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Thread: Trade Wants vs. Needs

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    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
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    Default Trade Wants vs. Needs

    There's a lot of trade rumors out there, which are only going to get worse tomorrow when a lot of previously-traded players become available to move again. The Pacers need to add a few pieces to remain competitive, and prove they're no first-round exits.

    Who do we get rid of? Who do we pick up? Who is realistically attainable?

    Words in the grapevine say Steve Nash may depart Phoenix; Leandro Barbosa may get shipped out of Toronto to make room for Wilson Chandler; Chris Kaman may or may not be available, due to recently being granted playing time; Monta Ellis is all over the trade block, but supposedly has been for two years; Rajon Rondo and the rest of the Celtics might get moved, but Danny Ainge could just be pulling the league's collective chain.

    I personally only want to go for two of those players mentioned above. But do we need someone with a big name and big game to join the team? Or are there "lesser" players who can do the job we need, and then some?

    Can JaJuan Johnson, Ryan Hollins, Jeremy Tyler, Jordan Hill, or Earl Clark good enough replacements for Chris Kaman, and/or back-ups for David West and Roy Hibbert? Would Luke Ridnour, Ramon Sessions, Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic, Greivis Vasquez, or even Elliot Williams be able to out-perform AJ Price's capabilities as a pass-first point guard? Adding the "pivotal" high-volume scorer could be as easy as adding two medium-volume scorers, one of which who can contribute more assists to the better/more valuable/more consistent scorers.

    Who can we pick up? Do we just take a couple more lower-quality players (compared to Nash, Monta) who can fill the voids, while stealing some draft picks who can outperform them in the next couple of years? What does Larry Bird have in mind that's going to "strengthen" this team? I don't see us picking up an Eric Gordon this year, so what can make this team better without destroying it in the process?

    Genuinely interested in intelligent responses. We need to make moves, Larry's going to, I'm just impatient and want them to happen as soon as possible, so the team can get used to each other, and we can get ready for the playoffs.
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    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    See, I guess I'm in the minority. I don't think we need to make any big moves at this time. I'm happy where our team is at.

    That said, if you're able to trade some cap space and a guy like Juice for a role player and maybe a 1st rounder, you do it. But, I just don't feel comfortable in trading any of our Core 8-9 guys at this time.

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    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    See, I guess I'm in the minority. I don't think we need to make any big moves at this time. I'm happy where our team is at.

    That said, if you're able to trade some cap space and a guy like Juice for a role player and maybe a 1st rounder, you do it. But, I just don't feel comfortable in trading any of our Core 8-9 guys at this time.
    The only way I'm comfortable losing core players is if quality players are acquired as well. Steve Nash + 1st for DC + Hans is an example. Even if we can't pick up a simple PF to replace Hansbrough (via trade or FA), Steve Nash's court vision and scoring alone can make up for Hans' absence. In addition to that, the first round pick could go a LONG way beyond that.

    Just an example, but I don't really want us to lose Hill, George, Granger, West, or Hibbert at this point. The rest of the players (despite Coach Vogel's lineup) have value to other teams, whom we can trade for players who have more value to our team. I'm proud of all of our players for doing what they have, but if you can make an obvious upgrade, while getting rid of (potentially) dead-end players, you don't say no.
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I'd like for the Pacers to make a move. Pacers def need a backup C. I still think Robin Lopez would be a great fit.

    Would love Reggie Jackson, but with Maynor out for the season, I'm not sure the Thunder would trade him.

    If anything though, please, Pacers, try to secure another first round pick (middle round would be fine) at the expense of taking a huge expiring contract (hopefully expiring, not multiple years).
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    The only way I'm comfortable losing core players is if quality players are acquired as well. Steve Nash + 1st for DC + Hans is an example. Even if we can't pick up a simple PF to replace Hansbrough (via trade or FA), Steve Nash's court vision and scoring alone can make up for Hans' absence. In addition to that, the first round pick could go a LONG way beyond that.

