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Thread: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Kareem's first four years coincided with Wilt's last 4 years, that is the only reason. Even a young Kareem never made 1st team all-defensive center over an old Wilt. Wilt's final season, he set a record for field goal percentage (72.7%) and led the league in rebounds.

    career numbers:
    Wilt Chamberlain 30.1 ppg, 22.9 rpg, 4.4 apg
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg

    None of this is to deride Kareem, because I do believe Kareem was one of the 5 greatest centers in history, but he simply was no Wilt.
    ...snip
    Excellent post.

    I would only add that Wilt was 36 his last season in the league. As a comparison, Tim Duncan is averaging 18 and 11 and turns 36 next month.

    So, what I'm saying is that Wilt was not yet in the grave for those 4 years and it could be that he was beginning to face better players.

    That's not to say I don't think Wilt was the greatest of all time. I just think his god-like stats would have never happened in the 1990's...and his legacy simply wouldn't be as amazing as it is.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Excellent post.

    I would only add that Wilt was 36 his last season in the league. As a comparison, Tim Duncan is averaging 18 and 11 and turns 36 next month.

    So, what I'm saying is that Wilt was not yet in the grave for those 4 years and it could be that he was beginning to face better players.

    That's not to say I don't think Wilt was the greatest of all time. I just think his god-like stats would have never happened in the 1990's...and his legacy simply wouldn't be as amazing as it is.
    What are you smoking? Duncan's averaging 14.2 and 8.6

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    What are you smoking? Duncan's averaging 14.2 and 8.6
    I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.
    It most certianly was the overriding factor. It's absolutely asinine to assume a 36 year old is gonna hang with a 25 year old, especially in that time period.

    Jordan in his last 2 years against Kobe averaged 14.3, 5.8 and 5.3
    Kobe in those same games averaged 29.8, 6.0 and 7.0
    So is Kobe better then Jordan? HELL NO!

    Also, Duncan is still a very good player, but he's no where close to what he was in his prime, and his game has never been based on great athleticism, so it ages well
    Last edited by TheDavisBrothers; 03-03-2012 at 09:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I was looking at the 36 minute stats, so I stand corrected. Still, his minutes and therefore his production are both down because the Spurs want to save him for the playoffs. I don't think his effectiveness has fell off a cliff. It's not what it once was for sure, but the point still stands. If Wilt was far and away better than Kareem he still would have dominated him. Age was not the overriding factor. It was a factor, but it's being overstated.
    I agree with this. I remember seeing some sports show many years ago as a kid on hbo I think. One of the players they were talking about was kareem. And they had wilt talk about him. Wilt said kareem was the 1st player he ever faced that he had trouble guarding one on one.
    No doubt wilt is among the games greatest even though I never got to see him however, I definitely think lack of legit competition definitely played a role.
    I saw a post by blu mentioning that wilt would dominate shaq. Wilt was never 300 pounds. He got up to about 280 which is still very big but nowhere near as big as shaq. Shaq was in the 330 zone in his prime . Shaq was definitely the biggest, strongest to ever play. Wilt was a more refined player and may even have been able to beat shaq overall in a playoff series. But, dominate him? Not a chance no one ever dominated shaq in a series while he was in shape and played like he still sort of cared.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    I saw a post by blu mentioning that wilt would dominate shaq. Wilt was never 300 pounds. He got up to about 280 which is still very big but nowhere near as big as shaq. Shaq was in the 330 zone in his prime . Shaq was definitely the biggest, strongest to ever play. Wilt was a more refined player and may even have been able to beat shaq overall in a playoff series. But, dominate him? Not a chance no one ever dominated shaq in a series while he was in shape and played like he still sort of cared.
    I don't feel like looking up the stats but I believe Hakeem dominated Shaq in that series. He was just too quick and agile in the paint for Shaq to guard him. I think Wilt would have done this to a greater degree.
    When I think of Wilt's #'s falling off, I think of how sports science has advanced. We still have some players with a very short lived peak but more players seem to be able to play effectively into their late 30's. If Wilt played in the 90's he may have faced more competition. If he played today he would have no real competition. However, he would also have the advantage of today's medical and training advances.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I don't feel like looking up the stats but I believe Hakeem dominated Shaq in that series. He was just too quick and agile in the paint for Shaq to guard him. I think Wilt would have done this to a greater degree.
    When I think of Wilt's #'s falling off, I think of how sports science has advanced. We still have some players with a very short lived peak but more players seem to be able to play effectively into their late 30's. If Wilt played in the 90's he may have faced more competition. If he played today he would have no real competition. However, he would also have the advantage of today's medical and training advances.
    It's been a while since I looked at the stats but if I recall them pretty well- hakeem did NOT dominate shaq. He did make himlook bad on some iso's however, about the only area hakeem outdid him was a slight scoring edge with lower fg%
    He generally won the matchup but it was not nearly what some want to believe.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    It's been a while since I looked at the stats but if I recall them pretty well- hakeem did NOT dominate shaq. He did make himlook bad on some iso's however, about the only area hakeem outdid him was a slight scoring edge with lower fg%
    He generally won the matchup but it was not nearly what some want to believe.
    Yes. People went into that series thinking Shaq would dominate. That didn't happen and that's why Hakeem got a bump out of the series.

