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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

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    Default Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    A win is a win.

    This one was hard to swallow though. No Okafor, no Landry this should have been no problem.

    Yes I know that they have been playing tougher than their record indicates they should and I know that they were trying to kick a losing streak. But there is just no reason at all we should have had to go to overtime to beat them. Also what made it worse was that they really led for most of the game and we came back in the 4th.

    Our slow starts are going to be the death of us or at least me.

    I’m not going to lie or pretty this up any, tonight’s game was disturbing. Not just because what I saw on the floor (not everybody played bad btw) but what I saw on the bench.

    There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didn’t last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.

    Then later in the game when Roy made the big block, Dahntay Jones gets up and wags his finger at the Hornets. That’s not that bad but not to be outdone Lance Stephenson gets up and is not content to do a finger wag he decides he has to do an entire arm and body wave. At this point in time Trevor Ariza is standing right there and tells him to sit his punk *** down. Finally Lance backs away when the referee gets there. Normally it’s no big deal but with all of the complaining we are getting from other teams about this type of behavior I think Dahntay is going to have to be more of a mentor the other way and not a leader in taunting from the bench. It was clearly obvious that Lance was taking his ques from Jones here.

    I’m not going to complain about a victory but frankly this game does not give me the confidence that our win streak is just us taking care of a few cupcake teams and if this were any other team that was decent we would have walked out of there with a loss.

    We really need George Hill back and healthy, which he is supposed to be tonight. We will see.

    Sorry I wish I was a little more up beat, I think I’m starting to come down with a cold and it is affecting my mood. Either that or seeing Solomon Jones set picks that our point guards thought were set by Rick Mahorn so they couldn’t get through them.

    Let’s just do grades tonight.

    David West: B+ Once again hit a big clutch shot down towards the end of the game. He is very efficient on the offensive end and he grabbed a few rebounds. He also threw a pass to the 5th row across the court for some reason as well, but for whatever reason he tends to throw one bad pass a game. The next time though he steps up and cuts off a guard on a drive to the basket will be his first time. If Roy isn’t in the game we have no rim protection at all.

    Danny Granger: F I don’t care if he hit a three to open up overtime or not. I kept wondering for most of the game if he had overdosed on his sleeping pills again. Lifeless, careless, poor attitude and worst of all horrid body language. I have no idea what was up with him tonight but I can tell you this was the worst game I’ve seen him play in a long time. Ariza always has been a tough matchup for him because of his speed but Danny was just not himself tonight. Also Frank until proven otherwise is all that is wise, if he tells you that you are on the wrong spot on the floor then you are on the wrong spot on defense. You DON’T argue with him. Did you see Roy having to pat Danny on the head several times tonight to kind of say “it’ll be ok”? Someone said he was sick, I don’t know if that is true or not, but he played like a sick person for sure. Also stop shooting so many damned three’s, pathetic.

    Roy Hibbert: A+ What I liked the most for Roy was that in the early stages of the game he missed a couple of little hook shots. Instead of just forcing up more he decided that he would have his own dunk contest where he just hammered home three in a row. But Roy’s rebounding and defense was key to tonight’s game. His scoring was huge as well but again he was an interior presence and they just could not get rebounds away from him. He very much reminds me of the Marvel Character Gladiator. The more confidence he has the stronger he becomes.

    Paul George: A Solid all around game. I will complain because he also took too many three point attempts but he made up for it with several drives to the lane and solid passing. This was a great overall game from him and of course his denizen of fans got to see his windmill dunk. What they may have missed though unless they were there was his statue of liberty dunk from the side in the layup lines in the pre-game. Was that a preview?

    Darren Collison: A- I don’t feel like he deserves an A- but it’s just hard to not give it to him considering his stat line tonight, he even had a good field goal %. Now had he missed that second free throw at the end of the game his grade would be vastly different. But he didn’t. He was just torched though by Jack and Vasquez on the defensive end.

    Tyler Hansbrough: D What most of you feared about Tyler’s shot prior to him playing in an NBA game came true tonight. If he wasn’t getting foul’s called, which he wasn’t, then his shot is just an ugly unorthodox hook that has very little chance of going in. He did deny position to Kaman a few times but other than that his time on the floor was spent asking why he wasn’t getting the calls and looking totally perplexed.

