He's like Safe House — you saw the trailer, you knew what to expect, then you saw the movie and came out of it thinking, That's exactly 100 percent what I expected!

    Brook Lopez: His rebounds-per-game dwindled from 8.7 (2010) to 5.9 (last year) to 3.6 (this year). I wouldn't care except for the part that, you know, he plays center. Dwight Howard averages more rebounds per quarter. Let's all stop pretending those two names can exist in the same trade. Thanks.3

    JaVale McGee: My wife rescued a sweet (and historically ugly) dog named Olivia who always slinks around our house like she did something wrong. If you say her name in a mean way, she'll immediately collapse to the ground in a puddle. There's just too much residual damage from her pre-rescue days. I feel like we're getting close to that point with JaVale: He's been stuck on a rudderless lottery team for years, with damaging results — a shame because the league isn't exactly overflowing with big guys who protect the rim. JaVale could have easily been "The Rich Man's DeAndre Jordan" on the right team. Instead, he's destined to be "The Underappreciated Leaper With Raw Tools Who Can't Help Doing Two Supernaturally Dumb Things Per Month and Has Been a Godsend for Sports Blogs." Too bad.4

    Nicolas Batum: The geek-friendly teams (San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, etc.) have circled him for years, fully expecting him to become Battier 2.0 on the right contender. He's getting an offer sheet next July that will make you say, "Wait … WHAT?????" Be prepared.

    Monta Ellis: He's underqualified to be one of the best two guys on a contender and overqualified to become a more polished version of Jason Terry in Dallas (an Irrational Confidence Guy Deluxe). Where does that leave us for someone making $11 million a year? I don't know.5

    Tyreke Evans: When somebody makes a documentary about the 2011-12 Kings, it's either going to be called The Sacramento Black Holes, Tyreke Takes It Himself or Wide Open: The Chuck Hayes Story. And the trailer is definitely going to have Paul Westphal or Keith Smart screaming Norman Dale-style, "What did I tell you guys? I want no passes before every shot! You hear me? NO PASSES!"

    Al Jefferson: Can't decide if Al's recent revelation, "Hey, it's taken me eight years to realize that if I pass the ball outside and guys hit open shots, it helps free me up, I guess better late than never" should move him higher or lower.

    Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng, Rudy Gay: Quality starters getting paid like franchise guys. Deng was the toughest omission — not only is he playing splendidly, I can't remember the last time a radical haircut transformed my opinion of someone this dramatically. You might have to go back to Demi Moore in Ghost.

    Joakim Noah: The bad news: Making $60 million through 2016 … and we have no idea if the Bulls can survive offensively playing Noah in crunch time in June. The good news: He's played better after a botched attempt to sabotage his own trade value in the Dwight Howard talks. The great news: It's really fun to Photoshop his hair on other NBA players. As we're going to prove in Part 2 of this column.

    Ersan Ilyasova: We're omitting this kooky DNA hybrid of Ivan Drago, James Franco, Josh Hartnett, Kevin McHale, Lurch and That Guy From Boardwalk Empire only because he's an unrestricted free agent this summer, making him impossible to assess for trade value purposes (especially when he's making just $2.541 million this year). Ilsh6 will have to settle for running away with 2012's "Random Free Agent Pickup Who Single-handedly Swung Your Fantasy League's Title," "What the Hell Just Happened in This Box Score????" and "Seriously, WHAT THE $%#@ IS GOING ON HERE!!!!!!!!!" awards.

    Tony Allen: The league's best perimeter defender (it's true) and contract bargain (two years, $6.3 million), as well as someone who improbably shed "Trick or Treat Tony" status (he's just Tony now) and made Celtics fans say things like, "I wish we had Tony Allen" (also true). Why I love the conceit of this column — there's no way Memphis would rather pay Iguodala or Deng $14 million a year than Tony Allen $3 million a year. None.

