View Poll Results: Well?

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  • Yeah, pull the trigger!

    59 45.38%
  • No, but only due to salary.

    10 7.69%
  • No, even if contracts were the same.

    61 46.92%
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Thread: Granger or Melo?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Goodness. I can't believe I'm defending Granger.
    Feels strange, isn't it?

  2. #52

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Goodness. I can't believe I'm defending Granger.

    My issue with Melo is that he thinks he's good enough to win every game by himself. He has the JO mentality. This doesn't usually work well in the playoffs. Combine that with the fact he shoots a lot of volume and not for a great percentage...and he's not a good defender really...I just find Melo grossly overrated. There was a time when people compared him to LeBron. That seem so ludicrous now. I would compare him more to a more talented version of Al Harrington...with a touch of Allen Iverson. None of those guys are winners. At least Danny is willing to defer in order to win. I have yet to see Melo do much of that.
    AI took a craptacular team to the finals. I wouldn't say he was a loser.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    I guess I don't understand why anyone would believe NY would be better with Granger instead of Melo. I know you guys want to cite Denver as an example, but it's a really bad one.

    Denver got better because they got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, and Timofey Mozgov. That's 3-4 starting quality players and I'd certainly welcome ANY of those guys on our team right now. I know it's a better story if we pretend it was addition by subtraction, but the reality is Denver went from a relatively shallow team to a deep one, and they have always played a very high pace -- a pace that naturally favors depth.

    In this proposed trade NY would get back a player who rebounds worse, passes worse, doesn't demand a double, doesn't have an effective post game, but shoots marginally better from the 3pt line and maybe plays better defense although honestly DG's defense isn't that great either. They don't gain any depth, they don't gain... anything.

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  6. #54

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Fascinating... I didn't expect to have a majority here.
    It doesn't surprise me at all.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Danny Granger is shooting the ball 15 times a game at a sub 40% rate. Where is this deferment you guys keep talking about? If that's deferring then WOW.

    Also the idea that Melo is a loser but Danny is a winner? Danny has managed to make the playoffs twice in his career and I really wouldn't credit him for making it in 05. Melo has never missed the playoffs and led a team to the western conference (read: better conference) finals. You guys are just making up fantasy story lines.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok, question for Dece, venezuala, and company.

    I understand why you believe this trade would make the Pacers better. Do you think it would make New York worse?
    Just call me company.

    I think Granger helps NY. Amare is an inside player and Chandler is going to be in there too. Granger is a better perimeter shooter than Carmello Anthony...and would help stretch the floor. No, I'm not a JOb lover, but I understand the need to have a few threats deep.

    Then you have to look at the defense. Again, I'm sick at my stomach defending Granger, but he's simply a lot better defender than Melo. While Melo is one physical beast, he's not interested in defending and he's going to be shooting volume for 44-45% when they could have Amare and Tyson scoring more efficiently. Amare's career FG% is over 53% and Tyson's is over 57%. Tyson is at over 70 freaking % this year...while Melo is under 40%.

    Now who do you really want shooting the ball? I know Melo is good, but he simply isn't as good as he thinks.

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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    The reason Carmello, Kobe, Durant, Dirk, etc don't pass out of single coverage when they have the ball in their spots is because this is ALREADY the place you would have wanted to get the ball during a play.
    This is true. However, explain this to me. Why does Durant and Dirk take decent to good shots in crunch time and Melo or Kobe usually take horrible shots?

    Here's a Nowitzki missed game-tying shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNg5R5E-4MQ

    Here's a Durant missed game-winning shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poq8JY23oD0

    On the contrary, he's a Kobe missed shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqcgy6xLrEM

    You see what I'm talking about? Sure, you want them to shoot. But you don't want them to take a horrible shot that has no chance in hell of going in. Guys like Durant and Nowitzki seem to acknowledge this and mostly try to take good shots (like every player, they can throw a bad shot eventually but that's not the norm). There's a reason that Kobe and Melo are known for their horrible shot selection. People are not crazy.

    That said, Danny's shot selection was not great in the past seasons either. So, a lot of you could think that both do the same mistakes so we may as well bring in the best player of the two. But Danny has improved a lot since Vogel came in. He is taking mostly good shots now. Sure, he throws some stupid shots once in a while but he's nowhere near the chucking that he did in previous seasons.

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  13. #58
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I think Granger helps NY. Amare is an inside player and Chandler is going to be in there too. Granger is a better perimeter shooter than Carmello Anthony...and would help stretch the floor. No, I'm not a JOb lover, but I understand the need to have a few threats deep.

