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Thread: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

  1. #26
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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Numbers and stats aren't everything and DW makes such an impact on the floor and has unselfishly passed up shots that he would have taken to make that extra pass to get us in a better shot. I have been pleasently surprised with the leadership that DW has integrated in this team. He has been a team player through thick and thin.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    I'm not the one worked up here. I made a passing comment about something that was a legit surprise when looking at West's and the teams numbers and you make a big deal out of it when there was no reason to. If I was in here saying West sucks and Tyler should be starting then I could see your point, but I clearly know that's not the case.
    I never made a big deal about it... And when you talk about Tyler in about ever other post I'd say that's an agenda...

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    West is the better overall scorer and needs to take more shots, Roy needs to cut out the long jumper and make his living on the post and off the offensive glass. When playoff time gets here we don't know if Roy is 100% going to have his head on straight and be in the game mentally or if he will get into foul trouble like last year. We know West isn't afraid to take the big shots as he's clutch and come playoff time his mid-range game is going be golden, we need to start using our players like we are going to come May.
    West can score in more ways, but I don't really think he is a better overall scorer. Roy doesn't take the long jumper much at all, but he can hit 15 footers with consistency. He does do most of his work in the post and on the offensive glass.

    Roy has consistently been scoring for us in the post and our offense runs great through him since he is an excellent passer. Why should he take less shots when he is shooting the best % of anyone on the team?

    Taking the ball out of Roy's hands so West can take a shot or two more a game is a terrible idea.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    I never made a big deal about it... And when you talk about Tyler in about ever other post I'd say that's an agenda...
    Clearly you have made a big deal about it since there's been several other people post in this thread with you the only one bringing up something about me being shocked Tyler actually had a higher PER36 PPG despite all his games with 4 or less points this year.

    Tyler is my favorite player on the team and I made that clear since one of my very first posts here, but I fail to see where this thread falls into any type of agenda? I'm not pimping for Tyler to take West job or get his shots and in reality I'm actually pimping for West to get more shots off himself.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    Clearly you have made a big deal about it since there's been several other people post in this thread with you the only one bringing up something about me being shocked Tyler actually had a higher PER36 PPG despite all his games with 4 or less points this year.

    Tyler is my favorite player on the team and I made that clear since one of my very first posts here, but I fail to see where this thread falls into any type of agenda? I'm not pimping for Tyler to take West job or get his shots and in reality I'm actually pimping for West to get more shots off himself.
    I didn't know that every post you make is automatically a BIG DEAL... That's just asinine... Again when like half your posts involve him, I think that says something...

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    West can score in more ways, but I don't really think he is a better overall scorer. Roy doesn't take the long jumper much at all, but he can hit 15 footers with consistency. He does do most of his work in the post and on the offensive glass.

    Roy has consistently been scoring for us in the post and our offense runs great through him since he is an excellent passer. Why should he take less shots when he is shooting the best % of anyone on the team?

    Taking the ball out of Roy's hands so West can take a shot or two more a game is a terrible idea.
    If you have more ways to score I would say that automatically makes you a better scorer. Also its not as much taking the shots away from Roy as its taking them away from Danny. But as far as Roy goes he's shooting 58.8% from the field against the 6 worst teams in each league over 18 games and just 44.0% against the upper 60% of the league in 14 games. He's still a work in progress when it comes to the prime time lights and come May I want the ball in West's hands as much as I can get it.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Good thing he is not talking about West's D.
    It helps when your backup is even worse at it than you are.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Again when like half your posts involve him, I think that says something...
    It says that he has a player crush on him. That's not the same thing with having an agenda.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    I didn't know that every post you make is automatically a BIG DEAL... That's just asinine... Again when like half your posts involve him, I think that says something...
    When you call someone out about something they post when nobody else is talking about it, then its undoubtedly making it a big deal. And the fact you keep going on and on about it is only making it even clear how much you're making it a big deal when nobody seems to care in the slightest.

    Yes My post total about Tyler does say something, It says he's my favorite player on the team! A fact that I've made very clear in one of my first post here and something I've never hid in the couple months here. Seriously do really think you've unearthed some big unknown secret here or something?