    Nikola Pekovic: This year's toughest omission. I didn't want to go overboard about six legitimately inspired weeks … but jeez, when he's giving us 17 points, 10 rebounds every night, thriving on high screens and banging bodies while carrying himself with the same nasty, Eastern Euro intensity of one of the bad guys in Taken, and he's doing it for just $4.5 million this year and $4.8 million next year, what more do you need?7

    On to the top 50 …

    GROUP N: "I Wouldn't Take This Call If I Knew He Was Definitely Sticking Around"

    50. Ryan Anderson
    Remember my December column about the Salary Cap Fantasy League? Would you enjoy paying $2.24 million this season for a guy who plays 31 minutes a game, averages 16.5 points and 7.5 rebounds, makes 43 percent of his 3s (and takes 6.7 per game!) and 86 percent of his free throws and plays with the effectiveness of an obscenely rich man's Steve Novak? I thought so.8

    49. Roy Hibbert
    Like Anderson, a restricted free agent next summer. I love paying Roy Hibbert $2.59 million this year. I would not love paying Roy Hibbert $13 million next year.


    48. Josh Smith
    The original JWOWW needs a new team, new fans and a creative point guard who understands his fundamental need to slam home alley-oops with the sustained fury of a pregnant Jessica Simpson housing a box of doughnuts. Did you know the Hawks are paying $46 million to three guys next year (Smith, Al Horford and Joe Johnson)? See where I'm going with this? TRADE!!!!!!!!!

    Only one problem: Josh Smith trades never seem to work. Who says no to Smith for Brook Lopez and Memo Okur's Expiring Deal? (Answer: The Hawks.) Who says no to Pau Gasol for Josh Smith, Tracy McGrady and Kirk Hinrich? (Answer: The Lakers.) Who says no to Atlanta saving $20 million next season by dealing Smith and Marvin Williams to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison's expiring contract? (Answer: The Hawks. But they definitely had a two-hour meeting about it.) What about the same Smith/Williams package for KG's expiring deal? (Answer: Probably Boston … if only because Danny Ainge took a designer drug that makes him think he can sign Dwight Howard this summer.) Who says no to a "Derrick Williams and the Anthony Randolph/Anthony Tolliver expirings for Josh Smith" swap? (Answer: Minnesota. But you know who says yes? YouTube!!! Rubio teamed up with Josh Smith????) There's never been a player thrown into more failed Trade Machine deals than Josh Smith.

    GROUP M: "Sorry We're Being Irrational, It's Just That We Don't Want Him to Come Back and Haunt Us"

    47. Derrick Favors
    46. Evan Turner
    Let's see … Philly needs to get bigger … Utah needs to get better on the perimeter … both teams have talented no. 2 overall picks who aren't playing enough … both teams are a little too attached to those guys … the Trade Machine approves … (can't we just call this one in????)

    45. Eric Gordon
    Would you trade Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, Goran Dragic, Lamar Odom and New York's 2012 no. 1 pick (probably 21st overall) for Gordon, Al Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's 2012 no. 1 pick (probably 19th overall)? Sure … if you were intentionally trying to suck all kinds of suck. Stay classy, David Stern.9

    GROUP L: "Unsung Heroes With Favorable Contracts"

    44. Ty Lawson
    43. Paul Millsap
    Everyone pounded the "Lawson is underrated!!!!" angle so violently that he became slightly overrated for someone who gives a fringe playoff team a 16-7 with 47/32/81 shooting splits and a couple of look-how-freaking-fast-he-is highlights per game. Just don't expect Millsap to give up that "So Underrated He's Slightly Overrated" belt anytime soon — not when he's averaging a 15-9 every game, making big shots for an overachieving team, and wielding a favorable contract ($16.4 million total through next season) and even more favorable PER ranking (this year: 16th overall). He's called "The Underrated Paul Millsap" pretty much as a rule at this point. All of this worries me — once you become overrated for being underrated, bad things ensue. Just ask Ben Wallace (overpaid by Chicago, never the same) and David West (blew out his knee). Tread carefully, Paul Millsap.

