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Thread: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Price has raised his shooting percentage to a blistering 37%. Of course, once defenses start to focus more on him, we can expect it to plummet. He's also at 1.9:1 assist-to-turnover ratio. Stockton, Magic: Watch out!

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I have no idea how you read this tweet, and then made the flying leap to "this proves" anything.

    It proves absolutely nothing.
    I haven't seen the tweet so don't know what that has to do with it.

    But, apart from the tweet, the fact that Vogel benched Lance for AJ does seem to "prove" the point that Vogel is not under a current "mandate" from Bird to give Lance a certain amount of minutes each game.
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  4. #28
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by luis3ep View Post
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    It's hard for Lance to be effective when: 1.) he's not handling the ball much at all 2.) they have NO plays for him, so he basically has to just sit there in the corner.

    Guys, it's not hard at all... we've seen glimpses of what Lance is capable of, he's just really excited out there and sometimes tries too hard and messes up. When he's on it, no one on this team is capable of passing the ball like him or dribbling past his opponent and driving to the hoop. If the team actually "gave him the keys to the car" he would easily show his worth. It makes me mad seeing him being so limited.. they make him the last option offensively when he's out there which is a joke because he's easily the most talented offensive player when he's out there with the second-third team. He's medium risk high reward in my eyes. The question hasn't been " i wonder if he's gonna stay out of trouble" anymore.. it's "can he prove it on the court now?" which is a nice thing to worry about because those who know a little about the game know he'll be good if he keeps up the hard work and cuts down on the turnovers.

    not to compare him to Jeremy Lin, but if the pacers "handed him the keys" for the # of games Lin played for the Knicks before all star break, i'm sure he'd have less turnovers, although i'm very sure not as much points. The guy just needs to PLAY!!

    /rant
    I like your post but to be real, we cannot afford to do this right now with it being halfway through the season. Maybe next year, I'm rooting for Lance too.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I haven't seen the tweet so don't know what that has to do with it.

    But, apart from the tweet, the fact that Vogel benched Lance for AJ does seem to "prove" the point that Vogel is not under a current "mandate" from Bird to give Lance a certain amount of minutes each game.
    It's certainly possible that Bird backed off any mandate, that may have been in place before, once he realized that AJ was a better player for the team.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    How does Wells' tweet prove that? Tell me which part of what you're reading makes you think it proves something.

    It doesn't. Really. It doesn't.
    MAckey

    Had to juice up on caffine to go at you

    Vogel's tweet said AJ will play, Lance basically only in blowout or emergency

    This we can end the rummor that Vogel somehow was mandates to play Lance siognificant minutes, by Bird
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    That doesn't mean it wasn't Bird's idea, or that it was Vogel's. It just means Price has forced them to play him.
    But (hypothetically) if Bird was telling Frank to play Lance in the first place, that would suggest Vogel ALREADY thought AJ Price was the better choice to put in the rotation. So, what, now Frank decided to stop listening to Bird just because AJ had some good games? He already felt like AJ was better to begin with in this hypothetical to begin with!

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    No this proves nothing. It could have been Vogel was under mandate, but after seeing Price play for an extended period of time Bird realized his error. There are a million things this could mean, but there is only one that is not speculation, Price has forced them to play him because of how he has played on the court.
    I guess I'm a little bit hung up on your choice of words here. "Force". Did he really force him? Is that really the right word for this situation? If I bust my butt at work and eventually my boss decides to promote me, did I really "force" him to do it, or did I EARN it? I think earn might be a better choice than force.

    It's semantics, but still.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I have no idea how you read this tweet, and then made the flying leap to "this proves" anything.

    It proves absolutely nothing.
    It proves that IF there WAS a mandate from Bird, it's obviously not still in effect, or otherwise that Vogel has now defied Bird.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    It will be interesting to see whether Larry makes a trade to try to improve the roster at the same time Coach Vogel is trying to streamline his rotations to get us ready for the post-season. If a trade is made, this whole experimenting process will have to be done all over again. That's why I hope, if a trade gets made, it happens sooner rather than later, so the team is accustomed to the respective roles of each player by the time we hit April.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Price has raised his shooting percentage to a blistering 37%. Of course, once defenses start to focus more on him, we can expect it to plummet. He's also at 1.9:1 assist-to-turnover ratio. Stockton, Magic: Watch out!
    I don't see why defenses are going to start "focusing" on a player like AJ Price. It's not worth the effort, to be honest.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    MAckey

    Had to juice up on caffine to go at you

    Vogel's tweet said AJ will play, Lance basically only in blowout or emergency

    This we can end the rummor that Vogel somehow was mandates to play Lance siognificant minutes, by Bird
    Better pop another 5 Hour.

