View Poll Results: Well?

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  • Yeah, pull the trigger!

    59 45.38%
  • No, but only due to salary.

    10 7.69%
  • No, even if contracts were the same.

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Thread: Granger or Melo?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
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    In a vacuum, Melo is a more dynamic player because of his ability to score in bunches. But in a team environment I'd rather have Danny, even if he can disappear at times. I'd prefer the guy that has shown that he can step back when his shot isn't falling over the guy who stubbornly forces the action even when he's having an off night.

    And as has been mentioned, it's no coincidence that the Nuggets and Knicks were and are better without him.
    so when does danny step back when his shot isnt falling? sorry maybe ur right but i dont see it, guy is shooting sub 40 and takes 15 shots a game. hes been pretty much ice cold all season with a few here and there games where he goes off. yes i do realize melo is shooting sub 40 also but i feel like this whole forum is way to biased. melo is the much better player, weve been complaining we dont have a shot creator yet we wouldnt even trade granger for melo straight up? idk i dont get it.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Melo is probably the best one on one player in the NBA, the Pacers offense is usually one on one offense, he could be perfect here and Danny in NY could be perfect for his ability to shoot the 3 and open the floor for Lin and Amare.
    I don't care much about NY or thinking how they might benefit from Granger.

    What I do know is, if you want to win games you have to share the ball. Melo isn't going to do that and that's why, with all his talent, he's not going to help more than Granger (who you and I know is terribly overrated).

    But sure, his 1-on-1 is off the charts good. So was Allen Iverson's. I wouldn't want him on the Pacers either because his game does not help team play. Why Detroit picked him up after all those years of obvious ball-hogging, well, IDK.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Wow, it wasn't that long ago I said Carmelo wasn't much better than Granger and I got skewered for it here.

    If Carmelo knew that the defensive side of the court was even there, I would be down.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I don't care much about NY or thinking how they might benefit from Granger.

    What I do know is, if you want to win games you have to share the ball. Melo isn't going to do that and that's why, with all his talent, he's not going to help more than Granger (who you and I know is terribly overrated).

    But sure, his 1-on-1 is off the charts good. So was Allen Iverson's. I wouldn't want him on the Pacers either because his game does not help team play. Why Detroit picked him up after all those years of obvious ball-hogging, well, IDK.
    I don't know if anybody knows this but Melo shares the ball more often than Danny, 4.1 APG for Melo to 1.8 APG for Danny.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I don't care much about NY or thinking how they might benefit from Granger.

    What I do know is, if you want to win games you have to share the ball. Melo isn't going to do that and that's why, with all his talent, he's not going to help more than Granger (who you and I know is terribly overrated).

    But sure, his 1-on-1 is off the charts good. So was Allen Iverson's. I wouldn't want him on the Pacers either because his game does not help team play. Why Detroit picked him up after all those years of obvious ball-hogging, well, IDK.
    Because they let Joe Dumb-arse have too much control.

  8. #31

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Granger's not making his teammates better either, so your not losing anything there with a Melo/Granger swap.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    so when does danny step back when his shot isnt falling? sorry maybe ur right but i dont see it, guy is shooting sub 40 and takes 15 shots a game. hes been pretty much ice cold all season with a few here and there games where he goes off. yes i do realize melo is shooting sub 40 also but i feel like this whole forum is way to biased. melo is the much better player, weve been complaining we dont have a shot creator yet we wouldnt even trade granger for melo straight up? idk i dont get it.
    Melo has taken less 19.0 FGAs per game (per 36 minutes) in his first two seasons (in which he was taking 17.6 in his 1st and 17.0 in his second). Danny took 19.0 FGAs per game only once in his career. In his All Star year. He has taken more than 17.0 one more year (the one after his All Star year). All his other seasons are below 16.5 FGAs per game.

    You are right that some people here could very well be biased. And, frankly, I'm biased as well. But I'm not biased in favor of Granger. I'm biased against Melo.

    Seriously, give me another stupidly good deal for us and I'd be willing to do it (despite hating to part with our core). One guy proposed an idea in the lines of Danny Granger for James Harden and Kendrick Perkins. I would jump on that immediately.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    What's our biggest weakness? Other than point guard, we need someone who can get their own shot, especially in crunch time. That's Melo.

    But looking at his contract, he's not worth it. It's 20, 22, and 24 mil in the next three seasons. On most nights we can make up his contributions on offense by distributing the load, and we probably lose some on the defensive end. Yes, even though some posters think Danny Granger is the worst defender in the NBA.

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  14. #34

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't know if anybody knows this but Melo shares the ball more often than Danny, 4.1 APG for Melo to 1.8 APG for Danny.
    i dont think anyone realizes that stat, i mean just go look at the game logs unless i counted wrong, danny has had 16 games where he either has 1ast or below. carmelo has had 3 games with 1ast or below. and just go look at the recent games and its been 8 games since danny has gotten more then 1ast. thats actually quite sad if you really think about it, especially when your the main guy on your team

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This. Jeremy Lin's star just started to grow dim. Too bad for him he has to play with Melo who makes everyone around him worse. He's like the anti-JKidd.