    42. Danilo Gallinari
    Every Knicks fan just grunted out loud, stared sadly at the screen for a few seconds, then thought back fondly to the MSG announcer yelling "Danilo Gallinarrrrrrrrrri!" with his fake Italian accent after a Gallinari 3. They had a weakness for Gallo, the same way I have a weakness for any news stories about serial killers or point shaving scandals. If a serial killer ever shaved points, it would be all over — I wouldn't be able to function. Wait, where were we?

    41. Tyson Chandler10
    40. Anderson Varejao
    I'd rather have Chandler, but his contract (four years, $55.4 million) and facial hair (that goofy Fidel Castro look) isn't nearly as favorable as Varejao's contract (four years, $34.8 million) and haircut (the throwback Sideshow Bob look). Of course …

    39. Marcin Gortat
    Paying just $21.7 million through 2014 for a true center averaging a 16-11 with 56 percent shooting? Sign me up.11 This had a chance to become Otis Smith's shrewdest signing ever, only he messed it up by flipping Gortat into $58.8 million of Hedo Turkoglu and Jason Richardson. Otis Smith, everybody! He's the Reverse Black Friday — instead of everything being 50 percent off, it's 220 percent on.

    38. Kyle Lowry
    Killer value ($17.5 million total through 2014) for a quality point guard (16-7-5, 39 percent 3FG, elite defense). Let's have a round of applause for Dork Elvis — he basically traded Carl Landry, Rafer Alston, Aaron Brooks, a washed-up Tracy McGrady and Vassilis Spanoulis12 for Lowry, Martin, Scola, Dragic, Jordan Hill, the no. 23 pick in 2011 and New York's 2012 no. 1 pick. Also, did you know Houston is the only above-.500 team without a lottery pick in its nine-man rotation (much less starting for it)? Bill lemme know what else you need or if this paragraph will suffice. Good seeing you in Boston. Thanks, Daryl.

    (Whoops, I forgot to take that last part out. Sorry about that.)

    GROUP K: "Sorry, It's Been Crazy Around Here … Actually, Can I Call You Back?"

    37. Zach Randolph
    Let's go inside the Grizzlies' war room …

    Chris Wallace: "Should we quietly shop Z-Bo when he comes back from his knee injury?"

    Assistant GM no. 1 [nodding]: "We're 22-12 without him."

    Wallace: "And we don't want to pay Z-Bo, Gay, Conley and Gasol a combined $224.2 million through 2015 — "

    Assistant GM no. 2: "Hold on, hold on … are you crazy? The five best players in last year's playoffs were LeBron, Dirk, Wade, Durant and Z-Bo! If he's even 80 percent back this spring, we can beat anyone in the West. We're a matchup nightmare! NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY US!13

    [Everyone falls silent.]

    Wallace: "You're right, let's ride him this spring, make a run at the title and shop him this summer. Anything else?"

    Assistant GM no. 2: "Yeah, the league office called — they said that, no matter what happens this season, you're still ineligible to win 'Executive of the Year' because you picked Hasheem Thabeet over James Harden and Ricky Rubio."

    36. Steve Nash
    I don't blame the Suns anymore. I blame Nash. I think he's afraid to get traded. I think he likes toiling away on mediocre teams, playing that martyr role and having everyone feel sorry for him. Poor Steve Nash! Look what the Suns did to him! We have to get Nash out of there! #freestevenash Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of playing in the playoffs anymore. Maybe he'd rather bang out meaningless regular seasons, go traveling during the playoffs and save himself two months of wear and tear. Maybe he's hiding behind this whole "leaders don't sell out their teammates by asking for a trade" thing. Maybe he's just being a coward.

    (By the way, I don't believe any of this — I just wanted to use a little reverse psychology to get Nash to ask for a trade because Phoenix is obviously too cowardly to accommodate him. I'm at wit's end. Don't you want him in the playoffs?)

