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Thread: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

  1. #26
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    What a great read. I remember exactly where I was that night and as soon as the brawl happened I was on the phone calling people to make sure they saw it too.
    That team really was a great team. Most sports writers predicited us to come out of the east that year. That game was a nationally televised game and probably was one the biggest sporting events going on that week( even with the NFL).
    It has taken us almost 8 years to get back to a place where we are even metioned in the top half of the eastern conference. This team is on a big upswing and I hope nothing knocks them off of it like what happened 8 years ago. If they keeping playing like they are now, maybe next season we will have the same expectations that the 2004 team did before that one horrible night.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    But at the same time, when Jax uses this as an example of how good of a teammate he is, it makes you stratch your head. He shouldn't be glorifying the situation. Should be extremely embarassed, instead of patting himself on the back.
    Yeah, I agree. I guess I understand the "street mentality", but I don't have to like it.

    Which, to me, is a reason why the dress code was a good thing. Like any other uniform, if you have to dress differently than you would do every day (or might have while you were growing up), it makes you separate yourself from those everyday (or youthful) emotions. You treat the world differently in a suit than you do in jams and a long T.
    BillS

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    I remember being mad at Stephen Jackson when he was still arguing with Ben Wallace. I kept saying Ron is just lying on the table, just walk away Jackson and it will be all over.

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    I remember being mad at Stephen Jackson when he was still arguing with Ben Wallace. I kept saying Ron is just lying on the table, just walk away Jackson and it will be all over.
    I was a junior in college. I was drunk in my fraternity house. Like most of us I had a downright hatred for the Pistons at the time. I was 100% behind our guys. I was loving that JO threw a punch at "Turtle," loved the dustpan, loved that Jackson went to the defense of his new teammates. I went to bed feeling drunk and satisfied after watching the media place all the blame on Detroit.

    I woke up the next day with one of the worst hangovers/realizations I've ever had in my life.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I still completely disagree with anyone who thinks the brawl didn't set the Pacers back. It ABSOLUTELY did. Case in point: Why do you think Ron demanded a trade? The fallout of that night is absolutely at least one big part of the reason why Artest did that. It's not just what happened that night, it's the MOUNTAIN OF FALLOUT AND CONSEQUENCES; THE DOMINO EFFECT that set the Pacers back.
    I see your point, and I agree. I'm just saying I think people forget they were still good the next year, but the trade request really blew everything up.


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  9. #31
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    I was glad they mentioned how the team was hurt by Ron's trade request after they had his back through the ordeal, but what they didn't mention was how for the most part the fans stayed behind Ron and supported him, not to mention Larry and the front office. So he didn't just hurt some players' feelings, he turned his back on the entire fan base and crushed our dreams dreams of one last title run for Reggie. I remember feeling hurt and betrayed, then just downright pissed.

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  11. #32
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    You'll never convince me that had Pacers been from Los Angeles, Chicago or New York that David Stern would have down on them so hard. The fact even Larry Bird expected only a 10 game suspention of Ron shows, how heavy handed Stern was.

    Jermaine O'Neal , once again to me showed he is a class guy. He to this day feels sorry he could not bring a Championship to Indianapolis.

    All you have to read to see how unbalanced Ron Artest , was or still is was; his comment - Do you think we'll be in trouble - that is totally unreal.

    The sad part is I truly believe Jermaine was right the Pacers would have won the title that season and maybe a couple more. In many ways they could have become another San Antonio Spurs, a respected multi-championship franchise.

    Sadly due to several forces coming together in the Palace to create the Perfect Storm that never happened. The events that followed Ron's trade demand mainly , robbed the Franchise and fans of the joy of glory. Who knows if it will ever come ?
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 02-29-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Great read.

    I know this is immature on my part, but I still haven't forgiven Artest for all of the damage he caused this franchise. While his apology to Indiana after the Lakers won the Finals was a decent gesture, it wasn't good enough for me. There was no satisfactory atonement to the Pacers or the fans for his actions.

    I think we were all under the impression the following season that Artest was going to try to make amends for all that he had done, that he would come back with a fire and something to prove.

    And what did we get? Whining about wanting time off to promote his crappy CD and and a trade demand one month into the season.