    Just an example, but I don't really want us to lose Hill, George, Granger, West, or Hibbert at this point. The rest of the players (despite Coach Vogel's lineup) have value to other teams, whom we can trade for players who have more value to our team. I'm proud of all of our players for doing what they have, but if you can make an obvious upgrade, while getting rid of (potentially) dead-end players, you don't say no.
    The only players I wouldn't mind getting traded (doesn't mean I don't like them) is DC, Hans, Price, Lou, Pends. Possibly Hill if the Pacers were getting something pretty good in return.
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I'm wondering if the amount of minutes A.J. has been getting recently is to raise his value or it's simply because he's playing well. Maybe it's a little of both. I'll be honest I think some kind of move needs to be made just because of the struggles we have had against Miami. The team looks like it has a new sense of urgency after the All-Star break, but we all know that when this team looks really good they can look really bad the next game. I would love for us to add any of these guys: Marcin Gortat, Leandro Barbosa, and Chris Kaman. I know Gortat hasn't been mentioned as being on the block or anything, but I think he is exactly the guy we need to backup Roy. We are still lacking that scorer off the bench to pair with Hill and Hansbrough when they don't have it going. Barbosa is that kind of guy. I'm not gonna be mad if we don't make a move necessarily because we have a solid team.

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I think that Raymond Felton is the way to go. For Felton, I'll give them a first, and Felton could pan out to be a huge player for us, in a similar role as Mark Jackson back in the day. As the team grows, he grows, and he will finally have the opportunity to have a stable role. He can get into shape and work his *** off knowing that he is running the team. That is when the defense and court vision comes into play. I don't think there's any doubt that he'd be available. He's no sexy choice, but neither was David West, and we'd still keep DC and give him the role he would suit best, a spark plug off the bench. We would have 48 minutes of solid point guard play, and Raymond Felton has a real chance to become a difference maker here. We like two-way players, and Felton is one of those guys.

    I would be willing to absorb Barbosa or Kaman for nothing for sure.

    I like Reggie Jackson of course, but we don't know if he's really available.

    If the Nets need trade partners to facilitate a Dwight Howard trade, we need to look into Anthony Morrow or Marshon Brooks. They would be great additions for cheap, and they would be steals. I think in the right situations, two years from now, they could be leading scorers on a team.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 02-29-2012 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    There's a lot of trade rumors out there, which are only going to get worse tomorrow when a lot of previously-traded players become available to move again. The Pacers need to add a few pieces to remain competitive, and prove they're no first-round exits.

    Who do we get rid of? Who do we pick up? Who is realistically attainable?

    Words in the grapevine say Steve Nash may depart Phoenix; Leandro Barbosa may get shipped out of Toronto to make room for Wilson Chandler; Chris Kaman may or may not be available, due to recently being granted playing time; Monta Ellis is all over the trade block, but supposedly has been for two years; Rajon Rondo and the rest of the Celtics might get moved, but Danny Ainge could just be pulling the league's collective chain.

    I personally only want to go for two of those players mentioned above. But do we need someone with a big name and big game to join the team? Or are there "lesser" players who can do the job we need, and then some?

    Can JaJuan Johnson, Ryan Hollins, Jeremy Tyler, Jordan Hill, or Earl Clark good enough replacements for Chris Kaman, and/or back-ups for David West and Roy Hibbert? Would Luke Ridnour, Ramon Sessions, Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic, Greivis Vasquez, or even Elliot Williams be able to out-perform AJ Price's capabilities as a pass-first point guard? Adding the "pivotal" high-volume scorer could be as easy as adding two medium-volume scorers, one of which who can contribute more assists to the better/more valuable/more consistent scorers.

    Who can we pick up? Do we just take a couple more lower-quality players (compared to Nash, Monta) who can fill the voids, while stealing some draft picks who can outperform them in the next couple of years? What does Larry Bird have in mind that's going to "strengthen" this team? I don't see us picking up an Eric Gordon this year, so what can make this team better without destroying it in the process?

    Genuinely interested in intelligent responses. We need to make moves, Larry's going to, I'm just impatient and want them to happen as soon as possible, so the team can get used to each other, and we can get ready for the playoffs.

    I don't expect a Chris Kaman, but I'd like to see Bird pick up Robin Lopez. Young athletic 7' who the Suns aren't using much to b/u Hibbert. Shouldn't cost much. If the Pacers finish out the season where their pick would be in the 20's, I wouldn't balk at trading the 012 1st pick for him.

    Elliot Williams was injured most of last year and has not played much this year. Not sure of your interest in him. Are you sure he's a PG??

    I know this isn't going to happen, but I'd like to see the Pacers do a S&T for Wilson Chandler. He can score and play "D". Could be the heir apparent to Granger at SF future core player. Lock him up long term for a reasonable contract.