    Shaq averaged 28.5 points and 12.5 boards with a total of 10 blocks. Hakeem around 33 points and 11 boards with a total of 8 blocks. The Rockets swept and Hakeem consistently seemed to keep Shaq in check. I think that's what surprised people.

    But things are never simple. Shaq's FG% was a lot higher. Hakeem put up a lot more shots to get those points. Hakeem shot under .500 for the series...launching it 116 times. Shaq shot very close to .600...on 74 attempts. Perhaps they should have fed Shaq the ball.

    BTW, I closely followed that series at the time and I came away with more respect for Olajuwon. So...all things considered...I do think he outplayed Shaq in that series. But the sweep was a team effort.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    It most certianly was the overriding factor. It's absolutely asinine to assume a 36 year old is gonna hang with a 25 year old, especially in that time period.

    Jordan in his last 2 years against Kobe averaged 14.3, 5.8 and 5.3
    Kobe in those same games averaged 29.8, 6.0 and 7.0
    So is Kobe better then Jordan? HELL NO!

    Also, Duncan is still a very good player, but he's no where close to what he was in his prime, and his game has never been based on great athleticism, so it ages well
    ...that was over the course of 4 years...not just Wilt's last year. Wilt was barely 33 that first year and Kareem was a rookie. Even then, Jabbar competed pretty evenly with him. Wilt should have completely dominated the rookie in all aspects of the game at that point. But that did not happen.

    Wilt, who had just turned 33 a couple months earlier...in their first matchup when Kareem was a rookie, barely outplayed Kareem. The next year, Kareem is outplaying him. In the latter years, Kareem was completely dominating Wilt.

    The following is information I pulled from another blog. I don't know the accuracy of this but I find it quite interesting. This tells me that Wilt is probably better than Kareem but his legend is inflated.

    Regular season – 1969-70

    1. Date: Fri 10/24/69
    - Chamberlain 25 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 9-14 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 23 pts, 20 rebs, 2 as, 2 blocks, 9-21 FG/FGA L

    Regular season – 1970-71

    2. Date: Fri 11/20/70
    - Chamberlain 28 pts, 23 rebs, 3 as, 10 blocks, 7-20 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 13 rebs, 0 as, 2 blocks, 13-32 FG/FGA W

    3. Date: Mon 12/21/70
    - Chamberlain 25 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 2 blocks, 11-23 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 0 as, 4 blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA W

    4. Date: Fri 02/05/71
    - Chamberlain 14 pts, 14 rebs, 3 as, 6 blocks, 7-10 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 27 pts, 10 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA L

    5. Date: Thu 02/11/71
    - Chamberlain 25 pts, 11 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 21 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 13-30 FG/FGA – 2 blocks against Wilt W