    35. Stephen Curry
    Fell 15 spots from last year's list purely for "All right, what's really going on with Curry's right ankle?" reasons. That's one of the top-five conversation topics in NBA circles right now, along with "Why do the players hate Rondo so much?," "What are you hearing about Dwight?," "What are the Lakers going to do?" and "Did we ever figure out why Al Jefferson has a 38-year-old girlfriend????" So what's the answer? Is this a potential Grant Hill situation? Do the Warriors have the worst trainer/medical situation on the planet? Is Nike slipping? Are Curry's ankles made of papier-mâché? If there was a pay-per-view special of Curry getting an MRI on his right ankle, followed by Phoenix's medical staff breaking down the results, I think I'd pay $49.99 to watch it.

    The good news for Warriors fans: Their team made a $500 million mistake by choosing Charles Jenkins over Jeremy Lin on December 8 (it's true, look it up), then wasted its amnesty on $4 million of Charlie Bell so they could overpay DeAndre Jordan with an offer sheet (didn't work), leaving them stuck with Andris "Why Didn't You Amnesthize and Put Me Out of My Own Misery????" Biedrins (owed $9 million each of the next two years) and little cap flexibility this summer. Oh, wait, that's horrible news. Speaking of Linsanity …

    GROUP J: "We'll Consider It If You Throw in 500 Million Dollars"

    34. Jeremy Lin
    This feels about right. It's certainly better than being ranked between Sean Marks and Zabian Dowdell.

    GROUP I: "The Young Guns"

    33. James Harden
    Even if it's about eight spots too high, I'm using this year's "I Know This Is Weird, I Just Like Him" immunity idol on him.14 Just know that, as a Celtics fan, it's hard to watch Harden without thinking of the days before the Perkins/Green trade, when Sam Presti sucked Danny Ainge in with the old, "I know we were talking about Harden for Perkins all week, and I know you were banking on the deal happening, and I know you already cleared the deal from your end with Doc and everyone else, but the more I'm thinking about it, I just can't do it … what about Jeff Green?" move. A Boston buddy of mine described it perfectly: It was like Costco drawing you to the store with a "50 Percent Off All Televisions!" sign, then picking out a state-of-the-art TV and going to pay, only to have them tell you, "No, no, that deal only counts for last year's models." Only at that point, you're already in the store and ready to buy something. Only bad things can happen after that.

    (One silver lining: I pull this move on my wife all the time. Honey, I know we said we were getting dressed up and going to dinner on Sunday night, and I know you were banking on it, but I just can't do it … what about going to the Clippers-Warriors instead?")

    32. Mystery Player A
    Hold this thought until Part Two.


    31. Derrick Williams
    Remember when the Celtics panic-traded rookies Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson for immediate help, then everyone collectively realized you shouldn't trade lottery picks after slow starts? That mind-set wavered when struggling top-six picks like Darko Milicic, Jonny Flynn, Wesley Johnson and Thabeet weren't traded in time and lost their value, causing some teams to simultaneously think last month, Maybe the Timberwolves will be dumb enough to give up on Derrick Williams! and KAHHHHHHHHHHHHHN!!!!!!! Nope. Not after this box score happened.15

    30. Hasheem Thabeet
    Just kidding.

    30. John Wall
    As you know, I'm the longtime chairman of the "Is He a Point Guard or Not?" committee. (It's kind of like how Tip O'Neill was the Speaker of the House for all those years — you never knew how it happened, just that it was.) My verdict on Wall: He's a breathtaking athlete who has little to no idea how to run a team, lead his guys, make teammates better, ride hot hands, control the tempo of a game or do anything else that, say, Chris Paul does on a nightly basis. It's also a terrible sign that, for two straight years, Wall hasn't affected Washington's win-loss record really at all.16 Then again, could there have been a worse situation for a young point guard than the post-Arenas Blatche/McGee/Saunders Wizards? I wouldn't trade him … but I wouldn't trade for him, either. To be continued.

