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Thread: Peyton Manning press conference :(

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Mort said that and I'm inclined to think it's true because Mort has always been pretty in-tune with Colts insider info. He is very tight with Polian.

    Polian has never missed an opportunity to make himself look good or smart. I'd take any info he feeds ESPN with a grain of salt, especially when it involves making him look good. I'm reminded of his misremembered comments and thoughts on Marvin Harrison prior to that draft....
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Polian has never missed an opportunity to make himself look good or smart. I'd take any info he feeds ESPN with a grain of salt, especially when it involves making him look good. I'm reminded of his misremembered comments and thoughts on Marvin Harrison prior to that draft....
    I remember Peyton taking the credit for the opt out clause. Either way it worked out for the best.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I'm not an NFL Capologist, but I though the 28 million was a signing bonus. I can never really tell what the cap hit is in an NFL contract, all I ever hear about is signing bonuses.
    The 28 million dollar was a contract extension bonus which was spread out over the 4 years as was the 26 million signing bonus which was spread over the 5 years.

    Manning cap hit was 17 million for this year (7 million base salary and 10 million signing and extension bonus money).

    Add in Lucks salary and the Colts would be paying around 20 million in cap hits for this year for one position. Not extending Manning saved only 2 million or so this year which is enough to sign a guy like Saturday assuming he doesn't retire. Why only 2 million saved? That 26 million bonus signed last year 10 million was going to count against the cap this year if he wasn't extended. So Naptown is wrong for this year but right overall.

    Not extending was more about the long term cap than this years cap. The real savings is paying Luck for 4 years at a 3-6 million per year salary versus Mannings 17-20 million (cap hit).

    The Colts will have very little cap room this year unless they release Freeney who is a 19 million dollar cap hit.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I remember Peyton taking the credit for the opt out clause. Either way it worked out for the best.
    He did. He said that the Colts wanted him to sign the long term contract, and that he didn't know what was going on with his neck. He wanted to sign a one year contract, with a four year extension, so they could make that decision when the time came.

    Those are all fair questions, but itís not things that I think about right now. I think about today, trying to be better by tomorrow at 3 oíclock. Say, ĎHey did I get a little better this week.í I understand those things are there. The contract, I was the one that helped construct it in the manner that it is. Itís a one-year deal with a four-year extension, if you will. It was my recommendation, that I wasnít healthy when I signed the contract and if Iím not healthy in February I think itís fair for the Colts to be able to make their decision there. The other reason for the December, the ability to possibly practice would be for the Colts to have a fair evaluation of where I am. Weíre in full disclosure with each other. I think December is the next check point Ö to see where we are. We may be the same where we are; I sure hope weíre better, but it really is hard to predict.
    http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2011...ng-said-today/

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Bottom line is the massive Ego of Jim Irsay. When he got the #1 pick it occurred to him that he had a chance to catch lighting in a bottle twice in his life time.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  7. #81
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    I'm a little disappointed in the fans turning on Irsay for this decision. Reading comments at the Star it seems to be about 90%+ anti-Irsay. The thing is, I'm seeing almost 100% agreement with Irsay among sports journalists and football professionals. That's a massive disconnect.

    As much as I'd like to see Peyton return to form and go out and grab a couple more SB's and cement his legacy with that type of icing on the cake, I'm beginning to think it would be better for the Colts if he fails his physical and never plays again.

    If people don't understand the logic behind what has transpired now, just wait until Manning takes a solid team deep into playoffs and challenges for a SB. ...as if that means he could've done the same with this team.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm a little disappointed in the fans turning on Irsay for this decision. Reading comments at the Star it seems to be about 90%+ anti-Irsay. The thing is, I'm seeing almost 100% agreement with Irsay among sports journalists and football professionals. That's a massive disconnect.
    This is what I said from the beginning. If Peyton goes and wins with another team, watch out.

    It's pretty much fact, as far as perception goes, that Peyton could take a 2-14 team without him and turn it into a 12-4 team with him. So if the Colts lose for an extended period of time, I think it will only make the situation worse for Irsay.

    I still think Irsay would have gotten a lot more slack had he kept PM and they found out he wasn't healthy enough to go. People would understand that. They won't understand kicking a potential GOAT to the curb in order to lose.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    I don't wish this but the first time Peyton really takes a hit, especially a stinger, and you'll probably see a re-evaluation if he really want's to play.

    I know the Doctors say that he's fine like everyone else and there is no other danger. Look I'm not expert and have no clue really, but as I've stated my wife had the same procedure. And I know it took a long time before she felt normal again and didn't worry about tweaking her neck. She can still hear something internally when she turns her head sometimes because of the plate and screws.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    FWIW, my opinion is that Peyton is worth 4-6 wins.

    So if a team is an 0-16 team, I think Peyton at least makes them 6-10. The team lucks into a win or 2, and that is an 8 and 8 team. Or a great year for the Washington Redskins

    I understand why he had to sever ties, but I disagree with the owner for all the reason S86 stated. Watch out if he has a winning season, esp if he does to the PO's. Esp watch out if Luck has a rough rookie and/or sophmore year.