    It wasn't Vogel's tweet. It was a tweet from Mike Wells.

    Vogel said that AJ will be the backup point guard, and Hill the backup shooting guard. Wells then inferred, based on this information, that Lance would only be getting spot minutes in blowout situations.

    Just because he is no longer being mandated to play Lance, doesn't mean that he wasn't mandated before. It would be just as easy to speculate that Bird recognized the error of his ways and backed off, allowing Vogel to make the decisions.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    The thing that gets proven here is that Lance is somewhere between 11-13 in the rotation as he should be at this juncture of his career. I don't think too many people aren't enamored by the raw ability of Lance. It is the lack of basketball maturity and IQ that he is working on. I see the improvement. It might be subtle, but I love how he has begun to work to spots and pass the ball to initiate the offense. It is something that he is consciously doing and there shouldn't be plays run FOR a guy who is 11-13 in the rotation, unless the game is not on the line or we are dealing with a bad foul situation one game. Lance needs to fit into the offense before he can be a full-time passenger on this bus, let alone handed ANY keys.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Also, Bird has repeatedly said he lets his coaches coach. That he doesn't get in the way, but is just there to support the coaching staff.

    So I don't know why there was ever a rumor that Bird mandated anything. We have a very talented young kid that needs to get his feet wet and our coaching staff isn't too stupid to realize that, let alone be mandated by a hands-off GM.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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  22. #39
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    I'm not too surprised. Admittedly, Price has played pretty well for the past couple of games. Honestly, I just think it's more Vogel shortening his rotation with more "NBA ready" players, than a demotion of Lance. Personally, I REALLY like the potential of Lance, and I do believe he has the better court vision, passing skills, and one-on-one dribble penetration skills than DC and Price just based on his raw talent. If he continues to improve at the same pace (preferably quicker) and with the same passion as Roy Hibbert, then we should be to contend each year easily.

    Truth be told, I REALLY wish that the Pacers would send him to D-League where he could get consistent minutes to grow his skills, so he can contribute immediately next season.
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 03-01-2012 at 12:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Better pop another 5 Hour.

    It wasn't Vogel's tweet. It was a tweet from Mike Wells.

    Vogel said that AJ will be the backup point guard, and Hill the backup shooting guard. Wells then inferred, based on this information, that Lance would only be getting spot minutes in blowout situations.

    Just because he is no longer being mandated to play Lance, doesn't mean that he wasn't mandated before. It would be just as easy to speculate that Bird recognized the error of his ways and backed off, allowing Vogel to make the decisions.
    You just like to argue brah

    Its been understood here my point by many others, anything else is semantics
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Anyone remember the tweets Mike Wells would post last season as to why Lance wasn't getting any PT? i recall him repeatedly bashing his defense and how he had to step it up. Call me blind but i think he's picked it up on the defensive end tremendously in just a season. He looks motivated when he's guarding his guy, moving feet, active hands.. drastic increase compared to last year. He's not a good defender yet, but he's getting there.

    I should rephrase myself when i said "giving him the keys to the car" i didn't mean up his minutes to 20-25 a game, what i meant was giving him more liberty out there and letting him do what he wants to do. I hear all this talk about him being a beast in practice but not showing up in games. Practice is nothing like a real game as well all know. Intensity mainly. Practice is more loose and lance can maybe show off or do some fancy things but in a game, he's still not used to the speed of the game and his teammates tendencies. I don't blame him for some of his turnovers although.. i recall a couple plays with (mainly Granger) where he doest a nice pass and they don't expect it and a turnover is committed. Larry called him the most talented player on the pacers for a reason. anyone can and should be able to see the potential this kid has. High ceiling. higher than DC for sure.