    Then you have to look at the defense. Again, I'm sick at my stomach defending Granger, but he's simply a lot better defender than Melo. While Melo is one physical beast, he's not interested in defending and he's going to be shooting volume for 44-45% when they could have Amare and Tyson scoring more efficiently. Amare's career FG% is over 53% and Tyson's is over 57%. Tyson is at over 70 freaking % this year...while Melo is under 40%.

    Now who do you really want shooting the ball? I know Melo is good, but he simply isn't as good as he thinks.
    I agree with this 100%. NY would get a lot better by just having a good 3 point shooter instead of a shot creator. Teams with ball-dominant PGs and bigs who are great on the pick and roll do not need a shot creator. Just look at Phoenix did all these years. Pair Nash with great PnR bigs and spot up shooters. It works.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Danny Granger is shooting the ball 15 times a game at a sub 40% rate. Where is this deferment you guys keep talking about? If that's deferring then WOW.

    Also the idea that Melo is a loser but Danny is a winner? Danny has managed to make the playoffs twice in his career and I really wouldn't credit him for making it in 05. Melo has never missed the playoffs and led a team to the western conference (read: better conference) finals. You guys are just making up fantasy story lines.
    Melo is shooting over 18 times a game sub 40%...and he's shot over 20 times a game and his percentages have never been that good. Career he shoots 19.3 times a game to Danny's 14. What is that? 37% more shooting? That's amazing when you consider JOb gave Granger a blinding green light from anywhere inside half court.

    Not saying Danny is much better though...so let me beat on him a little.

    Danny's percentages have gone down every year except one small blip up. Yes, he's lower than ever right now. But even with that, he's not nearly as ball dominant...particularly down the stretch where you might as well call Melo, Force Anthony.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Goodness. I can't believe I'm defending Granger.

    My issue with Melo is that he thinks he's good enough to win every game by himself. He has the JO mentality. This doesn't usually work well in the playoffs. Combine that with the fact he shoots a lot of volume and not for a great percentage...and he's not a good defender really...I just find Melo grossly overrated. There was a time when people compared him to LeBron. That seem so ludicrous now. I would compare him more to a more talented version of Al Harrington...with a touch of Allen Iverson. None of those guys are winners. At least Danny is willing to defer in order to win. I have yet to see Melo do much of that.
    Stop it. If Danny was a winner the field house wouldn't be so empty. What exactly has Danny won? A selfish A.I took scrubs to the finals, Danny has never done that.

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  17. #61

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Just call me company.

    I think Granger helps NY. Amare is an inside player and Chandler is going to be in there too. Granger is a better perimeter shooter than Carmello Anthony...and would help stretch the floor. No, I'm not a JOb lover, but I understand the need to have a few threats deep.

    Then you have to look at the defense. Again, I'm sick at my stomach defending Granger, but he's simply a lot better defender than Melo. While Melo is one physical beast, he's not interested in defending and he's going to be shooting volume for 44-45% when they could have Amare and Tyson scoring more efficiently. Amare's career FG% is over 53% and Tyson's is over 57%. Tyson is at over 70 freaking % this year...while Melo is under 40%.

    Now who do you really want shooting the ball? I know Melo is good, but he simply isn't as good as he thinks.
    you could also say the reason there shooting that good is cuz other teams are focusing on stopping melo and letting the other players beat them.. but since chandler is shooting 70% might aswell let him shoot everytime and they would never lose. if only it was that easy... id really like to see what a new york knick forum would say to this kind of trade offer. probably laugh.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Alright, we can find some common ground here, you aren't wrong to say Melo, and Kobe for that matter, sometimes have poor shot selection. Honestly I'm sure every major star has some youtube clip of them taking a really bad shot, but probably more common for Melo and Kobe than some.

    I'm not trying to say Melo's offense is flawless, or he doesn't have room to improve. He sometimes has poor shot selection. I won't say otherwise. 90% of the time, I believe was my statement, about him being the best choice when faced with 1 on 1 coverage.

    Here's the counterpoint to that though. Do you remember the Jeff Foster buzzer beater air ball? That is what happens when you have a final possession and try to run a play against NBA defenses. If the wrong guy touches the ball, everyone runs away from him and stops any passes from being manageable. Then you get your worst shooter, admittedly he's wide open, but he's still JEFF FOSTER, 18 feet from the bucket, with 5 seconds to play.

    Yea. It's not pretty. link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnboXiq33os

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  21. #63
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    "The first thing about basketball is that it's not about basketball."

    Read that in Simmons' book. Loved it.

    Carmelo is by far the better player. Hands down. Nobody's questioning that.

    With that said, I want Granger on THIS team more than Melo. He still puts up the numbers Melo does, but also plays defense, gels with this team on and off the court, and is just an overall better character guy. Plus, he costs less and has less mileage on his legs than Melo.


