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Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

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  • Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    A win is a win.

    This one was hard to swallow though. No Okafor, no Landry this should have been no problem.

    Yes I know that they have been playing tougher than their record indicates they should and I know that they were trying to kick a losing streak. But there is just no reason at all we should have had to go to overtime to beat them. Also what made it worse was that they really led for most of the game and we came back in the 4th.

    Our slow starts are going to be the death of us or at least me.

    I’m not going to lie or pretty this up any, tonight’s game was disturbing. Not just because what I saw on the floor (not everybody played bad btw) but what I saw on the bench.

    There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didn’t last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.

    Then later in the game when Roy made the big block, Dahntay Jones gets up and wags his finger at the Hornets. That’s not that bad but not to be outdone Lance Stephenson gets up and is not content to do a finger wag he decides he has to do an entire arm and body wave. At this point in time Trevor Ariza is standing right there and tells him to sit his punk *** down. Finally Lance backs away when the referee gets there. Normally it’s no big deal but with all of the complaining we are getting from other teams about this type of behavior I think Dahntay is going to have to be more of a mentor the other way and not a leader in taunting from the bench. It was clearly obvious that Lance was taking his ques from Jones here.

    I’m not going to complain about a victory but frankly this game does not give me the confidence that our win streak is just us taking care of a few cupcake teams and if this were any other team that was decent we would have walked out of there with a loss.

    We really need George Hill back and healthy, which he is supposed to be tonight. We will see.

    Sorry I wish I was a little more up beat, I think I’m starting to come down with a cold and it is affecting my mood. Either that or seeing Solomon Jones set picks that our point guards thought were set by Rick Mahorn so they couldn’t get through them.

    Let’s just do grades tonight.

    David West: B+ Once again hit a big clutch shot down towards the end of the game. He is very efficient on the offensive end and he grabbed a few rebounds. He also threw a pass to the 5th row across the court for some reason as well, but for whatever reason he tends to throw one bad pass a game. The next time though he steps up and cuts off a guard on a drive to the basket will be his first time. If Roy isn’t in the game we have no rim protection at all.

    Danny Granger: F I don’t care if he hit a three to open up overtime or not. I kept wondering for most of the game if he had overdosed on his sleeping pills again. Lifeless, careless, poor attitude and worst of all horrid body language. I have no idea what was up with him tonight but I can tell you this was the worst game I’ve seen him play in a long time. Ariza always has been a tough matchup for him because of his speed but Danny was just not himself tonight. Also Frank until proven otherwise is all that is wise, if he tells you that you are on the wrong spot on the floor then you are on the wrong spot on defense. You DON’T argue with him. Did you see Roy having to pat Danny on the head several times tonight to kind of say “it’ll be ok”? Someone said he was sick, I don’t know if that is true or not, but he played like a sick person for sure. Also stop shooting so many damned three’s, pathetic.

    Roy Hibbert: A+ What I liked the most for Roy was that in the early stages of the game he missed a couple of little hook shots. Instead of just forcing up more he decided that he would have his own dunk contest where he just hammered home three in a row. But Roy’s rebounding and defense was key to tonight’s game. His scoring was huge as well but again he was an interior presence and they just could not get rebounds away from him. He very much reminds me of the Marvel Character Gladiator. The more confidence he has the stronger he becomes.

    Paul George: A Solid all around game. I will complain because he also took too many three point attempts but he made up for it with several drives to the lane and solid passing. This was a great overall game from him and of course his denizen of fans got to see his windmill dunk. What they may have missed though unless they were there was his statue of liberty dunk from the side in the layup lines in the pre-game. Was that a preview?

    Darren Collison: A- I don’t feel like he deserves an A- but it’s just hard to not give it to him considering his stat line tonight, he even had a good field goal %. Now had he missed that second free throw at the end of the game his grade would be vastly different. But he didn’t. He was just torched though by Jack and Vasquez on the defensive end.