    I was against it but i suppose a D-League call up would help him a lot. More minutes, more freedom on the court and competitive basketball!! As you can see i'm a huge Stephenson fan, and want this guy to live up to his potential. He looks like he's on the right path, i just hope he doesn't lose patience and a.) do something stupid b.) go somewhere else.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    You just like to argue brah

    Its been understood here my point by many others, anything else is semantics
    I understood what your point was, but that doesn't make it accurate. Wells' tweet does not prove anything with regards to a possible Bird mandate.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    To think that Bird wanted Lance to get some developmental minutes early in the season is perfectly reasonable, and if that was the case, I can't complain about his number of minutes. Now that we're past the all star break, is it that unreasonable to think that the powers that be are putting the project aside to focus on the home stretch?

    AJ has earned his time and we obviously have to make the most of the remaining games, so bringing Lance along is lower priority now.
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  30. #44

    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    But (hypothetically) if Bird was telling Frank to play Lance in the first place, that would suggest Vogel ALREADY thought AJ Price was the better choice to put in the rotation. So, what, now Frank decided to stop listening to Bird just because AJ had some good games? He already felt like AJ was better to begin with in this hypothetical to begin with!
    I think that was always pretty obvious though. When Lance was hurt, AJ got a significantly more amount of minutes than Lance would. (like 15 to 9)

    It's possibly a number of things. Larry wanted to see how Lance would develop for the first half of the season, so he "mandated" or "requested" Lance get some minutes now. Or AJ's play could have forced Larry's hand. Or the fact that Hill is coming back from injury and we're heading for a tough stretch could mean that we need someone more stable like AJ out there. Or they're hoping his good play will continue, and he - instead of another young play like Tyler, could be used as a "sweetener" type player in a deal.

    But I do think the bottom line is AJ forced them to play him. You just don't bench someone who is playing like AJ is playing. He took DC's minutes twice, kept the bench afloot when no one else was scoring a few times. For the most part, he's been very good defensively. Lance just isn't ready to help out the way AJ currently can.
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-29-2012 at 05:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I think that was always pretty obvious though. When Lance was hurt, AJ got a significantly more amount of minutes than Lance would. (like 15 to 9)

    It's possible a number of things. Larry wanted to see how Lance would develop for the first half of the season, so he "mandated" or "requested" Lance get some minutes now. Or AJ's play could have forced Larry's hand. Or the fact that Hill is coming back from injury and we're heading for a tough stretch could mean that we need someone more stable like AJ out there. Or they're hoping his good play will continue, and he - instead of another young play like Tyler, could be used as a "sweetener" type player in a deal.

    But I do think the bottom line is AJ forced them to play him. You just don't bench someone who is playing like AJ is playing. He took DC's minutes twice, kept the bench afloot when no one else was scoring a few times. For the most part, he's been very good defensively. Lance just isn't ready to help out the way AJ currently can.
    Well put, I agree with the bolded part
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    To think that Bird wanted Lance to get some developmental minutes early in the season is perfectly reasonable, and if that was the case, I can't complain about his number of minutes. Now that we're past the all star break, is it that unreasonable to think that the powers that be are putting the project aside to focus on the home stretch?
    Yes. But let's also remember that Vogel may have agreed with Bird on the need for developmental minutes and Bird may have agreed with Vogel that the experiment should end for now. Heck, Vogel may have initiated Lance's early minutes, and Bird may have suggested he get benched.

    In fact, it's all speculation.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  34. #47

    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Who is hating on Lance?
    It kinda sounds like you are if you're the one that came up with the theory. Why would someone even think it up if they didn't?

    As far as the switch is concerned... I'm obviously not happy about it, but I'll continue to root on AJ like I have been. He's a good player, good teammate and he deserves to play. I just hope one day soon Lance gets the same opportunity AJ's had to prove himself with the ball in his hands.

    p.s. If the team has decided Hill's not a pg then trading Leonard for him was an awful decision IMO.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 02-29-2012 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    In that case, I'm hoping to see a lot more of Lance this season.

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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Has anybody considered the idea that maybe we gave him developmental minutes early in the season, and now we're focused on the playoff push?
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    Default Re: Lance to only get minutes during blowouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Has anybody considered the idea that maybe we gave him developmental minutes early in the season, and now we're focused on the playoff push?
    pizza guy, seven posts up.

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