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Thread: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    According to your argument AJ, Tyler, Lou and DJ had a great game againts Miami
    you're hopeless.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If by "playing well" you mean playing horrible D and putting up good offensive numbers then you are 100% right.
    Hold on, are you talking about Danny Granger or Monta Ellis?

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Hold on, are you talking about Danny Granger or Monta Ellis?
    Hey at least I can admit that Monta is not a great defender, I'm unlike some people here that love to look the other way regarding Danny and other players.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    You also thought Danny was playing bad defense when he was putting up amazing defensive numbers. And then after I had already cited those numbers you just tried saying that people were basing their opinions off of blocks and steals.

    Remember that conversation? I do, and I'll take the time to look it up if you'd like.


    The point is that Danny was playing excellent defense, and you were still *****ing. The common theme? You *****ing.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You also thought Danny was playing bad defense when he was putting up amazing defensive numbers. And then after I had already cited those numbers you just tried saying that people were basing their opinions off of blocks and steals.

    Remember that conversation? I do, and I'll take the time to look it up if you'd like.


    The point is that Danny was playing excellent defense, and you were still *****ing. The common theme? You *****ing.
    Was Danny and the team playing better D or they were playing teams that were not firing in all the cylinders? Remember when I kept saying to wait few more games before crowning him DPOY? To me Danny has been playing the same D all year long, the only difference is that we finally got to play some real teams.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Hey at least I can admit that Monta is not a great defender, I'm unlike some people here that love to look the other way regarding Danny and other players.
    Maybe, but it doesn't begin to explain your fascination with wanting to swap one for the other.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Maybe, but it doesn't begin to explain your fascination with wanting to swap one for the other.
    Maybe if you don't block me every time you feel sensitive you would know about it

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Was Danny and the team playing better D or they were playing teams that were not firing in all the cylinders? Remember when I kept saying to wait few more games before crowning him DPOY? To me Danny has been playing the same D all year long, the only difference is that we finally got to play some real teams.
    You are one of those people aren't you?
    People, just because a player doesn't make defensive team or DPOY doesn't make him a defensive liability. I would take Danny over all but a select few defensive wings in the NBA there are only a few I wouldn't:
    Deng (That's damn close though)
    Lebron
    Durant
    Iggy
    Danny is a top tier Wing. Not a superstar but one of the best in the league no doubt. Defensively he is better or as good as: Melo, Pierce, Hill...

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    You're not blind or crazy Vnzla81. My brother and his friends make you look like a Danny Fanboy. I respect their opinions because they all played organized ball from middle school through college. You're in the minority here, but around the country I think you'll find quite a few people who agree with you that Danny's a good player, but a player with a lot of holes in his game.

    People can't seem to understand that we actually like Danny and think we can win with him, but we're gonna need Paul to learn to dribble and become a super star or we're gonna need to get a star PG.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Maybe if you don't block me every time you feel sensitive you would know about it
    Is it because I feel sensitive or is it because I get tired of reading the same thing over and over?

    I'm just saying to continually champion to trade Granger while he is playing well offensively for a guy like Monta who is just as bad if not worse defensively AND smaller doesn't make much sense to me.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    You're not blind or crazy Vnzla81. My brother and his friends make you look like a Danny Fanboy. I respect their opinions because they all played organized ball from middle school through college. You're in the minority here, but around the country I think you'll find quite a few people who agree with you that Danny's a good player, but a player with a lot of holes in his game.

    People can't seem to understand that we actually like Danny and think we can win with him, but we're gonna need Paul to learn to dribble and become a super star or we're gonna need to get a star PG.
    I don't think anybody is misunderstanding that. Obviously Danny has a whole lot of holes in his game, what hurts Vnzla's argument against Danny is when he is constantly trying to swap him straight up for guys who have just as many holes if not more.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    I'm going to muddy the waters alittle with this post. I asked a question yesterday. I asked what season Granger was an Allstar. Since I got no response, I looked up Granger's career stats. It looks like his best year at 25 ppg was the 08-09 season, so I'm guessing that was his Allstar season. What I then noticed was every year since his ppg has dropped to 18 ppg this season. Granger's best season FG% was his rookie year at 46%. Since his Allstar season, his FG% has declined as well to 39% this season. You can make whatever you want out of these stats. Something or nothing.

    The reason I wanted to know was b/c it seems Hibbert's game has declined since it was announced he was going to be an Allstar, JMO. I wanted to see if there was some correlation to being an Allstar, and how they played afterwards. I would hope there isn't a let down in a Pacers players game after being an Allstar. It probably means nothing, but I was just interested.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    You're not blind or crazy Vnzla81. My brother and his friends make you look like a Danny Fanboy. I respect their opinions because they all played organized ball from middle school through college. You're in the minority here, but around the country I think you'll find quite a few people who agree with you that Danny's a good player, but a player with a lot of holes in his game.