    A.J. Price: B+ Did a little better job on Jack than Daren did but this wasn’t his best defensive outing either. He did hit his shots tonight, which is a bonus, but I think he kind of stepped back a little from running the offense like h had been doing and reverted to looking for his own shot a little. Also he denied Dahntay Jones his rightful technical free throw attempt, but I guess nobody really cares about that. It will be interesting to see what happens when George does return.

    Lance Stephenson: C He didn’t do anything stupid (on the court) and he did have a really nice pull up jumper. C might be a little low but he didn’t play much really and didn’t impact the game all of that much.

    Dahntay Jones: C- Not his finest game, which is a shame because last night I had a pretty decent write up on him for the very good game he had vs. the Bobcats. He still played hard on defense and he only took one shot which was a wide open three in the corner that he missed.

    Jeff Foster: C I know its sacred that we all must praise Jeff Foster and I will give him credit for playing very good defense & boxing out for rebound off of free throws. But other than that, he didn’t even attempt a shot and the two free throws he took he missed.


    And now for absolutely no reason Dubcat.




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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    First! Thanks for the write up as always peck. Big win for the boys in blue tonight.. Bigger game from the big fella himself. Ecstatic with ugly W.
    Last edited by Pacers4Life; 02-22-2012 at 03:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I know he's everyone's favorite son but PG was pretty bad on both offense and defense the first 3 quarters, but with that said, he did play spectacular in the 4th and overtime. Just sayin...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    George wasnt good all game, he needed 20 shots for 20 points, his D wasnt amazing. If you hate collison which had 8-11 8reb 6ast game tonight, atleast stop worshipping George which is at best average nba player.

    Take off your pink glasses people.

    p.s i personally really like George from day 1, but i would rather leave him alone and watch him improve and treat everyone in team fairly.

    And 90% of people here questoned Price's ability to be a basketball player even, now he is really solid ( just talking all around, not this thread ).

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I know exactly why Vogel yelled at Danny. He was jogging the length of the court behind a Hornets player(his man I think) who took it all the way in for a layup. I looked at the screen in disbelief and said.....you got to be kidding me Danny. Danny is one head scratcher of a player sometimes.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    A bit harsh on Danny he seemed like he was legit sick tonight and he did finish up strong with 9 points in the 4th and OT.

    I think DC should be higher he played great from hitting the last shot of the first half on. He went 7-of-9 from the field scoring 16 points with 5 assists and 7 rebounds from that shot to end the half on. Also 11 of Jacks 19 was when AJ was in for DC. The Vasquez/Jack combo had 7 points when DC was in during the second half and OT. Vasquez hit a 3 to kick off NOLA's second half, a FT with 01:41 left in the game and 3 with them down 10 with 1:07 left in OT.
    Last edited by Asher99; 02-22-2012 at 04:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    A win is a win.

    This one was hard to swallow though. No Okafor, no Landry this should have been no problem.

    Yes I know that they have been playing tougher than their record indicates they should and I know that they were trying to kick a losing streak. But there is just no reason at all we should have had to go to overtime to beat them. Also what made it worse was that they really led for most of the game and we came back in the 4th.

    Our slow starts are going to be the death of us or at least me.

    Iím not going to lie or pretty this up any, tonightís game was disturbing. Not just because what I saw on the floor (not everybody played bad btw) but what I saw on the bench.

    There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didnít last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.

    Then later in the game when Roy made the big block, Dahntay Jones gets up and wags his finger at the Hornets. Thatís not that bad but not to be outdone Lance Stephenson gets up and is not content to do a finger wag he decides he has to do an entire arm and body wave. At this point in time Trevor Ariza is standing right there and tells him to sit his punk *** down. Finally Lance backs away when the referee gets there. Normally itís no big deal but with all of the complaining we are getting from other teams about this type of behavior I think Dahntay is going to have to be more of a mentor the other way and not a leader in taunting from the bench. It was clearly obvious that Lance was taking his ques from Jones here.

    Iím not going to complain about a victory but frankly this game does not give me the confidence that our win streak is just us taking care of a few cupcake teams and if this were any other team that was decent we would have walked out of there with a loss.

    We really need George Hill back and healthy, which he is supposed to be tonight. We will see.

    Sorry I wish I was a little more up beat, I think Iím starting to come down with a cold and it is affecting my mood. Either that or seeing Solomon Jones set picks that our point guards thought were set by Rick Mahorn so they couldnít get through them.