    Sorry Ron, no apology is good enough. You better come back and do something really extraordinary for the Indianapolis community or something.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Wow dude, thanks so much for sharing this. Has a lot of insight. Any NBA fan who heard about or had seen the incident must read this.

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    The one thing that has been going through my mind (I'm only 1/2 way through the article) is that the city was behind this team and Ron 100% during this entire ordeal, the sentencing/suspensions, the appeals process and the aftermath. Attendance was good.

    We took replacement players, got Dale Davis back and made it to the second round of the playoffs against... The Pistons, mind you.

    It wasn't until the Tinsley/SJax off-court things happened that soured everyone.

    This entire chain of events should've been on ESPN's 30 for 30. It would've made an amazing documentary. At least that's how I'm envisioning this article in my mind as I read.

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  18. #36
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Very true Duke they should still do a 30 for 30 on it.

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    The one thing that has been going through my mind (I'm only 1/2 way through the article) is that the city was behind this team and Ron 100% during this entire ordeal, the sentencing/suspensions, the appeals process and the aftermath. Attendance was good.

    We took replacement players, got Dale Davis back and made it to the second round of the playoffs against... The Pistons, mind you.

    It wasn't until the Tinsley/SJax off-court things happened that soured everyone.

    This entire chain of events should've been on ESPN's 30 for 30. It would've made an amazing documentary. At least that's how I'm envisioning this article in my mind as I read.
    Exactly. The coaching job Carlisle did that season was amazing. I'd like for them to do a 30 for 30 and have insights from Britton Johnson, Tremaine Fowlkes and Michael Curry.


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  22. #38
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Always ALWAYS will remember how Stern punked the *** out of us

    Ben Wallace started it, but got the least suspension of all parties involved
    I hate David Stern. Partly because he's awful at his job, partly because he was the architect behind the labor agreement in '99 that was just awful and gave way to much money to the players, partly because he believes that big market teams are the only way to grow the NBA, but mainly for his rulings after the brawl.

    In any other sport in any other country in the world, the team responsible for not being able to control it's fans would be the team to be heavily punished. Suspension were due, though I think they were unfairly harsh on the Pacers and oddly light to Detroit, but the Detroit organization should have been punished for failure to control it's fans. Loss of draft picks, ban from post season play for a couple years, some sort of revenue loss, implimentation of a crowd control scheme, etc... This event epitomized everything that is wrong with Stern (except his hair, which is just wrong in it's own right). He made a lot of noise, punished the players of the smaller revenue generating team unfairly, didn't punish the awful refs (which would have saved him a lot of embarrassment later) and then completely failed to deal with the big issue of lack of organization fan control.

    IMO Stern has been an awful commissioner and I'm amazed he is still around. This was probably one of his worst in a long line of mistakes. Could you imagine if he'd managed to force through the Chris Paul to LA trade? One of the most one-sided trades ever proposed in the NBA. Luckily there are now out-spoken (and rich) owners of small-market teams who have had enough of his bull.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    You left out Marcus Haislip.

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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    I have to be honest: While there's things I did and still do like about him, upon reflecting back on his entire time with our franchise (remember he had plenty of issues BEFORE that night; fighting with JO, breaking things, unnecessary flagrant fouls, already requesting a trade, etc.) while simultaneously working my way through the article this morning... part of me hates Ron Artest and that he ever wore our jersey. Even if he can't help it, the guy was a freaking menace, and his presence caused more harm that I ever could have possibly imagined. It still haunts me / the team / the community's relationship with the team to this very day.

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  27. #41
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    Could you imagine if he'd managed to force through the Chris Paul to LA trade? One of the most one-sided trades ever proposed in the NBA. Luckily there are now out-spoken (and rich) owners of small-market teams who have had enough of his bull.

  28. #42
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    What a fantastic read. I still remember where I was on that night. I was sitting with some friends at home and none of us could believe what we were witnessing.

    What I could not believe was how one sided the coverage was the next day. There was barely anyone ripping how the fans reacted. All the blame was put on the Pacers and how we were the villains. How that POS not thrown the beer none of this would have happened.