    6. Date: Wed 03/03/71
    - Chamberlain 24 pts, 13 rebs, 5 as, 8 blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 15 pts, 6 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-21 FG/FGA W

    Post season – 1970-71 – WCF playoffs

    7. Date: Fri 04/09/71
    - Chamberlain 22 pts, 20 rebs, 1 as, 8 blocks, 10-19 FG/FGA – 3 blocks against Jabbar L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 32 pts, 22 rebs, 1 as, 1 blocks, 14-30 FG/FGA W

    8. Date: Sun 04/11/71
    - Chamberlain 26 pts, 22 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA - Wilt blocked numerious shots L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 22 pts, 10 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W

    9. Date: Wed 04/14/71
    - Chamberlain 24 pts, 24 rebs, 3 as, 3 blocks, 9-19 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 19 rebs, 6 as, 0 blocks, 8-16 FG/FGA L

    10.Date: Fri 04/16/71
    - Chamberlain 15 pts, 16 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 7-14 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 14-20 FG/FGA W

    11.Date: Fri 04/16/71
    - Chamberlain 23 pts, 12 rebs, 4 as, 6 blocks, 10-21 FG/FGA – 5 blocks against Jabbar L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 20 pts, 15 rebs, 5 as, 3 blocks, 7-23 FG/FGA W

    Regular season – 1971-72

    12.Date: Sat 11/21/71
    - Chamberlain 11 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 4-9 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 17-33 FG/FGA L

    13.Date: Sun 01/09/72
    - Chamberlain 15 pts, 12 rebs, 2 as, 6 blocks, 7-11 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 39 pts, 20 rebs, 5 as, 9 blocks, 18-34 FG/FGA W

    14.Date: Fri 02/04/72
    - Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 8-14 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 18 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 16-33 FG/FGA L

    15.Date: Wed 03/01/72
    - Chamberlain 8 pts, 17 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 12 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

    16.Date: Fri 03/17/72
    - Chamberlain 18 pts, 25 rebs, 5 as, * blocks, 7-15 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 50 pts, 8 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 22-39 FG/FGA L

    Post season – 1971-72 – WCF playoffs

    17.Date: Sun 04/09/72
    - Chamberlain 10 pts, 24 rebs, 0 as, * blocks, 3-12 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-26 FG/FGA W

    18.Date: Wed 04/12/72
    - Chamberlain 11 pts, 17 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 40 pts, 7 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 18-31 FG/FGA L

    19.Date: Fri 04/14/72
    - Chamberlain 7 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, 10 blocks, 1-3 FG/FGA – 6 blocks against Jabbar W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 33 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 15-37 FG/FGA L

    20.Date: Sun 04/16/72
    - Chamberlain 5 pts, 11 rebs, 4 as, 3 blocks, 2-7 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 31 pts, 18 rebs, 3 as, 7 blocks, 14-33 FG/FGA W

    21.Date: Tue 04/18/72
    - Chamberlain 12 pts, 26 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 2-3 FG/FGA - 4 blocks against Jabbar W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 28 pts, 16 rebs, 3 as, * blocks, 13-33 FG/FGA L

    22.Date: Sat 04/22/72
    - Chamberlain 20 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, 9 blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 25 rebs, 8 as, * blocks, 16-37 FG/FGA L

    Regular season – 1972-73

    23.Date: Tue 11/14/72
    - Chamberlain 16 pts, 15 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 8-12 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 16 rebs, 6 as, 7 blocks, 17-32 FG/FGA L

    24.Date: Tue 12/05/72
    - Chamberlain 9 pts, 15 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 4-4 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 17 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 11-30 FG/FGA L

    25.Date: Sun 01/07/73
    - Chamberlain 9 pts, 18 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 3-5 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 37 pts, 12 rebs, 7 as, * blocks, 17-36 FG/FGA W

    26.Date: Fri 02/09/73
    - Chamberlain 8 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 3-3 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 29 pts, 24 rebs, 2 as, * blocks, 14-24 FG/FGA W