    Letís just do grades tonight.

    David West: B+ Once again hit a big clutch shot down towards the end of the game. He is very efficient on the offensive end and he grabbed a few rebounds. He also threw a pass to the 5th row across the court for some reason as well, but for whatever reason he tends to throw one bad pass a game. The next time though he steps up and cuts off a guard on a drive to the basket will be his first time. If Roy isnít in the game we have no rim protection at all.

    Danny Granger: F I donít care if he hit a three to open up overtime or not. I kept wondering for most of the game if he had overdosed on his sleeping pills again. Lifeless, careless, poor attitude and worst of all horrid body language. I have no idea what was up with him tonight but I can tell you this was the worst game Iíve seen him play in a long time. Ariza always has been a tough matchup for him because of his speed but Danny was just not himself tonight. Also Frank until proven otherwise is all that is wise, if he tells you that you are on the wrong spot on the floor then you are on the wrong spot on defense. You DONíT argue with him. Did you see Roy having to pat Danny on the head several times tonight to kind of say ďitíll be okĒ? Someone said he was sick, I donít know if that is true or not, but he played like a sick person for sure. Also stop shooting so many damned threeís, pathetic.

    Roy Hibbert: A+ What I liked the most for Roy was that in the early stages of the game he missed a couple of little hook shots. Instead of just forcing up more he decided that he would have his own dunk contest where he just hammered home three in a row. But Royís rebounding and defense was key to tonightís game. His scoring was huge as well but again he was an interior presence and they just could not get rebounds away from him. He very much reminds me of the Marvel Character Gladiator. The more confidence he has the stronger he becomes.

    Paul George: A Solid all around game. I will complain because he also took too many three point attempts but he made up for it with several drives to the lane and solid passing. This was a great overall game from him and of course his denizen of fans got to see his windmill dunk. What they may have missed though unless they were there was his statue of liberty dunk from the side in the layup lines in the pre-game. Was that a preview?

    Darren Collison: A- I donít feel like he deserves an A- but itís just hard to not give it to him considering his stat line tonight, he even had a good field goal %. Now had he missed that second free throw at the end of the game his grade would be vastly different. But he didnít. He was just torched though by Jack and Vasquez on the defensive end.

    Tyler Hansbrough: D What most of you feared about Tylerís shot prior to him playing in an NBA game came true tonight. If he wasnít getting foulís called, which he wasnít, then his shot is just an ugly unorthodox hook that has very little chance of going in. He did deny position to Kaman a few times but other than that his time on the floor was spent asking why he wasnít getting the calls and looking totally perplexed.

    A.J. Price: B+ Did a little better job on Jack than Daren did but this wasnít his best defensive outing either. He did hit his shots tonight, which is a bonus, but I think he kind of stepped back a little from running the offense like h had been doing and reverted to looking for his own shot a little. Also he denied Dahntay Jones his rightful technical free throw attempt, but I guess nobody really cares about that. It will be interesting to see what happens when George does return.

    Lance Stephenson: C He didnít do anything stupid (on the court) and he did have a really nice pull up jumper. C might be a little low but he didnít play much really and didnít impact the game all of that much.

    Dahntay Jones: C- Not his finest game, which is a shame because last night I had a pretty decent write up on him for the very good game he had vs. the Bobcats. He still played hard on defense and he only took one shot which was a wide open three in the corner that he missed.

    Jeff Foster: C I know its sacred that we all must praise Jeff Foster and I will give him credit for playing very good defense & boxing out for rebound off of free throws. But other than that, he didnít even attempt a shot and the two free throws he took he missed.


    And now for absolutely no reason Dubcat.


    This part is disturbing. I always get this sense that Collison and Granger have some animosity towards each other. Also, wasn't every saying that Granger was out with sickness or something at some point in the game? (I missed the beginning)
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I didn't even realize we played New Orleans on Fat Tuesday until it hitting me looking up at the title even after reading it to click on the thread. Seems like they would want to play at home during Mardi Gras with more people in the area but maybe they don't think people would go or if they did would be wasted.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I feel like this team has gotten a bit too cocky. The Danny and Lance things are just examples. At the start of the season, they were all working hard, playing tough defense and winning games. But that losing stream, it seemed like lazy play, like they expected to win by going through the motions because they realize they are a good team. What was making them so good is the effort they were putting in.