    I'll take Danny.

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  23. #64
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Wow I'm suprised I'm 1 of only 3 that went with the salary reason...
    I am not stupid enough to think that Granger is actually better then Melo, but I don't believe you should pay someone over $20 mil a year unless they are at least a top 10 player, and I don't believe Melo is

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  25. #65
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Stop it. If Danny was a winner the field house wouldn't be so empty. What exactly has Danny won? A selfish A.I took scrubs to the finals, Danny has never done that.
    People are seriously underestimating that Philly team. AI actually did have the perfect pieces on that team to compete. Tremendous defenders and rebounders in Theo Ratliff, Dikembe Mutombo and Tyrone Hill. Eric Snow was also a good defender and rarely made mistakes. Iverson fit the bill for the go-to guy. So, he was surrounded by blue collar workers who allowed him to shine. That was FAR from a scrub team. They were very solid at the fundamentals and had dominant post defenders and rebounders. Aaron McKie and George Lynch were also two very tough customers. Basically, that team was really smash mouth...and very much under-appreciated.

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  27. #66

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Melo vs Granger head to head:

    http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/dYGPT

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    you could also say the reason there shooting that good is cuz other teams are focusing on stopping melo and letting the other players beat them.. but since chandler is shooting 70% might aswell let him shoot everytime and they would never lose. if only it was that easy... id really like to see what a new york knick forum would say to this kind of trade offer. probably laugh.
    Any forum would laugh at this trade.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    People are seriously underestimating that Philly team. AI actually did have the perfect pieces on that team to compete. Tremendous defenders and rebounders in Theo Ratliff, Dikembe Mutombo and Tyrone Hill. Eric Snow was also a good defender and rarely made mistakes. Iverson fit the bill for the go-to guy. So, he was surrounded by blue collar workers who allowed him to shine. That was FAR from a scrub team. They were very solid at the fundamentals and had dominant post defenders and rebounders. Aaron McKie and George Lynch were also two very tough customers. Basically, that team was really smash mouth...and very much under-appreciated.
    I was getting ready to post something very similar to this. Also don't forget that Larry Brown was the coach of that team.


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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Carmelo Anthony has been far more successful at every level of basketball, from every aspect, than Danny Granger. He has made every team he has been on, including the Knicks, better. If you looked at his actual basketball resume next to Danny Grangers, you would be amazed at the difference.

    And the trade suggested isn't even realistic. The Knicks would laugh their asses off if we asked them to do that trade. And like it or not, that is the blatantly obvious, actual reality based answer to the poll question.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 02-25-2012 at 02:08 AM.

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  33. #70
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Melo vs Granger head to head:

    http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/dYGPT
    I wonder how many games Troy Murphy was playing at PF?

    Anyway, I don't think that comparison is valid considering Denver had been a good team and the Pacers have been quite bad.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    id really like to see what a new york knick forum would say to this kind of trade offer. probably laugh.
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...d.php?t=697125

    Here's a discussion about if the Knicks would be better with Deng as opposed to Carmelo. Most people disagreed vividly. However, a lot of people on this board called Lin a shooting guard in a PG's body so their credibility can be somewhat disputed.

  35. #72

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Wow I'm suprised I'm 1 of only 3 that went with the salary reason...
    Yeah, now that i think about it, 20+ million might be too much... we allowed to change our vote?

  36. #73

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Fascinating... I didn't expect to have a majority here.

    For the record, Melo is clearly the more dynamic scorer and better individual player. Yet he never seems to help his team.
    Never seems to help his team? Melo has never missed the playoffs and took his team to the Western Conference Finals three years ago. Granger has made the playoffs once as the best player on his team.

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  38. #74
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Never seems to help his team? Melo has never missed the playoffs and took his team to the Western Conference Finals three years ago. Granger has made the playoffs once as the best player on his team.
    Billups had a lot to do with that. That was his first year with the Nuggets. Otherwise, Melo has been one and done every single year he's made the playoffs. That's not good considering all the talent that's flowed through Denver. I suppose playing in the West is part of the issue, but if Melo were all that good, he and Nene, JR Smith, Marcus Camby and Allen Iverson would have made a little more noise than first round exits. Funny that AI and JR Smith have also been part of that underachieving group.

    Edit: Count'em. 7 of 8 years were first round exits. If that doesn't tell you a little about Melo, well, I don't think I can help...

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Never seems to help his team? Melo has never missed the playoffs and took his team to the Western Conference Finals three years ago. Granger has made the playoffs once as the best player on his team.
    I'm telling you the comments people are making about melo is downright uninformed. Melo makes this team better. People saying he is a loser while Danny has won nothing in this league.

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