    Let's wait a bit before we say that. They lost to the Heat after beating the Hawks the night before. The Heat are easily the best team in the league right now, IMHO. They are definitely the best in the East.

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  18. #36
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    so when does danny step back when his shot isnt falling? sorry maybe ur right but i dont see it, guy is shooting sub 40 and takes 15 shots a game. hes been pretty much ice cold all season with a few here and there games where he goes off. yes i do realize melo is shooting sub 40 also but i feel like this whole forum is way to biased. melo is the much better player, weve been complaining we dont have a shot creator yet we wouldnt even trade granger for melo straight up? idk i dont get it.
    Carmelo just shoots from closer, only looking at FG% is a bit narrow. Points per shot, Danny is at 1.29, and Carmelo is 1.28. True Shooting %, Carmelo is 54.4%, and Danny is 56.3%. eFG% Carmelo is at 47.7%, while Danny is at 50.2%.

    Carmelo is a better passer, and post player but overall I'll take Danny because he at least knows there is a defensive end of the court. That doesn't even count the idea that Carmelo makes 10 million a year more.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    This is bizarre to the level that I'm not sure I can this board seriously anymore. I'm not sure some of you even watch basketball with this fake story line that Carmello is a non sharing chucker but Danny is some basketball savvy guy that stops shooting when he isn't hitting.

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  22. #38
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't know if anybody knows this but Melo shares the ball more often than Danny, 4.1 APG for Melo to 1.8 APG for Danny.
    I've said to you (specifically) a lot of times that having a high assist numbers does not necessarily mean that you share the ball. Melo is a great 1-on-1 scorer and thus draws a lot of double teams. It's quite easy for him to get assists by dumping the ball to the open man.

    Also, it's not like someone is disputing his ability to pass. It's his willingness that is disputed.

    Danny does not draw a lot of double teams because he is not a good shot creator or 1-on-1 player. Therefore, his assists number is never going to be particularly high. However, he does share the ball. He rotates the ball on offense very well. He is not going to get an assist for rotating the ball but that's what sharing the ball means.

    vnzla, you've chose to ignore tons of arguments (made by various people) in the little period of time that I post on these boards. Some people probably get tired of arguing with you over and over about the same things. Don't ever think I'm going to get tired. As long as I am on this board, I'm going to hunt you down and post argument after argument since you either post an adequate argument yourself or just agree that we disagree

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  24. #39

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    vnzla, you've chose to ignore tons of arguments (made by various people) in the little period of time that I post on these boards. Some people probably get tired of arguing with you over and over about the same things. Don't ever think I'm going to get tired. As long as I am on this board, I'm going to hunt you down and post argument after argument since you either post an adequate argument yourself or just agree that we disagree

  25. #40
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    i dont think anyone realizes that stat, i mean just go look at the game logs unless i counted wrong, danny has had 16 games where he either has 1ast or below. carmelo has had 3 games with 1ast or below. and just go look at the recent games and its been 8 games since danny has gotten more then 1ast. thats actually quite sad if you really think about it, especially when your the main guy on your team
    Once again:

    Is Danny ever double teamed? No. At least not this year. I'll freely admit that I wasn't watching the Pacers before this season.

    About Melo's assists now:

    Kobe Bryant has a career average of 4.7 APG. Is Kobe Bryant a better passer? Sure. Is he a more willing passer? Hell no. He will still get assists as most teams double him up. Every scorer will have a high APG since he usually gets a double team. This results in an open man that has a nice, high percentage shot that most often than not he hits.

    Pretty damn simple, actually. If Danny was double teamed he would get a high number of assists as well.

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  27. #41
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    This argument is nonsensical. You are essentially saying that because Carmello is so much more dangerous than Danny that he demands a double team, which leads to far more assists, this isn't actually more helpful than Danny throwing the ball around the arc... it also suggests that if Carmello weren't doubled he wouldn't pass the ball to an open teammate, which is wrong. Further, it makes the implication that Carmello, the best, or at least certainly a top 3 one on one scorer, should give the ball up when he isn't double teamed... which would be foolish, because as discussed he's most likely about to get his team a bucket against single coverage, unlike Danny. (and most players not named Kobe, Durant, etc)

    The reason that argument gets ignored is because it is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I've said to you (specifically) a lot of times that having a high assist numbers does not necessarily mean that you share the ball. Melo is a great 1-on-1 scorer and thus draws a lot of double teams. It's quite easy for him to get assists by dumping the ball to the open man.

    Also, it's not like someone is disputing his ability to pass. It's his willingness that is disputed.