    I did not see tonights game, this is just what I've noticed since the losing streak.

    From watching the highlights, I will say this, DC looked to be setting up the offense quite well and was finding the open man. His stat line is rather impressive as well. Defensively, seems like he struggled, but it looks that way for the rest of the team as well.

    Great to see a monster game from Roy. Two games in a row, he has been scarily efficient. In the past two, he has scored 48 points in 25 shots. That is bonkers. Glad to see him getting it going after a little slump.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I checked back the "confrontation" as far as possible (LP had NO feed) but DG was already arguing with DC before the timeout, about DC missing defensive assignments, at least that is what i assume, because he was pointing around while arguing with DC, I think Vogel told him he is the coach or something, didn't see a major happening though.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Agree with the assessment of Danny Granger. Horrible game. Several times this season he has seemed to think he can just coast until winning time when that clearly isn't the case.

    I just hope he doesn't react negatively to Paul George getting an opportunity for the game-winner. If I were Frank, I wouldn't have given PG that shot, but there's definitely no reason Danny should pout.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I can't believe that words was spent by players and coaches during a game. How unprofessional is that. There is a time and place for this nonsense.
    /green

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    It seems I am more enthused about this win than most of you. For most of the game, the Hornets were just making everything they threw at the rim despite what was a mostly collectively good defensive effort from the Pacers (except for the first half of the first quarter, which was pathetic). In the NBA, everyone from Washington to Miami will have those kinds of nights where they can't miss a couple times a season, and usually that results in a double digit win for said team. Well, not tonight. The Pacers kept fighting and kept it close until New Orleans finally broke down and became, well, New Orleans again once overtime came and they turned back into the pumpkin they are. I for one was very impressed that we were able to hang tough even though it must have been discouraging that New Orleans was making every shot.

    I was super impressed with Roy's performance in the first half. I would love to see a couple of dominant dunks like that from him every game, it is great to watch. Now, Roy will never be Shaq, but the way he just reached over the other team's players or got in the right position and dunked it in HARD was very Shaq-like.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    DC had a fantastic defensive second half. The 7:56 mark was a shot clock violation. But DC actually forced two uncalled turnovers that possession. A carry and travel by Jack.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    There was a confrontation between Danny Granger & Frank Vogel on the 20 second time out in the first quarter (you know the time he had to use a second time out to wake us up). Frank, you could see, was mad when he called the time out and he yelled at Danny as soon as he walked up to the bench. Danny yelled right back at him to which Darren Collison yelled at Danny. This didnít last for very long, a few seconds at best, but needless to say it was not fun to watch. You could see Roy being physically uncomfortable at that point.
    In the fourth Danny fell down and was slow to get up and his man hit a three to tie the game. DC yelled at Danny "Come on!" and flexed. We called a timeout and DG was the only player sitting outside of the huddle. When Amdunson, Pendergraph(?) and PG came back to bench, nobody slapped DG's hand in the air for high five.

    Granger then cheered with PG until they both went back in the game, so I could be reading into this, although I don't think it's a big deal.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I think Frank's comments after the game might shed a little light on the timeout confrontation

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...-option-Pacers
    "I've really talked emphatically what we need to do on the defensive end, and when our assignments are clear and they're getting broken, I want to do something about it," Vogel. "If it means calling a timeout or taking a guy out of the game, whatever I have to do."

    From what I saw during that time Danny had missed at least two assignments in defending Hornbets pick and rolls and that was why Frank called both time outs and evidently in the second timeout Danny and Frank got a little heated. I'm not one to get too worried about a heat of the moment type thing like that. As long as play and coach are on the same page, I don't think it is a big deal. It is worth watching and seeing if it continues though.

    I will say the player coach relationship between the team's best player and the coach is critically important, so if there is any slippage overall in the Danny - Frank relationship it will tear the team apart.

    As far as the game, I just thought our offense lacked ball movment - way too much one-on-one from Danny, George, Darren. Our low assist totals for a game in which we scored 117 was really low. 18 assists on 44 made FG is not a good %.

    Is 10,500 the lowest attendance ever at the fieldhouse. (that is tickets sold or distributed) who knows how many were there
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-22-2012 at 09:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Question, guys, as I don't have replay, only saw it once and didn't think much of it until after the game: on the final play of regulation, where PG24 missed the shot to win it, did the Pacers draw up the play for George and not try to get it to Granger, or did the Hornets just deny Granger?