    To me fans have got worse in every sport. The media could have covered how fans are feeling way to entitled once they buy the tickets. I have the disposable income to go to Pacers and Colts games, but I choose to just stay home and watch because half the time I cannot stand being around fans of my own team. God forbid you want to go to a game that is an away game.

  29. #43

    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    I know JO has been a polarizing figure among Pacers fans, but I think everyone can agree that the guy genuinely cared about the city of Indianapolis in a way few athletes do.

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  31. #44
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I have to be honest: While there's things I did and still do like about him, upon reflecting back on his entire time with our franchise (remember he had plenty of issues BEFORE that night; fighting with JO, breaking things, unnecessary flagrant fouls, already requesting a trade, etc.) while simultaneously working my way through the article this morning... part of me hates Ron Artest and that he ever wore our jersey. Even if he can't help it, the guy was a freaking menace, and his presence caused more harm that I ever could have possibly imagined. It still haunts me / the team / the community's relationship with the team to this very day.
    And the sad part is that we were so blinded with winning, Band-Aids were the only remedy for Ron. They'll just cover it up and hope Ron gets better.

    "Let's just not let Monteith get wind of this.."

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  33. #45

    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    After reading this, I'm convinced that Ron Artest is a 10 year-old child trapped in a man's body.

  34. #46

    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    And whoever said they thought Tyler is the only guy on the team that could do something like this now... I just... what? Tyler Hansbrough? Are we thinking of the same guy? Sure, he's scrappy on the court, but he doesn't trash talk, he doesn't lose his cool, and opposing teams clearly don't like him.

    Also, have you never heard of Lance Stephenson?

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  36. #47
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    A couple of thoughts as a [admitetly biased] Pacers fan

    - I never realized Tim D. was a ref that evening

    - After reading that I dislike Artest even more. I know its wrong, but his mentality and lack of caring just show something was off

    - I always blamed Ben Wallace, I actually blame his less

    - This article fires me up even more about how @#$%^ the security was and how the arena had 3-4 security guards. That is a joke

    - Really, the police are going to wait 10 minutes to do anything, and then choose to pepper spray Pacers? And then they come to arrest Pacers players? Total cluster $%^&

    - I still hate Stern........he came down hard on the Pacers, too hard IMO, and that Bird quote was telling.

    - Interesting to hear people say something about the announcers being so pro-player. IMO the NBA was far too pro-Detroit, and refused to say anything bad about the arena or [lack of] security

    - The refs were useless....would loved a quick ejection of both players

    - This article didnt refrence it, but I remember a quote by a Pistons person (maybe a front office PR person) who basically blamed the whole thing on Artest. That comment pissed me off, and still does, but sadly after having years to think about it, no mo-ron type of actions, and Indiana possibly has a championship that year

    - Wasnt that the same year as the bomb thread at the Palace for a Indiana - Detroit game? Or am I getting my years mixed up?

    - I truly beleived at the time, and agree that the dress code was a result of the brawl

    - As much as I hated Stern, and still do, I am shocked at how unprepared the refs were, and how poor the security was that night
    Last edited by vapacersfan; 02-29-2012 at 01:44 PM.

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  38. #48
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Which, to me, is a reason why the dress code was a good thing. Like any other uniform, if you have to dress differently than you would do every day (or might have while you were growing up), it makes you separate yourself from those everyday (or youthful) emotions. You treat the world differently in a suit than you do in jams and a long T.
    I disagree. The worst and most destructive decisions in history were made by people in uniforms or suits. In my opinion, the dress code was not about changing player behavior as much as it was about changing fans' perception of that behavior.

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  40. #49

    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I disagree. The worst and most destructive decisions in history were made by people in uniforms or suits. In my opinion, the dress code was not about changing player behavior as much as it was about changing fans' perception of that behavior.
    You're absolutely right. The funny thing is, the NBA still has that image of its players being "overpayed thugs", even after enforcing the dress code policy. It'd be interesting to examine why that image persists, because, as far as I can tell, every pro-sports league in America has it's fair share of ******* players.

  41. #50
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Oral History of the Malice in the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I disagree. The worst and most destructive decisions in history were made by people in uniforms or suits. In my opinion, the dress code was not about changing player behavior as much as it was about changing fans' perception of that behavior.
    I'll disregard the first part but the bolded part hits the nail on the head.

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