    What have you done me for lately? Also, will Luck turn into the next Manning, or could the expirement fail as badly as Campbell failed for the Redskins. For Colts fans, I hope its the former.

    FWIW, I only saw the first 2 minutes of the PC. I was ready to get teary eyed, and I am not even a Colts fan.

  11. #85

    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I still think Irsay would have gotten a lot more slack had he kept PM and they found out he wasn't healthy enough to go. People would understand that. They won't understand kicking a potential GOAT to the curb in order to lose.
    Irsay would have gotten more slack but in the end its still a rebuild. Does everyone think PM wanted to be back during a rebuilding process?

    I don't.

  12. #86
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm a little disappointed in the fans turning on Irsay for this decision. Reading comments at the Star it seems to be about 90%+ anti-Irsay. The thing is, I'm seeing almost 100% agreement with Irsay among sports journalists and football professionals. That's a massive disconnect.

    As much as I'd like to see Peyton return to form and go out and grab a couple more SB's and cement his legacy with that type of icing on the cake, I'm beginning to think it would be better for the Colts if he fails his physical and never plays again.

    If people don't understand the logic behind what has transpired now, just wait until Manning takes a solid team deep into playoffs and challenges for a SB. ...as if that means he could've done the same with this team.


    I think what upset people is that Irsay never really acted like he wanted Manning back. He started a spat with his "politician" comments and then bickered with him during Super Bowl week.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Irsay would have gotten more slack but in the end its still a rebuild. Does everyone think PM wanted to be back during a rebuilding process?

    I don't.
    Hold up for a sec, is it really a re-build if you have PM at the helm. NOPE!
    You people act like this team last year with Peyton wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs. ridiculous. They probably would have held serve again, not much turn over from the previous years team which won 12 games again.

    Mortenson on Grady and Joe show this morning and his take the opinion that the whole salary cap thing isn't as big a deal as its been reported. His example was the Patriots who last year had like 19 undrafted FA's playing for the minimum. Its all about talent at the key positions like QB.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 03-08-2012 at 01:35 PM.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Irsay would have gotten more slack but in the end its still a rebuild. Does everyone think PM wanted to be back during a rebuilding process?

    I don't.
    They could have rebuilt, while winning. It would have been the same situation as they've been in.

    Irsay, in his own words, called Peyton's deal "cap friendly." Unless he just didn't realize that Wayne and Co. were FA, then he knew he was going to be in this situation this year. He thought he could work around it, obviously, or maybe BBall Fan is right and he's back on the pills and they've made him just dumb as a box of rocks.

    The same deal is cap friendly one summer, and then magically becomes uncap friendly the next summer? Uh, okay....

    So if you thought Peyton was gonna be back, that his deal was cap friendly, then I think it's safe to assume that Irsay thought he could re-sign those FAs.

    If you re-sign them, you're looking at practically the same exact team you've had, while just getting in new blood through the draft.

    Peyton has carried the Colts for how many years now? I don't suddenly think he's going to be fed up with it.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    FWIW, my opinion is that Peyton is worth 4-6 wins.
    You really have no idea how good Manning is. Best player on the field, has the ball in his hands every down, calls his own plays. He has a huge impact on the game, Try more like 10-11 wins. He made everyone on the offense look better than they really are. You just have to watch this last season to figure that out.

    Hell many would say they were winning despite their Coach the last SB run.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    You really have no idea how good Manning is. Best player on the field, has the ball in his hands every down, calls his own plays. He has a huge impact on the game, Try more like 10-11 wins. He made everyone on the offense look better than they really are. You just have to watch this last season to figure that out.

    Hell many would say they were winning despite their Coach the last SB run.
    I have actually watched him quite a bit, even live once. Beleive it or not, I do know how good he is.

    Maybe I undercut his worth, either way my point stands..................

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I have actually watched him quite a bit, even live once. Beleive it or not, I do know how good he is.

    Maybe I undercut his worth, either way my point stands..................
    I really find this hilarious. The guy who the opposing defense completely designs their game plan around is only worth 4-6 wins. It's utterly preposterous.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'm a little disappointed in the fans turning on Irsay for this decision. Reading comments at the Star it seems to be about 90%+ anti-Irsay. The thing is, I'm seeing almost 100% agreement with Irsay among sports journalists and football professionals. That's a massive disconnect.
    Of course the Journalists think its a great move, they get to cover the Manning free agency. I have seen a couple of writers or experts say that its a terrible decision and giant gamble.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    They could have rebuilt, while winning. It would have been the same situation as they've been in.

    Irsay, in his own words, called Peyton's deal "cap friendly." Unless he just didn't realize that Wayne and Co. were FA, then he knew he was going to be in this situation this year. He thought he could work around it, obviously, or maybe BBall Fan is right and he's back on the pills and they've made him just dumb as a box of rocks.