    Hold on, it's time for a tangent: During Dorkapalooza 2012 in Boston last weekend, Seattle Sounders owner Drew Carey mentioned his favorite brainstorm, followed by me being practically paralyzed with idea envy. The idea? Carey wants to have Sounders fans vote for his team's president every four years. You know, like a presidential election. Is that brilliant or what? If there hadn't been 2,000 witnesses, I would have Zuckerberged the idea for myself. I just love it.

    Anyway, we know the Wizards are hiring a new GM this summer; we know owner Ted Leonsis loves thinking outside the box; and we know the Wizards have no chance of being relevant in a "getting Kornheiser and Wilbon talking about them in the first five minutes of 'PTI'" kind of way unless they have another gun incident or JaVale McGee enters a game without shorts (which might happen, don't rule it out). Can you think of a better NBA team to say, "Screw it, let's have our fans vote for our team's GM every four years"? Why not? How would this NOT become one of the biggest sports stories of the year? And should I hire a campaign manager right now to be safe?

    29. Paul George
    28. Sergeballu LaMu Sayonga Loom Walahas Jonas Hugo Ibaka
    The best stage for a rising young star: That "new car smell" phase when you haven't been paid big money yet (but it's coming), you go for too much in every fantasy auction, your rookie cards are worth twice as much as they should be, you're measured by your potential (not the actual results), everyone remembers your good games/moments (and not your bad games/moments), you're playing in the right situation for the right team, you're undeniably overvalued … only nobody cares, because you'll have these moments/sequences/games that make people say, "That dude is GOING places."


    27. Al Horford
    [Cut to Al Horford nodding wistfully.]

    FOR PART TWO OF BILL'S ANNUAL TRADE VALUE COLUMN, COME BACK TO GRANTLAND AT 4:30 P.M. EST

    FOOTNOTES

    Here's the honorable honorable mention: Mike Conley (what were the odds Conley would be a better pro career than Greg Oden in 2007?); Brandon Jennings and Jrue Holiday (both young and hungry); DeAndre Jordan and Omer Asik (you always need centers); and Granger and Andrea Bargnani (good starters getting paid like signature guys).

    The most eclectic rookie: New Jersey's MarShon Brooks, a two-guard who somehow has a complicated back-to-the-basket game already. He's right out of 1978. Yes, I would trade JaJuan Johnson straight up for him. Don't get me started.

    Random five-team fake trade: Portland gets Steve Nash and Johan Petro; Phoenix gets Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins's sucky contract (expires 2014); Golden State gets three Stanford guys (Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez and Josh Childress's sucky contract, which expires 2015); New Jersey gets Portland's no. 1 pick and Ray Felton; Lakers get Jordan Farmar. [Waiting.] Fine, I'll keep tinkering.

    I wrote this section before Kevin Seraphin lit up the Lakers with JaVale watching from the bench.

    An Ellis/Dorrell Wright for Danny Granger/Dahntay Jones trade makes so much sense that the salaries even add up to within $108,000 of each other. I'm just sayin'.

    The Bucks announcers affectionately call him "Ilsh." I shouldn't know these things.

    David Kahn is becoming White Joe Dumars — either he's making a shrewd move (Rubio, Pekovic, J.J. Barea, Michael Beasley, Rick Adelman) or a lousy one (Johnny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Martell Webster, Darko's last contract, Kurt Rambis, only re-signing Love for three years instead of five) with no in-between.

    Otis Smith landed Ryan Anderson as a throw-in for the Vince Carter trade with New Jersey; he ended up being signficantly better for them than Vince. I can't wait until people in 2345 are studying Otis Smith's GM tenure and trying to decipher what happened.

    What's weird is that Gordon — by default — is still holding the "Best 2-Guard Under 29 Years Old" title even though he's only played two games this year. The state of NBA 2-guards is extremely grim. Check out my "Pay Afflalo" column from December.