    I'd also be interested in Ray Allen to get the Pacers into the 2nd rd of the playoffs if the price is right. He's a player that can bring instant offense off the bench. Not sure what it would cost, might be to pricey.

    I'd gamble on DC and AJ to finish out the season at PG.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I don't expect a Chris Kaman, but I'd like to see Bird pick up Robin Lopez. Young athletic 7' who the Suns aren't using much to b/u Hibbert. Shouldn't cost much. If the Pacers finish out the season where their pick would be in the 20's, I wouldn't balk at trading the 012 1st pick for him.

    Elliot Williams was injured most of last year and has not played much this year. Not sure of your interest in him. Are you sure he's a PG??

    I know this isn't going to happen, but I'd like to see the Pacers do a S&T for Wilson Chandler. He can score and play "D". Could be the heir apparent to Granger at SF future core player. Lock him up long term for a reasonable contract.

    I'd also be interested in Ray Allen to get the Pacers into the 2nd rd of the playoffs if the price is right. He's a player that can bring instant offense off the bench. Not sure what it would cost, might be to pricey.

    I'd gamble on DC and AJ to finish out the season at PG.
    I know he hasn't shot much but Elliot Williams is shooting 38% from the charity stripe. hahahaha

    He's also no point.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I think a MAJOR move is going to cost us too much that could affect Team Chemistry. Given how well we are doing with what we have but the obvious holes that we need to plug up in our rotation....I think that a minor move to shore up the Wing and Backup Center rotation will immensely help the Team.

    If the options were available, I'd prefer to look into these type of Players to fill out our rotation ( in this order ):

    1 ) A "decent to solid" Scoring SF that can play some SG minutes that can play 20-24 mpg that has an expiring Contract.

    2 ) A "solid Backup Center" that is also considered an "acceptable but not great Starting Center" that isn't absolutely inept on the offensive or defensive end of the court that can consistently play 15 to 18 mpg and has an Expiring Contract.

    3 ) A "solid Backup Center" that is also considered an "decent Starting Center" that isn't absolutely inept on the offensive or defensive end of the court that can consistently play 15 to 18 mpg that has a 2 year Contract .

    4 ) A "solid" Scoring SF that can play some SG minutes that can play 20-24 mpg that has a 2 year Contract.
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I guess our biggest needs at the moment are a better starting point guard and a backup guard who can score the ball.
    About the starting point guard upgrade, I don't think it's going to happen this season. There are many point guards in the league who are better than Collison, but the "semi" upgrades aren't worth it (Why break your chemistry?) and the really good ones won't be available without trading good pieces.
    Backup guard, I think there are many options available. I wouldn't trade our 1st round pick for a backup though. If Toronto needs to shed Barbosa, or Nets need to shed Morrow or Farmar, then I'd send them a 2nd. These trades will only happen under specific circumstances though, so I wouldn't really count on them.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    See, I guess I'm in the minority. I don't think we need to make any big moves at this time. I'm happy where our team is at.

    That said, if you're able to trade some cap space and a guy like Juice for a role player and maybe a 1st rounder, you do it. But, I just don't feel comfortable in trading any of our Core 8-9 guys at this time.
    start out with a caveat. i'm probably nit-picking here.

    with the salary cap, a team doesn't have a core of 8 or 9 guys. a team has a core of 3,4 or maybe 5 guys that the rest of the team is built around. the pacer core is danny, paul and roy. the rest of the guys are there to help the core win. some by playing and some by being traded.

    if the pacers can add a guy to the core, trading anyone not named danny, paul or roy would be ok with me. but the guy coming in has to be a near max guy. otherwise i don't really care who gets traded or not.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    start out with a caveat. i'm probably nit-picking here.

    with the salary cap, a team doesn't have a core of 8 or 9 guys. a team has a core of 3,4 or maybe 5 guys that the rest of the team is built around. the pacer core is danny, paul and roy. the rest of the guys are there to help the core win. some by playing and some by being traded.

    if the pacers can add a guy to the core, trading anyone not named danny, paul or roy would be ok with me. but the guy coming in has to be a near max guy. otherwise i don't really care who gets traded or not.
    Yes, you are nit-picking. I was implying the 8-9 guys that get heavy minutes on a regular rotation each night.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    You don't give a first for Felton at this point, he is not even starting anymore.