    Danny does not draw a lot of double teams because he is not a good shot creator or 1-on-1 player. Therefore, his assists number is never going to be particularly high. However, he does share the ball. He rotates the ball on offense very well. He is not going to get an assist for rotating the ball but that's what sharing the ball means.

    vnzla, you've chose to ignore tons of arguments (made by various people) in the little period of time that I post on these boards. Some people probably get tired of arguing with you over and over about the same things. Don't ever think I'm going to get tired. As long as I am on this board, I'm going to hunt you down and post argument after argument since you either post an adequate argument yourself or just agree that we disagree

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  29. #42
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Fascinating... I didn't expect to have a majority here.

    For the record, Melo is clearly the more dynamic scorer and better individual player. Yet he never seems to help his team.
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  30. #43
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    If you were the Pacers GM, and the Knicks called and offered a straight up swap of Granger for C.Anthony, would you do it?
    I waited a while to see what people would say. Remember, this is a fan group that thought McRoberts was the second coming. The answer is simple. Melo is a superstar. Danny is a very good player but he cannot carry Melo's jock. If you make that trade, NY won't be able to unload Granger but the Pacers would get solid offers for Melo. Melo is by far the better athlete, the better defender (when motivated) and a scorer who can get to the rim and get his own shot any time he wants it. Make this trade and the Pacers get a lot better and NY is done....

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Let's wait a bit before we say that.
    Why? Does last year not count?
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  32. #45
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Ok, question for Dece, venezuala, and company.

    I understand why you believe this trade would make the Pacers better. Do you think it would make New York worse?
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  33. #46
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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    I say no to it. Melo seems to just get his shots and put up points on the board, but he doesn't do all that much else on the other end of the court as well as help make his teammates better. Just my opinion about the matter, though.

  34. #47

    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Danny's advanced stats can be deceiving. He gets to the line a lot because he puts his head down and charges into the paint trying to draw contact. He's figured out how to get calls without charging for the most part, but he's getting a few missed shots a game throwing up trash because he doesn't always get the call. This along with his terrible shot selection at times is dragging his fg% down. Of course the free throws helps his advanced stats, but I don't see how it really helps the team when he shoots for a low fg% and part of the reason why is because he forces things.

    And he's not passing the ball either so yeah, not impressed...

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    The whole point of sharing the ball is to get the ball into the best position to score. Against most NBA defenses you aren't going to run a play that results in an uncontested layup very often. This means you run plays or pass the ball into positions that give you the most favorable match ups.

    The reason Carmello, Kobe, Durant, Dirk, etc don't pass out of single coverage when they have the ball in their spots is because this is ALREADY the place you would have wanted to get the ball during a play. This is feeding Shaq in the post. You got the ball to the best matchup, to the place you have the best chance to score. If a double doesn't come (and even if it does in the case of Shaq sometimes), you WANT this player to shoot the ball. This is the NBA, not HS, not College, there is only a 24 second shot clock and you are playing against the best defenses in the world. I'll take Melo putting a shot up against single coverage 90% of the time as a good possession.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    This argument is nonsensical. You are essentially saying that because Carmello is so much more dangerous than Danny that he demands a double team, which leads to far more assists, this isn't actually more helpful than Danny throwing the ball around the arc... it also suggests that if Carmello weren't doubled he wouldn't pass the ball to an open teammate, which is wrong. Further, it makes the implication that Carmello, the best, or at least certainly a top 3 one on one scorer, should give the ball up when he isn't double teamed... which would be foolish, because as discussed he's most likely about to get his team a bucket against single coverage, unlike Danny. (and most players not named Kobe, Durant, etc)

    The reason that argument gets ignored is because it is silly.
    The problem is when Melo refuses to give the ball when he is double teamed. Frankly, this happens quite often. Especially, if it is the last play.

    Like in this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvlDGrv4lV8

    Or this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7EewHjWSTE

    Or this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5eo3ZQ_OZg

    Or all the other numerous times that he refuses to pass to an open man and prefers to take a tough shot instead. Yes, Carmelo is one of the best one-on-one players. Still, an OPEN shot has a much higher chance of going in than a tough, contested shot. I don't care who you are. If there's a man open you'd be better passing the ball to him. Jordan did this and was rewarded. Was Jordan a worse one-on-one player? No. He was a better teammate and was smart enough to understand that the easier play has more chances of going in.

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    Default Re: Granger or Melo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Fascinating... I didn't expect to have a majority here.

    For the record, Melo is clearly the more dynamic scorer and better individual player. Yet he never seems to help his team.
    Goodness. I can't believe I'm defending Granger.

    My issue with Melo is that he thinks he's good enough to win every game by himself. He has the JO mentality. This doesn't usually work well in the playoffs. Combine that with the fact he shoots a lot of volume and not for a great percentage...and he's not a good defender really...I just find Melo grossly overrated. There was a time when people compared him to LeBron. That seem so ludicrous now. I would compare him more to a more talented version of Al Harrington...with a touch of Allen Iverson. None of those guys are winners. At least Danny is willing to defer in order to win. I have yet to see Melo do much of that.

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