    Tyler Hansbrough: D What most of you feared about Tyler’s shot prior to him playing in an NBA game came true tonight. If he wasn’t getting foul’s called, which he wasn’t, then his shot is just an ugly unorthodox hook that has very little chance of going in. He did deny position to Kaman a few times but other than that his time on the floor was spent asking why he wasn’t getting the calls and looking totally perplexed.

    A.J. Price: B+ Did a little better job on Jack than Daren did but this wasn’t his best defensive outing either. He did hit his shots tonight, which is a bonus, but I think he kind of stepped back a little from running the offense like h had been doing and reverted to looking for his own shot a little. Also he denied Dahntay Jones his rightful technical free throw attempt, but I guess nobody really cares about that. It will be interesting to see what happens when George does return.

    Lance Stephenson: C He didn’t do anything stupid (on the court) and he did have a really nice pull up jumper. C might be a little low but he didn’t play much really and didn’t impact the game all of that much.

    Dahntay Jones: C- Not his finest game, which is a shame because last night I had a pretty decent write up on him for the very good game he had vs. the Bobcats. He still played hard on defense and he only took one shot which was a wide open three in the corner that he missed.

    Jeff Foster: C I know its sacred that we all must praise Jeff Foster and I will give him credit for playing very good defense & boxing out for rebound off of free throws. But other than that, he didn’t even attempt a shot and the two free throws he took he missed.


    And now for absolutely no reason Dubcat.




    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    First! Thanks for the write up as always peck. Big win for the boys in blue tonight.. Bigger game from the big fella himself. Ecstatic with ugly W.
    Last edited by Pacers4Life; 02-22-2012, 04:29 AM.
    Reggie Miller is a God. Period.

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    It's ALWAYS Miller Time.
    #31 & Only

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    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

      I know he's everyone's favorite son but PG was pretty bad on both offense and defense the first 3 quarters, but with that said, he did play spectacular in the 4th and overtime. Just sayin...
      Did you know Antonio and Dale aren’t actually brothers?

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      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

        George wasnt good all game, he needed 20 shots for 20 points, his D wasnt amazing. If you hate collison which had 8-11 8reb 6ast game tonight, atleast stop worshipping George which is at best average nba player.

        Take off your pink glasses people.

        p.s i personally really like George from day 1, but i would rather leave him alone and watch him improve and treat everyone in team fairly.

        And 90% of people here questoned Price's ability to be a basketball player even, now he is really solid ( just talking all around, not this thread ).

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        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

          I know exactly why Vogel yelled at Danny. He was jogging the length of the court behind a Hornets player(his man I think) who took it all the way in for a layup. I looked at the screen in disbelief and said.....you got to be kidding me Danny. Danny is one head scratcher of a player sometimes.

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          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

            A bit harsh on Danny he seemed like he was legit sick tonight and he did finish up strong with 9 points in the 4th and OT.

            I think DC should be higher he played great from hitting the last shot of the first half on. He went 7-of-9 from the field scoring 16 points with 5 assists and 7 rebounds from that shot to end the half on. Also 11 of Jacks 19 was when AJ was in for DC. The Vasquez/Jack combo had 7 points when DC was in during the second half and OT. Vasquez hit a 3 to kick off NOLA's second half, a FT with 01:41 left in the game and 3 with them down 10 with 1:07 left in OT.
            Last edited by Asher99; 02-22-2012, 05:20 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

              Originally posted by Peck View Post
              A win is a win.

              This one was hard to swallow though. No Okafor, no Landry this should have been no problem.

              Yes I know that they have been playing tougher than their record indicates they should and I know that they were trying to kick a losing streak. But there is just no reason at all we should have had to go to overtime to beat them. Also what made it worse was that they really led for most of the game and we came back in the 4th.

              Our slow starts are going to be the death of us or at least me.

              I’m not going to lie or pretty this up any, tonight’s game was disturbing. Not just because what I saw on the floor (not everybody played bad btw) but what I saw on the bench.

              There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didn’t last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.