    The same deal is cap friendly one summer, and then magically becomes uncap friendly the next summer? Uh, okay....

    So if you thought Peyton was gonna be back, that his deal was cap friendly, then I think it's safe to assume that Irsay thought he could re-sign those FAs.

    If you re-sign them, you're looking at practically the same exact team you've had, while just getting in new blood through the draft.

    Peyton has carried the Colts for how many years now? I don't suddenly think he's going to be fed up with it.
    Don't be fooled by the IRsay PR campaign. Peytons deal isn't cap freindly. ITs still a 16-20 million cap hit every year.

    I honestly believe IRsay never thought he would be in this position when PM contract was signed. I also believe Wayne was going to be gone regardless and Garcon was the one they were going to try to resign. Mathis deal could work under the cap or a franchise tag so he could be back with a back loaded contract.

    Either way they never thought their first pick would be Luck or a QB. If it was say the 5 or 10th pick then I see them going WR to replace Wayne.

    THe overall point is that there is nothing cap friendly about paying 17 million dollars in cap money then paying the backup 3-4 million on top of that.

    When you fire the coach, GM, and president its a rebuilding process. Sure PM could be apart of that but the team talent wise is worse off than many others that will offer him a contract.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    It's not a PR campaign. I heard Irsay on the radio with my own two ears before the contract was even signed saying that it wasn't even a question on whether or not Peyton would be back. That Irsay was willing to give him anything he wanted, because of how much he meant to the organization.

    Then the contract was signed and Peyton starts talking about how he turned down money.

    That's not a PR campaign. That's reality.

    Either Irsay had a plan to keep the Colts together this offseason, and just scrapped the idea, or he's just a plain idiot and doesn't have the capacity to look further than 8 months ahead.

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  23. #95
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    It would've also been a tremendous gamble on the Colts' part to pick up Manning's option.

    The choice Irsay was faced with wasn't "start winning again next year with Peyton Manning for the next several years" versus 'rolling the dice that Luck is the next Peyton Manning and have a repeat of the last decade for 10+ more years'.

    The choice was whether the team in it's current condition could improve enough to be in contention if it took on Manning's large contract and how that would play out if Manning did not return to long term health and his former status.... versus renegotiating with Manning... versus just taking Luck and rebuilding from there.

    If I was in Irsay's shoes I probably would've picked up Manning's option and immediately regretted going with my heart over logic and spent the summer sweating Manning's health and durability and wondering what a 35 yr old Manning's career longevity really is in both the best case scenario and the worst case scenario.

    And then I'd be hoping Luck is a bust for whoever got him after I traded the pick because if I was going to make a mistake I'd prefer it be with sticking with Manning.

    But if Luck is not a bust.... and Manning doesn't return to form or only has a year or two of being close to his old self.... I'd realize the hole I just created for the franchise and it wouldn't be good.

    Even if Luck is a bust for the Colts it won't sink them for years because they can still afford to shore up the rest of the team and utilize the high picks a bust at QB likely nets them. But the Manning contract, even if healthy, would be tough to build around... and if not healthy... Oh my...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's not a PR campaign. I heard Irsay on the radio with my own two ears before the contract was even signed saying that it wasn't even a question on whether or not Peyton would be back. That Irsay was willing to give him anything he wanted, because of how much he meant to the organization.

    Then the contract was signed and Peyton starts talking about how he turned down money.

    That's not a PR campaign. That's reality.

    Either Irsay had a plan to keep the Colts together this offseason, and just scrapped the idea, or he's just a plain idiot and doesn't have the capacity to look further than 8 months ahead.
    Irsay had a plan to keep this team together then it went 2-14 and got the chance to sign the next franchise QB. Thats what changed and its the right move to take the next franchise QB especially since the 2-14 record showed that a massive overall was needed AND your QB had 4 neck procedures and will be 36 years old.

    Plans change do to circumstances and its just that simple.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 03-08-2012 at 02:42 PM.

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  26. #97
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Irsay's plan was to trust the job Bill Polian was doing. Under no circumstance was the team supposed to threaten for 0-16 even if Manning was lost for the season IMHO. The cupboard wasn't supposed to be bare.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  27. #98
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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    And BTW.... I still believe if Manning had wanted to remain a Colt and was willing to compromise, Irsay would've obliged him. So this all isn't on Irsay imo.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Irsay's plan was to trust the job Bill Polian was doing. Under no circumstance was the team supposed to threaten for 0-16 even if Manning was lost for the season IMHO. The cupboard wasn't supposed to be bare.
    I really don't know why people don't get this. I mean how many times in life do you plan something then it all goes south and you have to adjust some things to get the ship righted.

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    Default Re: Peyton Manning press conference :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I really don't know why people don't get this. I mean how many times in life do you plan something then it all goes south and you have to adjust some things to get the ship righted.
    I don't know... And I also don't believe any team threatening to go 0-16 and finally managing 2-14 is one player away from truly contending for a SB.... no matter who that player is.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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