    People can't seem to understand that we actually like Danny and think we can win with him, but we're gonna need Paul to learn to dribble and become a super star or we're gonna need to get a star PG.
    You see I don't think anyone is in the minority with this opinion. I'm one of Danny's biggest defenders here and I will be the first to tell you that he has a lot of holes in his game.

    I will tell you he is not an elite player. There are times he plays like an elite player and there are times he plays like a 10th man but more often than not he plays on the upper side of a really good player.

    Vnzla & I both see the same thing we just come at it from different points of view. He sees everybody jumping on hand grenades to protect Danny from criticism & I see everybody rushing to throw hand grenades for unjust criticism.

    If my position has not been clear before let me make it so now.

    Danny Granger is NOT in the caliber of Durrant, Rose, James, Bryant, etc.

    Danny Granger is in the caliber of Iggy, Johnson, Deng, Gay, etc.

    At any point in time you could take the latter mentioned 4 players & add Danny and make an argument that at any given time one of them is better than the other but none of them is head and shoulders above the other.

    Danny is the best player on our team, a lot of people don't think he's good enough (which I'm about to address in my next post) so therefor every time he has a 6-20 game he is scrutinzed (which he deserves to be) but when he has a game like last night or like his game vs. the Wolves it is seen as an aberation.


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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    One good game and we crown him as the savior? and yes Kravitz 6 and 20 is more likely to happen.

    People here think I hate Danny, I don't, I just hate the way people overrated the crap out him, he is a good player in the mold of Deng, Iguadola, etc but he is best served as the 3rd best player in a championship team.
    This part of the argument is the one I have the most trouble with. Not that I disagree with the thought but the fact that people (not just you) make this statement as though this is Danny Grangers fault.

    He is our best player, why is it his fault that the Pacers have never been able to either trade for or draft a player that is better than him?

    In a couple of years I believe that George will surpass him and because of his perimeter defense I think he might be able to be better than Danny ever was (although I don't beleive he will score what Danny did during his 26ppg season but even I will admit that was inflated due to Satan's offense).

    I will always understand when someone questions his defensive intensity during a game, I will understand when they say something about shot selection, I will understand when they say he is not a good ball handler or a below average passer.

    But I will never understand the argument that it is somehow Danny Grangers fault that he is the best player on a team.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 02-19-2012 at 12:45 AM.


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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Kravitz misses the point. Yes, Granger is clutch. One of the most clutch players in this league. Yes, he's a good player.

    But his fault is not that he doesn't score a million points every night. His fault is that he's too lazy, too often, on defense, and takes dumb shots outside of crunch time.

    Look, I like Granger. Really. Contrary to my gripes, he's the perfect team player, he's clutch, he wins, he gets this team. But Kravitz acts like the only reason people get upset is because he's not Kobe. No. The reason people get upset is because he's shown he can be one of the top defenders at his position in the entire NBA, and then he only sporadically plays up to that level, when theoretically having this added talent around him should allow him to concentrate MORE on defense.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Kravitz misses the point. Yes, Granger is clutch. One of the most clutch players in this league. Yes, he's a good player.

    But his fault is not that he doesn't score a million points every night. His fault is that he's too lazy, too often, on defense, and takes dumb shots outside of crunch time.

    Look, I like Granger. Really. Contrary to my gripes, he's the perfect team player, he's clutch, he wins, he gets this team. But Kravitz acts like the only reason people get upset is because he's not Kobe. No. The reason people get upset is because he's shown he can be one of the top defenders at his position in the entire NBA, and then he only sporadically plays up to that level, when theoretically having this added talent around him should allow him to concentrate MORE on defense.
    In other words your mad that he aint Lebron James. Cause thats what you are asking for.
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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Is it because I feel sensitive or is it because I get tired of reading the same thing over and over?

    I'm just saying to continually champion to trade Granger while he is playing well offensively for a guy like Monta who is just as bad if not worse defensively AND smaller doesn't make much sense to me.
    Danny hasn't been playing well offensively this year.

    People here sometimes are too sensitive to see the two sides of the deal, I explained this to Peck the other time, some people say that I think that Danny is crap because I want to trade him straight up for a guy who I think is better at everything but shooting threes, why would I think that GS would take that deal if I think that Danny has no value? I don't get it.

    Like I said before to me Monta is an step below guys like Rose and Westbrook, if you look at his numbers and production he is right there with them, right now he is rated as the 3rd best SG in the league after Dwade and Kobe.

    It could be perfect if we could send a bag of cheetos to GS for Monta but I know that's not going to happen, we have to send some value to get some value back and to me the only person that has that big of a value and makes sense for GS is Danny, I don't think PG or anybody else gets a deal done with GS(not trading Roy), they already have a rookie who they think is going to be good. Again is there is a way to get Monta without having to move Danny,PG or Hibbert I'm all for it.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
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    This was a great, not good, article about Granger. Way to go, Kravvy! If we're going to be critical of players, be critical of the ones who deserve it:

    Collison -- Streaky. A defensive liability. AJ Price played pretty much the entire 4th quarter vs. New Jersey because we couldn't risk DC being on the floor. He's had two games in which he's posted zero assists. Has played his way this season into well-deserved trade bait.