              Then later in the game when Roy made the big block, Dahntay Jones gets up and wags his finger at the Hornets. That’s not that bad but not to be outdone Lance Stephenson gets up and is not content to do a finger wag he decides he has to do an entire arm and body wave. At this point in time Trevor Ariza is standing right there and tells him to sit his punk *** down. Finally Lance backs away when the referee gets there. Normally it’s no big deal but with all of the complaining we are getting from other teams about this type of behavior I think Dahntay is going to have to be more of a mentor the other way and not a leader in taunting from the bench. It was clearly obvious that Lance was taking his ques from Jones here.

              I’m not going to complain about a victory but frankly this game does not give me the confidence that our win streak is just us taking care of a few cupcake teams and if this were any other team that was decent we would have walked out of there with a loss.

              We really need George Hill back and healthy, which he is supposed to be tonight. We will see.

              Sorry I wish I was a little more up beat, I think I’m starting to come down with a cold and it is affecting my mood. Either that or seeing Solomon Jones set picks that our point guards thought were set by Rick Mahorn so they couldn’t get through them.

              Let’s just do grades tonight.

              David West: B+ Once again hit a big clutch shot down towards the end of the game. He is very efficient on the offensive end and he grabbed a few rebounds. He also threw a pass to the 5th row across the court for some reason as well, but for whatever reason he tends to throw one bad pass a game. The next time though he steps up and cuts off a guard on a drive to the basket will be his first time. If Roy isn’t in the game we have no rim protection at all.

              Danny Granger: F I don’t care if he hit a three to open up overtime or not. I kept wondering for most of the game if he had overdosed on his sleeping pills again. Lifeless, careless, poor attitude and worst of all horrid body language. I have no idea what was up with him tonight but I can tell you this was the worst game I’ve seen him play in a long time. Ariza always has been a tough matchup for him because of his speed but Danny was just not himself tonight. Also Frank until proven otherwise is all that is wise, if he tells you that you are on the wrong spot on the floor then you are on the wrong spot on defense. You DON’T argue with him. Did you see Roy having to pat Danny on the head several times tonight to kind of say “it’ll be ok”? Someone said he was sick, I don’t know if that is true or not, but he played like a sick person for sure. Also stop shooting so many damned three’s, pathetic.

              Roy Hibbert: A+ What I liked the most for Roy was that in the early stages of the game he missed a couple of little hook shots. Instead of just forcing up more he decided that he would have his own dunk contest where he just hammered home three in a row. But Roy’s rebounding and defense was key to tonight’s game. His scoring was huge as well but again he was an interior presence and they just could not get rebounds away from him. He very much reminds me of the Marvel Character Gladiator. The more confidence he has the stronger he becomes.

              Paul George: A Solid all around game. I will complain because he also took too many three point attempts but he made up for it with several drives to the lane and solid passing. This was a great overall game from him and of course his denizen of fans got to see his windmill dunk. What they may have missed though unless they were there was his statue of liberty dunk from the side in the layup lines in the pre-game. Was that a preview?

              Darren Collison: A- I don’t feel like he deserves an A- but it’s just hard to not give it to him considering his stat line tonight, he even had a good field goal %. Now had he missed that second free throw at the end of the game his grade would be vastly different. But he didn’t. He was just torched though by Jack and Vasquez on the defensive end.

              Tyler Hansbrough: D What most of you feared about Tyler’s shot prior to him playing in an NBA game came true tonight. If he wasn’t getting foul’s called, which he wasn’t, then his shot is just an ugly unorthodox hook that has very little chance of going in. He did deny position to Kaman a few times but other than that his time on the floor was spent asking why he wasn’t getting the calls and looking totally perplexed.

              A.J. Price: B+ Did a little better job on Jack than Daren did but this wasn’t his best defensive outing either. He did hit his shots tonight, which is a bonus, but I think he kind of stepped back a little from running the offense like h had been doing and reverted to looking for his own shot a little. Also he denied Dahntay Jones his rightful technical free throw attempt, but I guess nobody really cares about that. It will be interesting to see what happens when George does return.