    I only ask because the final shot should always be in the hands of Granger unless it's impossible to get him the ball. Say what you want about the man's other faults; he's undeniably clutch.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Wow, Peck being Debbie Downer this morning. Personally, I was fairly impressed with last night's win. NO just kept hitting shots. After awhile they start hitting shots inspite of the defense, which was good. Jack hitting that leaner as the shot clock expired would be one example, and Bellanelli hitting a 3 from 40ft would be another. At some point you just gotta tip your hat and say good shot.

    I thought the Pacers showed real determination and focus. Instead of hanging their collective heads, they just went right back to work.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Question, guys, as I don't have replay, only saw it once and didn't think much of it until after the game: on the final play of regulation, where PG24 missed the shot to win it, did the Pacers draw up the play for George and not try to get it to Granger, or did the Hornets just deny Granger?

    I only ask because the final shot should always be in the hands of Granger unless it's impossible to get him the ball. Say what you want about the man's other faults; he's undeniably clutch.

    I only saw it live, but I thought they drew it up for PG. I could be wrong. I'll say this, too. If that shot would have fallen, PG's confidence would have gone through the roof.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    The final shot in regulation was drawn up for George. He got a good look, just missed it. I wanted either Danny or West to get that shot. Danny was hot oin the 4th quarter and West had just hit a nice shot a few minutes earlier. Didn't think there was enough time to get the ball into Roy

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Is 10,500 the lowest attendance ever at the fieldhouse. (that is tickets sold or distributed) who knows how many were there
    I don't think that's a record, but it was probably the most apathetic crowd I've ever been a part of.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    I felt like the biggest problem with our defense is when we try for the turnover rather than defending the basket. Too many times we leave a guy an open lane to the basket because we've dived past trying to smack the ball away - and how many of those guys standing wide open at the arc are left there because we can't recover from trying to double a ballhandler and force the turnover?

    They come by this honest, to be sure, since there is a HUGE emphasis on disrupting the ball in our defensive scheme. However, there's a place for some moderation, especially when guys are good enough ballhandlers that they just shift the dribble and watch you sail merrily by.

    That's not to say those are our ONLY defensive issues - the inability to get through screens is a pretty serious one. In the 4th I was just about to remark to UB that Collison was actually doing a pretty decent job with the screens for a change, then he went so wide around one that I think he was heading to Starbucks for a latte before coming back on his man.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Is 10,500 the lowest attendance ever at the fieldhouse. (that is tickets sold or distributed) who knows how many were there
    Don't know about previous years, but last year there were three games that didn't officially crack 10k. And the Atlanta game earlier this year was 10,334.....
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I thought the Pacers showed real determination and focus. Instead of hanging their collective heads, they just went right back to work.
    For most of the game I thought they were taking their All-Star break early. I was happier when they came out hard in OT. If it hadn't been for that, we'd probably have a loss to be griping about. With it, though, I have hope that the alarm clock went off.

    We'll see how they come out tonight. This one is tailor made for them to take for granted and completely mess up - worst team in the league playing at home and hot for a payback, second night of a back-to-back, last game before the break...
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Fat Tuesday game

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I felt like the biggest problem with our defense is when we try for the turnover rather than defending the basket. Too many times we leave a guy an open lane to the basket because we've dived past trying to smack the ball away - and how many of those guys standing wide open at the arc are left there because we can't recover from trying to double a ballhandler and force the turnover?

    They come by this honest, to be sure, since there is a HUGE emphasis on disrupting the ball in our defensive scheme. However, there's a place for some moderation, especially when guys are good enough ballhandlers that they just shift the dribble and watch you sail merrily by.

    That's not to say those are our ONLY defensive issues - the inability to get through screens is a pretty serious one. In the 4th I was just about to remark to UB that Collison was actually doing a pretty decent job with the screens for a change, then he went so wide around one that I think he was heading to Starbucks for a latte before coming back on his man.
    Here is what worries me. Roy pops out on the guard and makes contact with his butt/hip almost every time. Jarrett Jack isn't going to necessarily get that call, but D. Rose will. I don't want our 7'2" center getting into foul trouble 25 feet from the basket come playoff time. Just a concern of mine.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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