    You are literally hijacking the thread over an additional comment about Tyler that has nothing to do with him getting more shots or anything that would benefit him. Then you're going on and on about this agenda in a thread that where I'm looking for the guy Tyler backs up to get a bigger chunk of the offense which could cost him time!

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    Question Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    When you call someone out about something they post when nobody else is talking about it, then its undoubtedly making it a big deal. And the fact you keep going on and on about it is only making it even clear how much you're making it a big deal when nobody seems to care in the slightest.

    Yes My post total about Tyler does say something, It says he's my favorite player on the team! A fact that I've made very clear in one of my first post here and something I've never hid in the couple months here. Seriously do really think you've unearthed some big unknown secret here or something?

    You are literally hijacking the thread over an additional comment about Tyler that has nothing to do with him getting more shots or anything that would benefit him. Then you're going on and on about this agenda in a thread that where I'm looking for the guy Tyler backs up to get a bigger chunk of the offense which could cost him time!
    I've written like a paragraph on the subject in total and you've written like an essay, and I'm the one hijacking the thread! I think you're love for Hans has blinded your reality... I actually find your obsession humorous, I'm not complaining, like you are. If it really bothers you so much then don't comment, simple as that. The only person that's bothered here is you...

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Does anyone else think that barring injury that David West will be even better next season?

    A summer to get in better shape, more time with the team, doesn't have to get in shape during training camp, no rehabilitation on his ACL...

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Does anyone else think that barring injury that David West will be even better next season?

    A summer to get in better shape, more time with the team, doesn't have to get in shape during training camp, no rehabilitation on his ACL...
    West will no doubt come back better next year! He got off to a slow start with his shot this year after basically getting back into game shape during live action. He's also a little off when forced to play on back-to-back nights, That shouldn't be a issue next year coming in stronger and then not having to deal with this years grueling condensed schedule.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    BTW, here is the data the article alludes to:

    http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits...-2012&team=IND

    These are actually fairly startling data, which expose our relative lack of depth.

    It's also interesting to see how playing Hill at the 2 seems perhaps more effective than George... however there's a small sample size there, and George's game has really come on here lately.
    I had a plus minus thread earlier in the season which I haven't updated. The lineup with George Hill at the 2 was played mostly early in the season (because Hill has been injured until recently) and has since been overtaken by other lineups in total minutes. But with Hill healthy again we could see more of that lineup.

    I think the only conclusion to draw from plus-minus right now is that we have a very good starting lineup, dominating even, but we've been struggling with an inconsistent bench. All of which are probably evident even without looking at plus-minus

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    He's a great fit. And he's 11 months away from an 18 month injury -- if a full recovery happens at all. Plus, David is moving better now that he was at the start of the season.

    Love watching him play. Smart and never panics. Always moves to the right spot.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    I think you can make a very strong case that West is our most valuable player. He is what I like to call the guy that makes everything work. He more than any other player brings the team together, he makes the pieces fit together, it is our glue guy. And it has been quite awhile since we've had a glue guy. The only real way to understand and see his value to our team is to take him away from the court, locker room, the planes, practice, walk throughs, meetings, huddles, bench if he wasn't on our team we would not be nearly as good.

    Even though I alluded to it in the paragraph above, let me just say point blank he is our team leader. he has sacrificed his game for the good of the team, and he's made his teammates better and he is a huge reason why we have the 5th best record in the NBA right now.

    You'll notice I have not and will not mention any stats in this post. His value cannot be captured by stats.

    I mentioned this after seeing him play a game or two in a Pacers uniform. Wow he really knows how to play. He is a fully formed NBA player. He's not a young guy who is trying to learn how to play, he already knows how to play. A player like that gives the rest of the team a lot of confidence.

    (sure I wish he was a better defender, I wish he had the athleticism of a young KG)
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-01-2012 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Good thing he is not talking about West's D.

