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Thread: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Yep I predicted since the trade happened that Hill was going to take the starting PG spot from DC, I still think is going to happen and I would love if that happens but at the end of the day or year, we are going to still need an starting PG.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I think we're just going to have to ride this roster into the playoffs and then go after upgrades (Steve Nash, please) in the off-season.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Everyone talks about Hill's lack of PG skills, well it's not like DC has them either, so it's a push in the court vision category. But Hill is a better scorer, much defender, and has enough size that we can pretty much rotate he and PG within defensive match ups.

    I feel this would be a great move for both players. Hill's ability to get his own shot late in the shot clock would fill a void with the starters.

    Also Hill is much more comfortable in a grind-it-out style of offense that the other 4 starters (except maybe PG) are more suited for. Meanwhile, Collison's up-tempo, get-it-and-go style of play would fit in MUCH BETTER with the second unit (DC, Stephenson and Jones all love to play at a faster pace).

    It most likely WILL NOT happen. But if we aren't going to make any trades, then I honestly think we would be able to avoid our slow/sluggish starts with a move like this.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    As long as Vogel keeps telling the guys what their role is and sticks to that, Im fine with what he does. I really like George Hill, but I think that takes away from the second unit. Before George's injury, Vogel stuck with him late in games over DC when GH3 was more effective. I just would hope that if Frank does make a change, he stays with it and doesnt dance around the roster where no one knew their role (ala a former coach who will remain nameless).

  7. #30
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I'm rooting for Hill to start over DC. IMO he's not any worse at being a point guard than DC already is, they can both shoot and score pretty well, but:

    1) George is 6'2" and also bigger/stronger with longer arms, DC is barely 6'0" and of small stature in general
    2) George plays great defense most of the time, DC struggles to play average defense most of the time.

    I'm all for this. If for some reason it doesn't work, worry about that then, but it seems like a good idea to try this.

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  9. #31

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Hill isn't a point guard. Before he was injured, we were all discussing whether AJ needed to be a part of the bench unit because Hill wasn't a point guard. I know people don't think DC's a point guard, but he clearly ran an offense significantly better, IMO. And it's not like our offense was good to start out with.

    Regardless, it would be a mistake to take either of them out of the starting lineup. If you need to give Hill more minutes, because either one is playing poorly, that's fine. But don't screw up chemistry.
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-20-2012 at 01:59 PM.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I am just not aware of anything DC does with those four starters that Hill can't do. And defensively it's not debatable as to the upgrade.

    Most of our best passing comes from West and Roy anyway. When DC does have the ball, it's usually giving the ball up on the side, running a pick and roll, or feeding the post. Hill can do those things just fine.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I feel this would be a great move for both players.
    It will not be a great move for Hill.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I think that's exactly what our team needs....... Hill would be great with the starters and Collison would be a very nice addition to the bench, also keeping the ball out of DJones hands so much.
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I have no gripes with Hill starting over DC as I feel he is the better all around player but instead of doing that I'd like to see the position upgraded all together. Hill was most effective in SA when he was on the floor w/Parker, playing scrappy d and spotting up for the corner 3.

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  17. #36

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    DC is definitely the better passer and I think we will see that as soon as Hill's in the starting lineup. Darren isn't getting his teammate easy baskets though so I think it's a wash. We'll see though. Hill is not a good passer at all.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am just not aware of anything DC does with those four starters that Hill can't do. And defensively it's not debatable as to the upgrade.

    Most of our best passing comes from West and Roy anyway. When DC does have the ball, it's usually giving the ball up on the side, running a pick and roll, or feeding the post. Hill can do those things just fine.
    I was getting ready to say the same thing.....he comes across half court and usually gives the ball to a wing or dumps it down low and then goes and hangs out on one side of the court......you don't need to be a "true" point guard to pull that off.

    Plus Hill has better movement without the ball.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm rooting for Hill to start over DC. IMO he's not any worse at being a point guard than DC already is, they can both shoot and score pretty well, but:

    1) George is 6'2" and also bigger/stronger with longer arms, DC is barely 6'0" and of small stature in general
    2) George plays great defense most of the time, DC struggles to play average defense most of the time.

    I'm all for this. If for some reason it doesn't work, worry about that then, but it seems like a good idea to try this.
    I wonder were are the people that critized you few weeks ago from bringing this idea up?

  20. #39
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I wonder were are the people that critized you few weeks ago from bringing this idea up?
    Here. I didn't comment on it before but I still don't think that this is a good move for George Hill.