    Not sure what trade if any I would go after, but I would be interested in hearing what offers the Pacers are getting.

    I just hope that any trade we do is more focused on getting younger than getting Older, no Ray Allen please...
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Team Needs: A better starting PG, a backup 4/5 that's athletic (athletic bigs just kill the Pacers, a backup 2/3 that can shoot/score the ball in limited mins.

    Team Wants: A superstar (unless drafted, this will most likely not happen), a consistent scoring threat SOMEWHERE within the team

    I think I am in the minority in thinking that we need to make a trade in order to ensure 100% that we make it out of the first round. (Our record against the teams we are most likely to play in the first round; Phi, ORL, ATL, BOS: 4-5. And we haven't played NY yet)

    I think it would be beneficial to utilize the opportunity that we have, and add a piece or two to ensure at the very least that we are able to get out of the first round, and build some momentum into next season.

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  21. #16

    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Yes, you are nit-picking. I was implying the 8-9 guys that get heavy minutes on a regular rotation each night.
    sorry about that then

    the use of the word core messed me up.

  22. #17

    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I'm not sure what we need, which is why I'd be hesitant to change anything.

    Either this team is a young group of guys who we are going to watch grow, and make a few alterations as needed.

    or we're going to try to win now, while we have a few young guys growing.

    If it's the first, I don't know that we make any changes. I think we see how this group performs throughout the year and into the playoffs, and evaluate the things we need by the end. A lot of people suspect we need to upgrade the starting PG position. I'm not sure about that.

    If PG becomes what we think he can become. Granger becomes a good second best player. Hibbert gets better or stays around a borderline All Star level. Then I think our upgrade is going to need to be at the PF, and we'll simply just have to get younger there. (And maybe opt for a more defensive/rebounding oriented player) And we'll only have to worry about that when West comes off his contract. Having an average point guard won't be an issue. So long as DC grows and gets smarter.

    I'd suggest in this scenario, all we may need is a backup Center. And that's really only if we think Foster will be unreliable in the playoffs. Otherwise, that's something we can acquire in the summer.

    We have to remember, we have to give something to get something. Cap space isn't going to do it. So doing something like DC for Felton..okay maybe, but there's some good odds that DC ends up a better player than Felton, and DC is more the age of our core. And in the end, they're both just average point guards. That's a horizontal move.

    Could our bench use some scoring? Yea, maybe. But I'm not sure I want to get it, only for the fact that I don't want anyone taking PG's time. And I also think between Hill, AJ, and Tyler - they may all have some consistency problems, but odds are pretty good at least one of them will be scoring well in a game. And team's have to respect all of them.

    If we're going with the second. Then I'd say everyone is on the table to be traded except Hibbert and PG. And you try to acquire a few really good starters. Maybe Ray Allen and Steve Nash. But then you are trying to win "NOW" and with West, Nash,and Allen on the Roster, we'll be rebuilding again quickly. (I'd imagine in that scenario, if we're lucky enough to not have to give away Granger. Which with players like those two, we might not. We will have to give away a lot of our depth and draft picks, making rebuilding a little difficult.)

    I don't suggest doing this. Personally because I think it's more gratifying to watch a team grow - and looking back, it will be more fun. But also because I think it's better to build from the ground up, and slowly. With the way the team is growing, in a few years (when Hibbert and PG are close to peak) they'll be contenders. Now, we're giving them chances to learn in the playoffs. Guys need to fail a few times before they win.

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    Member Indra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    I'd like to see either Kaman or Ray Allen coming off the bench for us in the second half. If the price is too high I'm okay with getting neither, but either one would make me happy for the right price.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    You don't give a first for Felton at this point, he is not even starting anymore.

    Not sure what trade if any I would go after, but I would be interested in hearing what offers the Pacers are getting.

    I just hope that any trade we do is more focused on getting younger than getting Older, no Ray Allen please...
    he and nate talked and they both agreed he isnt playing good so hes coming off the bench, i doubt they trade him.

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    Default Re: Trade Wants vs. Needs

    The only move I would like to see the team do is get a back-up C, and only if it doesn't cost anything major. So something like Admundson, Jones, and a 2nd round pick or two. The chances of that happening are slim to none, so I guess I'm on the side of don't make any moves unless it is to aquire a young asset with potential for a few second round picks.

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