    I cannot believe I am going to post this, but there is more to the NBA than defense. No, no one has hacked into my account. West does everything else so well for the Pacers I can live with his defense the way it is.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    Numbers and stats aren't everything and DW makes such an impact on the floor and has unselfishly passed up shots that he would have taken to make that extra pass to get us in a better shot. I have been pleasently surprised with the leadership that DW has integrated in this team. He has been a team player through thick and thin.
    That, but really from what I've seen of him on the floor (how he talks to Roy) and what Hibbert himself has said about their relationship, it almost sounds to me like we can thank David West for getting Roy to this all-star level; I think it's been huge for him. A great offensive fit on the floor, and a great mentor / 'big brother' in terms of teaching him, encouraging him, that kind of thing.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I cannot believe I am going to post this, but there is more to the NBA than defense. No, no one has hacked into my account. West does everything else so well for the Pacers I can live with his defense the way it is.
    This sounds great and all but if he keeps playing the same type of defense he has been playing until now we won't be moving pass the 1st round, his D is horrible, his offense is not that great either.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    The Pacers aren't going to make it out of the first round, because of how badly DWest is on defense?

    Here, waste your time with this instead. Pee away.


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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This sounds great and all but if he keeps playing the same type of defense he has been playing until now we won't be moving pass the 1st round, his D is horrible, his offense is not that great either.
    DW is worth every penny we payed him, and I'll tell you why (don't kill me for this until you take the time to understand what I'm saying): From a mentorship standpoint, David West has been like the David Robinson to Roy Hibbert's Tim Duncan; that is something that is invaluable to a guy like Roy.

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This sounds great and all but if he keeps playing the same type of defense he has been playing until now we won't be moving pass the 1st round, his D is horrible, his offense is not that great either.
    I'm with vnzla81 on this one. I've been underwhelmed on-court, overwhelmed off-court. He is a great teammate and locker room presence, which is really what the Pacers need most out of him, but he misses a lot of bunnies and defensive assignments. You can see it too, he gets so frustrated with himself. I do attribute this to the ACL injury, and believe he will be closer to form next season. And when that happens, look out!!!!

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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    I was advocating hard for David West, of all the FA we could have brought in. I felt he would fit much better than say NeNe, for many of the reasons above

    West can get his own shot, back his man down, pick and pop , and he really complements Roy. Looking at NeNe's play this season I am sooooooooooo glad we didnt buck up the brinks truck and unload on him

    Also, yet another reason I strongly dislike Hollingers "PER"

    the PER shows he is having a bad year, but clearly we know the difference
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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    As long as our perimeter defense is strong David West's defensive weaknesses can be masked. However as with during that 5 game skid if our peremiter defense is non existant than his lack of shot blocking, lateral quickness & frankly effort becomes a major issue. So while Vnzla81 is going a little overboard by saying that alone will cost us the first round he is not incorrect for pointing out that there certainly is a problem there. Trader Joe is also correct.

    Our power forward help defense is actually a very big trouble spot for us. Now man to man defense they both hold their own, but stepping up to cut off the drivers is non-extistant when either of them is on the floor.


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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    This is a perfect example to me of why teams dont win "on paper"

    I give MAD PROPS to Bird and company the way they quitely went about signing West. Bird knew , probably through talking with others and directly with West his greatest contributions would be intangibles like leadership/communication, keeping plpayers focused, etc

    If Bird pulls another coup before the deadline, he will have executive of the year sewn up in my book
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    Default Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    As long as our perimeter defense is strong David West's defensive weaknesses can be masked. However as with during that 5 game skid if our peremiter defense is non existant than his lack of shot blocking, lateral quickness & frankly effort becomes a major issue. So while Vnzla81 is going a little overboard by saying that alone will cost us the first round he is not incorrect for pointing out that there certainly is a problem there. Trader Joe is also correct.

    Our power forward help defense is actually a very big trouble spot for us. Now man to man defense they both hold their own, but stepping up to cut off the drivers is non-extistant when either of them is on the floor.
    My point of not making out the first round is because I am looking at the playoffs match ups and there are probably 3 teams that have power forwards that are as equal or as bad defenders as Dwest(Chicago, Sixers, Orlando), other than that I don't see a power forward that West could stop for doing his thing.

    Ignoring his defense because he makes good passes and is a good leader is ridiculous to me, didn't we destroy Troy Murphy for his horrible D for years even though he was putting better numbers than West? crazy right?

    Again, to win on the playoffs you need to play defense, there is a reason why Tom T always uses Gibson to shut people down instead of Boozer's passing ability and shooting, you win with defense.


    edit: I mentioned Orlando and Philly but if I remember correctly our power forwards made their guys look like Hall of Famers(Young and Anderson).
    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-01-2012 at 01:26 PM.

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