    In last year's column, I wrote, "Where can I place my 'Mark Cuban will reward Chandler's career year by overpaying him with a $72 million extension, then Chandler will miss 200 games over the next five years' wager?" Looks like I lost that one.

    We have to acknowledge the Nash Factor here — guys have a tendency to peak with Nash and fall back when they are somewhere else. Isn't that right, Leandro, Quentin, Amar'e, Boris … ?

    What a shame that Vassilis Spanoulis never made it — we could have called him "The Vasectomy." I'm still disappointed.

    Sportsbook.com lists Memphis at 40-to-1 to win the title and 15-to-1 to win the West (six teams have better odds). Merry Christmas.

    The Committee Who Shall Not Be Named hated this ranking — everyone else had him in the 40s. What can I tell you? He's the perfect third banana for the Zombies and he's not afraid of big moments. I stand by the ranking. By the way, last year's idol went to Paul George.

    Quick Minnesota tangent: I don't blame Kahn for picking Wesley Johnson in 2010. (I would have taken DeMarcus Cousins, but whatever.) Nobody killed that pick at the time — it made sense. But when you look at what Minnesota built from a painful six-year stretch of chronic losing (Love, Rubio, Pekovic, Williams, etc), what jumps out is that Johnson pick, which really came down to luck of the draw. They needed a perimeter player; he was the best one available. Two years earlier, they could have snagged Russ Westbrook or Eric Gordon. One year earlier, Tyreke Evans, Rubio and Curry were sitting there. But that year? Wes Johnson was the best available … and he just doesn't have it. If Westbrook stayed ONE extra year at UCLA, he goes first or second and pushes Evan Turner to Minnesota. Alas.

    When you check out the records of the first three seasons for Derrick Rose (164-82), Deron Williams (146-100), Baron Davis (139-107), Chris Paul (133-113), Steve Francis (109-137), Mike Conley (86-160), Tyreke Evans (61-141) and Mike Bibby (53-161) — all point guards drafted in the top four like Wall was — it becomes pretty clear that the early sample size DOES matter. At least a little.

  4. #3
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,296

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Gee, BRWD, good timing.

  5. #4
    Parachromis HC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hartford City
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,806
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Looks like that could be for Ibaka.
    "No one else can see the preservation of the martyr in me" -- Corey Taylor

  6. #5
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,296

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Looks like that could be for Ibaka.
    It's for both of them. Makes sense too.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CooperManning For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,882
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    49. Roy Hibbert
    Like Anderson, a restricted free agent next summer. I love paying Roy Hibbert $2.59 million this year. I would not love paying Roy Hibbert $13 million next year.

    he reads my mind that is why I would be shopping Hibbert and DC for Rondo


    He also is dead on about Danny

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to pacer4ever For This Useful Post:


  10. #7

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Dead on about Paul George too. If there's any time to trade him, it's now. As much as I like him, he could be the deciding part of a trade that will bring in a player that will be better than he'll ever be.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

  11. #8
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    32,488

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    I'm so confused by what he's writing about George and Ibaka, it seems clear as mud to me. Does he like them or does he think they are overrated?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  12. #9
    Member yoadknux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Israel
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,326

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    I agree about everything he said. Even Granger. Especially Granger. It's pretty obvious to me that his trade value is low, I mean, the guy is known around the league as a scorer, that's pretty much what he does, he's not a consistently good rebounder or defender (At least not as a stopper. I actually think he's our best team defender), and well, when you shoot 38% from the field, how good are you as a scorer?

    And for these reasons, when I make up trades, I usually ship out Hibbert (and rarely George) and not really Granger. Because Granger gives plenty of production for his trade value, while Hibbert and George do not.

    This is probably the most unpopular opinion on the board, but I think we should pack Collison and Hibbert (not because of financial reasons; I just don't think Hibbert is really the quality center that people think he is) if that package can net us a young, quality point guard (like Rondo)

    I just say, and keep saying, that while Hibbert can be a top 10 center, he isn't that far away from the guys who are below him... And he isn't a dominating center.