  21. #40

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    DC isn't terrible by any means, but I've come around to realize that he's just not the PG I was expecting when we acquired him.

    Name a PG that Bird has gotten that has been what was expected?

    Cabbages
    Ford
    Jack
    Watson
    Diener
    Price
    DC
    Stephenson
    Hill


    I know who I liked best of the lot, but that doesn't make them the ideal PG the Pacers needed.

    This reminds me of the musical chairs of qtrbacks for the Bears between Wade and Jim Mc.

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  23. #41

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep I predicted since the trade happened that Hill was going to take the starting PG spot from DC, I still think is going to happen and I would love if that happens


    but at the end of the day or year, we are going to still need an starting PG.
    The 2nd part is what I thanked you for.

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  25. #42

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    This move will hurt 2 players... Price and Stephenson. Probably Price more than Lance, since Lance is Bird's pet project.

  26. #43
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Name a PG that Bird has gotten that has been what was expected?

    Cabbages
    Ford
    Jack
    Watson
    Diener
    Price
    DC
    Stephenson
    Hill


    I know who I liked best of the lot, but that doesn't make them the ideal PG the Pacers needed.

    This reminds me of the musical chairs of qtrbacks for the Bears between Wade and Jim Mc.
    Great analogy with the Bears. Before Cutler, it was McMahon the last true quarterback the bears had

    Jammal Tinsley was our last PG , that was exceeding initial expectations....

    Been a trainwreck ever since
    Sittin on top of the world!

  27. #44

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    This move will hurt 2 players... Price and Stephenson. Probably Price more than Lance, since Lance is Bird's pet project.
    I don't think it would hurt either of them.

    I figured, that regardless of how well AJ played, he was going back to the bench the second Hill was healthy. He doesn't deserve it but I think it was pretty obvious that was going to happen. (Seeing as it happened before..) So Price isn't hurt, he's just back at where he was.

    And if you make the switch of Hill being the starter, than that would probably mean more minutes for Lance. Because Hill played both positions, but won't be able to do that as much if he's starting at PG. DC can't play both positions, so Lance splits more backup SG minutes with Dahntay.

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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Cabbages
    What was wrong with Sarunas? I wasn't watching any NBA basketball back then so I don't know what went wrong. Was his bad defense the cause of him not being what we were expecting?

  29. #46
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Lineup change. Collison was benched for his defense two games ago, Hill is a good defender, our bench needs more scoring, Vogel's new comments, etc. It feels like all signs are pointing in the direction of a lineup change.
    Close to 100% of what Vogel does with the personnel aligns with my views...and I think Hill should start. If that doesn't happen, it will be the first time I've disagreed with Vogel to date...

  30. #47
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Hill isn't a point guard. Before he was injured, we were all discussing whether AJ needed to be a part of the bench unit because Hill wasn't a point guard. I know people don't think DC's a point guard, but he clearly ran an offense significantly better, IMO. And it's not like our offense was good to start out with.

    Regardless, it would be a mistake to take either of them out of the starting lineup. If you need to give Hill more minutes, because either one is playing poorly, that's fine. But don't screw up chemistry.
    We just came off an extremely ugly 5-game losing streak. I don't think we should worry about screwing up chemistry as much as we should worry about putting our team in the best position to be successful.

  31. #48
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I am just not aware of anything DC does with those four starters that Hill can't do. And defensively it's not debatable as to the upgrade.

    Most of our best passing comes from West and Roy anyway. When DC does have the ball, it's usually giving the ball up on the side, running a pick and roll, or feeding the post. Hill can do those things just fine.
    Bingo x 3.

    There isn't anything Collison can do better than Hill. Maybe his mid range game is better...but not a lot better. Hill, OTOH, is a much, much better at the other half of the entire game. Makes him a much better player to have on the court IMO. Super critical to defend that PG spot in today's NBA.

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  33. #49
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    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    I remember there were a couple of times this year I was really impressed with Darren's defense... That's the problem, I only remember a couple of times.
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  35. #50

    Default Re: A change in the lineup once Hill returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Close to 100% of what Vogel does with the personnel aligns with my views...and I think Hill should start. If that doesn't happen, it will be the first time I've disagreed with Vogel to date...
    not saying you're wrong, but it seems vogel thinks more of DC than most of the PD posters. DC was leading the team in minutes played, [he still might be]. guys that get all the minutes are the guys the coach thinks is the best players.

    jmho, but hill makes a real nice combo guard, but he doesn't seem to have the handles or court vision to be a PG full time.

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