              Lance Stephenson: C He didn’t do anything stupid (on the court) and he did have a really nice pull up jumper. C might be a little low but he didn’t play much really and didn’t impact the game all of that much.

              Dahntay Jones: C- Not his finest game, which is a shame because last night I had a pretty decent write up on him for the very good game he had vs. the Bobcats. He still played hard on defense and he only took one shot which was a wide open three in the corner that he missed.

              Jeff Foster: C I know its sacred that we all must praise Jeff Foster and I will give him credit for playing very good defense & boxing out for rebound off of free throws. But other than that, he didn’t even attempt a shot and the two free throws he took he missed.


              And now for absolutely no reason Dubcat.


              This part is disturbing. I always get this sense that Collison and Granger have some animosity towards each other. Also, wasn't every saying that Granger was out with sickness or something at some point in the game? (I missed the beginning)
              "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                I didn't even realize we played New Orleans on Fat Tuesday until it hitting me looking up at the title even after reading it to click on the thread. Seems like they would want to play at home during Mardi Gras with more people in the area but maybe they don't think people would go or if they did would be wasted.

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                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                  I feel like this team has gotten a bit too cocky. The Danny and Lance things are just examples. At the start of the season, they were all working hard, playing tough defense and winning games. But that losing stream, it seemed like lazy play, like they expected to win by going through the motions because they realize they are a good team. What was making them so good is the effort they were putting in.

                  I did not see tonights game, this is just what I've noticed since the losing streak.

                  From watching the highlights, I will say this, DC looked to be setting up the offense quite well and was finding the open man. His stat line is rather impressive as well. Defensively, seems like he struggled, but it looks that way for the rest of the team as well.

                  Great to see a monster game from Roy. Two games in a row, he has been scarily efficient. In the past two, he has scored 48 points in 25 shots. That is bonkers. Glad to see him getting it going after a little slump.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                    I checked back the "confrontation" as far as possible (LP had NO feed) but DG was already arguing with DC before the timeout, about DC missing defensive assignments, at least that is what i assume, because he was pointing around while arguing with DC, I think Vogel told him he is the coach or something, didn't see a major happening though.
                    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                      Agree with the assessment of Danny Granger. Horrible game. Several times this season he has seemed to think he can just coast until winning time when that clearly isn't the case.

                      I just hope he doesn't react negatively to Paul George getting an opportunity for the game-winner. If I were Frank, I wouldn't have given PG that shot, but there's definitely no reason Danny should pout.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                        I can't believe that words was spent by players and coaches during a game. How unprofessional is that. There is a time and place for this nonsense.
                        /green
                        Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                          It seems I am more enthused about this win than most of you. For most of the game, the Hornets were just making everything they threw at the rim despite what was a mostly collectively good defensive effort from the Pacers (except for the first half of the first quarter, which was pathetic). In the NBA, everyone from Washington to Miami will have those kinds of nights where they can't miss a couple times a season, and usually that results in a double digit win for said team. Well, not tonight. The Pacers kept fighting and kept it close until New Orleans finally broke down and became, well, New Orleans again once overtime came and they turned back into the pumpkin they are. I for one was very impressed that we were able to hang tough even though it must have been discouraging that New Orleans was making every shot.

                          I was super impressed with Roy's performance in the first half. I would love to see a couple of dominant dunks like that from him every game, it is great to watch. Now, Roy will never be Shaq, but the way he just reached over the other team's players or got in the right position and dunked it in HARD was very Shaq-like.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                            DC had a fantastic defensive second half. The 7:56 mark was a shot clock violation. But DC actually forced two uncalled turnovers that possession. A carry and travel by Jack.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didn’t last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.
                              In the fourth Danny fell down and was slow to get up and his man hit a three to tie the game. DC yelled at Danny "Come on!" and flexed. We called a timeout and DG was the only player sitting outside of the huddle. When Amdunson, Pendergraph(?) and PG came back to bench, nobody slapped DG's hand in the air for high five.

                              Granger then cheered with PG until they both went back in the game, so I could be reading into this, although I don't think it's a big deal.

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