    27.Date: Sun 02/25/73
    - Chamberlain 24 pts, 20 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 10-14 FG/FGA W
    -Abdul-Jabbar 21 pts, 21 rebs, 6 as, * blocks, 10-27 FG/FGA L

    28.Date: Tue 03/27/73
    - Chamberlain 0 pts, 14 rebs, 4 as, * blocks, 0-0 FG/FGA L
    -Abdul-Jabbar 24 pts, 17 rebs, 1 as, * blocks, 12-31 FG/FGA W
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-04-2012 at 01:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Especially in that era 33 is at least past your prime and more likely well past your prime, hell even now 33 is past your prime

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Especially in that era 33 is at least past your prime and more likely well past your prime, hell even now 33 is past your prime
    Perhaps that's because they played so many minutes. Wilt averaged over 45 minutes a game to Kareem's 36. That right there is part of the stat difference. Not saying Kareem could have averaged 50ppg...but it did take Wilt 48.5 minutes a game that year to do it. I don't mean to diminish that feat because it's amazing, but guys were simply not as tall at the time.

    The reality is, Wilt had problems guarding Kareem because he hadn't faced a center with an offensive game like that...one that wasn't shorter than him. Had Wilt played in the 90's, he may have been better but it would not have been complete dominance. IOW, his legacy is inflated...although props to him for being that good so long ago.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    The fact that he played so many minutes is a tribute to his greatness, not a deterrent, I mean could you imagine Shaq playing that many minutes a game? Roy? Having to carry their big bodies around, without a break, they would be dying out their gasping for air

  14. #38

    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    i would say the early to mid 90's was the golden age of the big man.
    so many great ones or ones who had been great but were past their prime but still pretty good.
    anyway, it would be pretty sick what wilt could do in today's league with so many teams using power forwards approximating a center. he thoroughly would abuse guys like howard.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    i would say the early to mid 90's was the golden age of the big man.
    so many great ones or ones who had been great but were past their prime but still pretty good.
    anyway, it would be pretty sick what wilt could do in today's league with so many teams using power forwards approximating a center. he thoroughly would abuse guys like howard.
    This is a good point. Wilt would have fit into today's NBA very well because he was extremely athletic. His numbers wouldn't have been as good as the 1960's, but they'd be a lot better than the late 1980's or 1990's when he'd have to deal with David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, etc. Don't tell me Dale Davis would have backed down either. I cannot imagine Zo or Dale Davis backing down.

    BTW, Bill Russell was 6'9" and 215 freaking pounds. Granger is bigger than that guys. Sure, Bill was probably a bad boy, but people need to factor in that Wilt's biggest competition was 60 lbs lighter than him. Fact is, Wilt simply didn't face the same size he would have in the 90's and the result would have been very different.

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    Default Re: Reflecting on Wilt's 100 point game 50 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Fact is, Wilt simply didn't face the same size he would have in the 90's and the result would have been very different.
    Here are the NBA players from 1960-1972 6'11" or taller who played at least 3 years in the NBA: (list does not include Wilt Chamberlain)

    Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
    Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
    Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
    Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
    Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
    Mel Counts: 7'0"
    Walter Dukes: 7'0"
    Jim Eakins: 6'11"
    Ray Felix: 6'11"
    Hank Finkel: 7'0"
    Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
    Reggie Harding: 7'0"
    Bob Lanier: 6'11"
    Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
    Otto Moore: 6'11"
    Dave Newmark: 7'0"
    Rich Niemann: 7'0"
    Billy Paultz: 6'11"
    Craig Raymond: 6'11"
    Elmore Smith: 7'0"
    Chuck Share: 6'11"
    Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
    Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
    Walt Wesley: 6'11"

    The league had 8 teams when Wilt was a rookie, 16 when he retired

    some these guys were stiffs, many were not.

    This is posted not to say that players were not generally smaller in the 1960s as opposed to 1990s, but to put facts out there to challenge the notion that he was facing 6'6' power forwards every night
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 03-05-2012 at 01:16 AM.
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