    Hansbrough -- By any reasonable measurement, Psycho T has regressed since last season. "Scrappy" can only get you so far in this league. Misses more shots than he makes, flails and flops down the lane like a mean drunk, and the moment he puts the ball on the floor everyone in the arena just waits for the turnover.

    Jones -- From his Duke pedigree to his cheap fouls, I hate almost everything about him.

    Hibbert -- I realize this violates some unspoken commandment that "Thou shalt not speak ill of 55," but let's be honest for once. Have you ever seen a big man with that size and skillset who has no finishing move at the rim? If Roy is going up with a shot under the basket and is matched up against a defender with any physicality, that's a missed shot more than half the time. Yes, Roy has soft hands, a nice floater, and a sweet hook shot (when he's in rhythm), but a guy that big and that good needs to be dunking balls through defenders' faces. And what is up with his conditioning? Vogel had to pull him for most of the 4th vs. NJ because he looked like he was about to collapse from exhaustion. As Michael Grady says, "Roy isn't grabbing his knees during timeouts, he's grabbing his ankles."
    You had me until the Hibbert section.

    1. There was this skinny dude named Ferdinand (but preferred to go by his middle name, Lewis, Lew for short) that went to school out west someplace who ended up hanging around the league for 20 or so years who tended to shoot hook shots instead of dunking. He ended up setting a few records, including being the all time leading scorer in the league without dunking too many balls through defenders faces.

    2. Roy did extensive conditioning and bulking up work which has been well publicized. Unfortunately, muscle tissue consumes oxygen at a high rate, which probably becomes difficult for Roy to maintain as an asthma sufferer.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Danny is the best player on our team, a lot of people don't think he's good enough (which I'm about to address in my next post) so therefor every time he has a 6-20 game he is scrutinzed (which he deserves to be) but when he has a game like last night or like his game vs. the Wolves it is seen as an aberation.
    People just aren't seeing the long term though.

    In a few years, I think PG will be the best player on our team. Danny will be one heck of a "second best" player.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This part of the argument is the one I have the most trouble with. Not that I disagree with the thought but the fact that people (not just you) make this statement as though this is Danny Grangers fault.

    He is our best player, why is it his fault that the Pacers have never been able to either trade for or draft a player that is better than him?

    In a couple of years I believe that George will surpass him and because of his perimeter defense I think he might be able to be better than Danny ever was (although I don't beleive he will score what Danny did during his 26ppg season but even I will admit that was inflated due to Satan's offense).

    I will always understand when someone questions his defensive intensity during a game, I will understand when they say something about shot selection, I will understand when they say he is not a good ball handler or a below average passer.

    But I will never understand the argument that it is somehow Danny Grangers fault that he is the best player on a team.
    The been the "3rd best player on a championship team" should not offend anybody, I just made that comment because sometimes I get the feeling that some people think we have the "next coming" in our hands, you know like somebody thinking that we have the next Reggie or something like that

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    In other words your mad that he aint Lebron James. Cause thats what you are asking for.
    And the award for Overreaction of the Year goes to...

    Seriously no. I'm mad Danny doesn't give a better effort on defense. That's it. No one is saying he has to average 18 PPG and play amazing defense on top of it. We're saying he can play amazing defense, he's shown he can play amazing defense, and he needs to concentrate on playing amazing defense, because he doesn't have to spend it all on the other end of the court.

    Basically Danny is the anti-Paul George from Vogel's quote in that article. Vogel says Paul spends it all on defense. Danny spends it all on offense. Danny just needs to be more balanced.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Was Danny and the team playing better D or they were playing teams that were not firing in all the cylinders? Remember when I kept saying to wait few more games before crowning him DPOY? To me Danny has been playing the same D all year long, the only difference is that we finally got to play some real teams.
    The discussion took place about 10-15 games into the season. So now you're position is that Danny really wasn't playing that good of defense, just 10-15 teams full of players who Danny guarded all had off nights for those numbers to arise?



    Like I said, no substance. You throw crap out just to see if it sticks to the wall.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    In other words your mad that he aint Lebron James. Cause thats what you are asking for.
    You can repeat your line about how "the biggest problem with Danny Granger is that he isn't Lebron James" as many times as you want, which has been plenty already, but it's just as silly and inaccurate now as it was the first time.
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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Hmmm...
    I think that little bobby just can't write a column without getting in a cheap shot. I'll need to see some better confirmation before I will believe it. Wish we had reporting in Indianapolis that I could believe.

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    Default Re: Kravits article about Danny... (Vnzla81 you'll want to skip this) :)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    I think that little bobby just can't write a column without getting in a cheap shot. I'll need to see some better confirmation before I will believe it. Wish we had reporting in Indianapolis that I could believe.
    Those wild and crazy Indianapolis Star reporters. Always fabricating stories without any truth to them.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 02-17-2012 at 02:50 PM.
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