    And about George. People here sometimes say Granger holds him back. This is exactly the opposite. Granger keeps being the spacegoat of this team (sometimes for the right reasons, most of the time not) while Paul George has all the room he needs to develop.

    Next season is going to be important for George. He could make a Granger type of leap and have a legitimate shot of being a superstar. He could continue a slow development that would turn him into a legit starter/semi star (like Gay or Iggy). Or he could take a Brandon Rush decline. We'll have to wait and see what he turns out to be. I'd rather not trade him and see what happens.

  13. #10
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    944

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    ...And about George. People here sometimes say Granger holds him back. This is exactly the opposite. Granger keeps being the spacegoat of this team (sometimes for the right reasons, most of the time not) while Paul George has all the room he needs to develop...
    This?

  14. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to The Sleeze For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  15. #11
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,522

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    He only said like two sentences about Granger in passing. Part 2 is later on today. So I don't see how you all can say "I totally agree about Granger!"

    Also how is 13 Million per year franchise money? When Rudy Gay is making 17 Million. Rishard Lewis made 20Mill on year. I call BS! on B.S.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to graphic-er For This Useful Post:


  17. #12
    Member yoadknux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Israel
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,326

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This?
    No. That's not how I imagine it. Needs to be darker. Colder. Deep space

  18. #13

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dead on about Paul George too. If there's any time to trade him, it's now. As much as I like him, he could be the deciding part of a trade that will bring in a player that will be better than he'll ever be.
    Did Bill Simmons really just convince you that we should trade Paul George?

    Aw heck no!

  19. #14

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He only said like two sentences about Granger in passing. Part 2 is later on today. So I don't see how you all can say "I totally agree about Granger!"

    Also how is 13 Million per year franchise money? When Rudy Gay is making 17 Million. Rishard Lewis made 20Mill on year. I call BS! on B.S.
    Granger won't be in part 2, Granger was mentioned only because he was in this list last year but fell out of it this year.

  20. #15

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Did Bill Simmons really just convince you that we should trade Paul George?

    Aw heck no!
    Naw, but I am starting to think we should trade Hibbert, just don't see him being consistent enough to give big money to.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to IndyJones For This Useful Post:


  22. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,882
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    If I was the 76ers I would look to trade Spencer Hawes. I think he has some decent value a few picks and a young player plus I think the guy behind him will be a much better player. Nikola Vucevic I think in a starting role is a double double C who is very skilled. I really liked him in the draft would of been one of my main targets if we didn't do the trade. I think he could become a top 10 C in a short period of time and could blossom into a top 5 C I really like his game.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to pacer4ever For This Useful Post:


  24. #17

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Umm.. Simmons loves Paul George. He was gushing about him about a month ago. And just two weeks ago on twitter he came up with a trade for PG and DC for Rondo. Needless to say, I think he just wants Paul George on the Celtics. Nicely played Simmons... trying to convince the Pacers to trade Paul George. PG isn't going anywhere.

  25. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pacerfan For This Useful Post:


  26. #18

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerfan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Umm.. Simmons loves Paul George. He was gushing about him about a month ago. And just two weeks ago on twitter he came up with a trade for PG and DC for Rondo. Needless to say, I think he just wants Paul George on the Celtics. Nicely played Simmons... trying to convince the Pacers to trade Paul George. PG isn't going anywhere.
    Thats why he is in the list, someone you really wont trade because of his potential.

  27. #19
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    honolulu
    Age
    26
    Posts
    7,977
    Mood

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This?
    Or could be:


  28. The Following User Says Thank You to AesopRockOn For This Useful Post:


  29. #20
    Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,038

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    In his part 2 of the FA he just proposed a Paul George for Paul Pierce straight up;

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...e-value-part-2

    The inherent flaw of this column: Some guys aren't getting traded for the same reason that you wouldn't trade your kids, your dog or your spouse. [Thinking.] You're right, some people would trade their kids, dog or spouse.1 But once you win a title with someone, you can't just callously cut ties with them. Here's a good example of why I'm right …

    Let's say Indiana offered Paul George straight up for Pierce — something that's actually conceivable because Indiana is $14 million under the cap right now (and could contend this spring with a short-term Pierce/George upgrade). You're running the Celtics. That trade saves you $12.9 million plus another $8.9 million in luxury tax money in 2012, then puts you $38 million under the cap heading into the 2012-13 season. It doesn't totally ruin this year's season and makes you better defensively. It gives you two-thirds of a pretty sweet under-27 core: Rondo and George. Really, it's a logical deal except you'd be crapping on a future Hall of Famer who just gave you 13 great years, wanted to retire with Boston and planned on going down as one of the six or seven best Celtics ever. That's why Boston would say no, just like the Colts would say no if they had a chance to release Peyton Manning and build around Andrew Luck.

    (Hey, wait a second … )
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

  30. #21
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    3,929
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm so confused by what he's writing about George and Ibaka, it seems clear as mud to me. Does he like them or does he think they are overrated?
    Does he like them? Yes.

    Does he think they are overrated? He doesn't know yet. TBD. In hindsight, they might be.

    It's a bit of a mixed message because it all hinges on potential.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

  31. #22
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,752

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    It's so funny because a Paul Pierce for Paul George trade makes so much sense. But neither team would do it for non-basketball reasons.

  32. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    22
    Posts
    16,882
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's so funny because a Paul Pierce for Paul George trade makes so much sense. But neither team would do it for non-basketball reasons.
    Trading for Pierce doesnt make sense he is 34 and cant defend the SG anymore(he can barley defend most 3s). Our defense would take a hit and our offense would be better Pierce would be the best facilitator on the team.

    But the question you have to ask is trading George for Pierce make us contenders??? No and for that reason you don't even entertain the idea.

  33. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to pacer4ever For This Useful Post:


  34. #24
    A Magical Place Hoop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Greenwood
    Posts
    4,607
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Trading for Pierce doesnt make sense he is 34 and cant defend the SG anymore(he can barley defend most 3s). Our defense would take a hit and our offense would be better Pierce would be the best facilitator on the team.

    But the question you have to ask is trading George for Pierce make us contenders??? No and for that reason you don't even entertain the idea.
    And I hate Paul Pierce with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  35. #25
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,638

    Default Re: Bill Simmons' NBA trade value column

    Paul George might be all-NBA first team defense next year.

    You don't steal or near steal 6-7 plays per game, often athletically and often for takes the other way, and then run down blocks from behind where other guys turned the ball over and not get noticed.

    I'm sorry he's not dropping 25 a night, but he's already a better defender than McKey was. I said it. Screw you guys, I watched Satan in detail and loved his hand work near the rim for strips. I loved his footwork to hold space.

    But George in the last month or so has taken what we saw vs Rose last year to another level. His defense was the clear Pacers highlight of the Atlanta game, followed by West's offense and then Hill's offense, and then....well nothing after that.

    I mean I KNOW PG is a strong defender and expect some good plays and he still shocks me on stuff he gets to or reads. He destroyed Hinrich so badly I thought Kirk would walk off the court and retire right then.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-09-2012 at 09:29 PM.

  36. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Pacers: Trade Deadline Countdown, Who's on the Block?
    By Hibbert in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  2. Bill Simmons Mailbag returns from summer break
    By juadam09 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 05:07 PM
  3. The Musician/Athlete Game from Bill Simmons
    By Spicoli in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-04-2005, 11:03 PM
  4. Bill Simmons article
    By dannyboy in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-11-2004, 12:44 AM
  5. Bills Simmons Annual NBA Salary Survey (Part I)
    By ChicagoJ in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-23-2004, 07:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •