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Thread: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    [QUOTE=speakout4;1385688]
    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Nah, not even lose.... I have had this life long problem with horse's and the people who speak from that end......[/QUOTE

    Quoting Naptown -failed retirement?
    I am not retired..... The problem I had before was called thedarkhorseone.... But you do remind me a lot of him.... Do you have dual identities..

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1385689]
    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    I am not retired..... The problem I had before was called thedarkhorseone.... But you do remind me a lot of him.... Do you have dual identities..
    Have no idea what your talking about but it must be weird.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    [QUOTE=speakout4;1385690]
    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Have no idea what your talking about but it must be weird.
    Sure you do......

  4. #129

    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1385691]
    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Sure you do......
    if you say so! Just weird and getting weirder.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Nah, not even lose.... I have had this life long problem with horse's and the people who speak from that end......
    In all these events there is one common denominator ....

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    In all these events there is one common denominator ....
    And that common denominator is always the southbound side of a northbound horse.......

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    this is a great debate going on...glad to see the maturity at such a high level (sarcasm).

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  9. #133
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    The only thing we know for certain is Peyton's health is still in question.

    If it was such a sure thing that Peyton will be 100% by the start of next season, then the colts wouldn't think twice about keeping to the terms of his current contract and paying him the bonus.

    If it was such a sure thing, then Garcon and Wayne would have signed because they want to play with Manning and they would know Manning would remain with the Colts because of the the Colts would be keeping the current contract.

    Finally, if it was such a sure thing, then why all the talk about Manning doing a contract based on games played. That stuff is only done for people that are at risk to not play the games.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    It's about to be March 1st people. Peyton's own agent, who'd be the first to do it, hasn't even come out and said anything close to he's ready to play. You don't pick up a 28 million dollar option, after just giving him 26 million, on a 36 year old QB with an entirely new coaching staff, with maybe a new top 2 WRs, a new C, and maybe no Clark. And even if everyone's back and Peyton's healthy, what's the top end, 9 wins?

    I like the guy as much as anyone, but it's time to move on. I get that that's really hard with the 10+ years of stability the franchise has had, but it's just true.
    You must not like to read huh? I havent seen 1 person who thinks its logical to pay the bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Colts need to just renegotiate a contract with Peyton if possible, even if it is after he becomes a free agent, trade the #1 for the #2 pick and a 2nd and 4th round from the Rams.

    It will benefit both teams, Rams can then trade that pick for future first as well as first this year and other picks. Now the Colts can take whoever falls to 2 most likely Griffin who I have no problems with as a QB. The only thing that I worried about with him before the combine was his size which was much better than I had expected.
    I posted this exact scenario in this thread, or one of the many Manning threads, and pretty much got pushed aside. Keeping PM is the extremley unpopular opinion here, but this would be my ideal scenario. Keep Peyton, who I honestly believe will play @ high level again, and you have your future waiting on the bench. Not to mention another pick or 2.

    Its kind of funny though seeing peoples opinion change (even if just a little bit) after every bit of news that says PM is indeed making progress. Bc a month ago there was hardly a single person who would even entertain the idea of having Manning back, and much less concerning not having Luck at all
    Last edited by CreekShow; 03-01-2012 at 06:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    You need to take remedial reading classes because what i said was that the rehab is ongoing and reaching 100% may take a while if it happens at all. Then the "no one knows" comment refers to exactly where he is now whether it is 30, 40, 60% etc.
    You seem to have a knack or is it a talent to misinterpret what others are saying.
    I can read just fine. You're also the person who told me that my opinion wasn't based in medical facts.

    How'd that one turn out for you?

    Dont be mad just because you can't keep your **** together between one post to the next. If you don't know how his nerve's will regenerate, then you shouldn't be saying that they won't come back to 100%.

    Read a couple articles from Cooper Manning talking about what his experiences were like with this surgery. Go read about Chris Weinke's experiences. Hell, look up some of the article from doctors that I've already posted.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-01-2012 at 09:18 AM.

  12. #136
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Creek,
    The problem is that scenario requires Peyton to renegotiate a new contract, and one that would be palatable to the Colts given the circumstances. The question then gets murky because there are so many variable to be considered- Does Peyton even want to come back to the Colts without his full, existing contract (is it a diss if they let it lapse)? Is the currect Colts situation a place he wants to be? Is there a mutually agreeable number/contract for the two parties?

    Meanwhile, the Colts would have to prefer RGIII over Luck. I'm not sure they do. It doesn't appear that way.

    So all of these scenarios to keep Peyton here have to remember he has a compromise to make himself if he wants to return. The team is clearly rebuilding and so it's not practical to think they will start the rebuild with any kind of anchor of a contract to Manning.

    And lastly, it doesn't matter what they could do... Because if they want Luck there are no real options except to use that first pick on him.
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Here you go speakout. For something you seem to know can't happen.

    Weinke has shared his experience with Manning and thinks four-time NFL MVP will return to play again at a high level as he continues his rehabilitation from four surgeries, including one that was not publicly acknowledged between last May 23 and that September anterior fusion surgery, according to SI.com.

    "I've spoken to Peyton early on in the process,'' Weinke told USA TODAY Thursday. "My gut feeling: It's not a question of if he can get back healthy because it's already been proven it can happen because I went through it.

    "It comes down to Peyton and what he wants. My gut tells me he wants to come back and play. My gut also tells me he's going to come back and be just as good if not better than he was prior to the surgery.''

    What is encouraging for Manning as he awaits regeneration of nerves in his right triceps muscle is that Weinke overcame full regeneration of nerves in his throwing arm.

    Weinke's throwing arm went dead after he was blasted by then-Virginia defensive end Patrick Kearney during a November, 1998 game.

    "I lost everything, full atrophy in my throwing arm, the nerves that control my right arm were damaged,'' the former Seminoles quarterback said. "My head was awkward and I got involved in a head-on collision.

    "I had total nerve regeneration. So I had to in essence re-teach myself to throw.''
    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...od-or-better/1

    Oh, and in the very next year he only won the Heisman and NCAA championship.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-01-2012 at 09:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by CreekShow View Post
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    You must not like to read huh? I havent seen 1 person who thinks its logical to pay the bonus.



    I posted this exact scenario in this thread, or one of the many Manning threads, and pretty much got pushed aside. Keeping PM is the extremley unpopular opinion here, but this would be my ideal scenario. Keep Peyton, who I honestly believe will play @ high level again, and you have your future waiting on the bench. Not to mention another pick or 2.

    Its kind of funny though seeing peoples opinion change (even if just a little bit) after every bit of news that says PM is indeed making progress. Bc a month ago there was hardly a single person who would even entertain the idea of having Manning back, and much less concerning not having Luck at all

    Perhaps a better way to look at it is that if the Colts do not sign Peyton, he damn sure better never be back to 100% and playing at a high level in the playoffs for some other team. If the Colts make that mistake, they will lose a whole lot of fans and their will be empty seats in the house that Peyton built. Peyton is not going to move the March 8 date back because if the Colts do not decide to keep him by then, he needs to be looking for his next team. I'll keep up with the Colts and I'll tune in to see how they are doing but I'm going to be watching Peyton wherever he is. This does not mean that I am a Peyton fan and not a Colt fan. As for the $28 million, you are paying for what Peyton has already done here.......

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Creek,
    The problem is that scenario requires Peyton to renegotiate a new contract, and one that would be palatable to the Colts given the circumstances. The question then gets murky because there are so many variable to be considered- Does Peyton even want to come back to the Colts without his full, existing contract (is it a diss if they let it lapse)? Is the currect Colts situation a place he wants to be? Is there a mutually agreeable number/contract for the two parties?

    Meanwhile, the Colts would have to prefer RGIII over Luck. I'm not sure they do. It doesn't appear that way.

    So all of these scenarios to keep Peyton here have to remember he has a compromise to make himself if he wants to return. The team is clearly rebuilding and so it's not practical to think they will start the rebuild with any kind of anchor of a contract to Manning.

    And lastly, it doesn't matter what they could do... Because if they want Luck there are no real options except to use that first pick on him.
    I can def agree with all of that. Which is why the ball is in Peytons court now. If he really means what hes said all along (that he wants to retire a Colt) then he will have to do so on a restructured contract. If not, then we know the money is whats most important. That would change my entire stance on the situation.

    I understand you cant pay his contract out (which Colts are lucky bc they could have just as easily been stuck paying the whole contract w/o the option PM insisted on adding.) Its just time for Peyton to really decide whats more important, the money or the fans and franchise he helped build.

    Deep down I believe regardless of what happens w the draft, that Irsay isnt dumb enough to let a possibly healthy Manning just walk out to another team.
    Last edited by CreekShow; 03-01-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    And that common denominator is always the southbound side of a northbound horse.......
    That must be some kind of slinky horse, like the slinky dog, capable of having its ends move in two directions 180 degrees apart.



    I think you mean the south side of a northbound horse....
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    That must be some kind of slinky horse, like the slinky dog, capable of having its ends move in two directions 180 degrees apart.



    I think you mean the south side of a northbound horse....
    It is all me... I just can't seem to get along with horses in any way....

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    I think if there's any owner in the NFL that would go the extra mile trying to keep his star QB while also not ignoring the long term future of the franchise with a young possible franchise QB available for the picking, it's Irsay.

    I think Irsay will offer and do more than any other owner would in this situation to keep Manning. But at the end of the day I'm not sure it will be enough when the big picture is taken into account. The big picture includes the hindsight of the team Polian built that could only muster 2 wins last season, Manning's uncertain injury status and timeline, and several teams likely willing to throw caution to the wind in order to take a chance on Manning and without the worry about having a #1 pick in the draft or an existing QB they consider the future of their franchise enough to worry about for long term.

    And lastly, Irsay might offer a lot, even more than he should when the cap is considered and with the rebuilding necessary... But Manning still might like other options better or expect more from the Colts. There's a point Irsay has to be smart when he steps back and takes the emotion out of the decision and has to think long term.
    Last edited by Bball; 03-01-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I think if there's any owner in the NFL that would go the extra mile trying to keep his star QB while also not ignoring the long term future of the franchise with a young possible franchise QB available for the picking, it's Irsay.

    I think Irsay will offer and do more than any other owner would in this situation to keep Manning. But at the end of the day I'm not sure it will be enough when the big picture is taken into account. The big picture includes the hindsight of the team Polian built that could only muster 2 wins last season, Manning's uncertain injury status and timeline, and several teams likely willing to throw caution to the wind in order to take a chance on Manning and without the worry about having a #1 pick in the draft or an existing QB they consider the future of their franchise enough to worry about for long term.
    I believe you are close to the truth. If they team had won a couple of more games and not gotten the rights to Luck or RGIII, Irsay would probably have just paid the $28 million hoping Peyton would be back to normal......

  22. #144

    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I can read just fine. You're also the person who told me that my opinion wasn't based in medical facts.

    How'd that one turn out for you?

    Dont be mad just because you can't keep your **** together between one post to the next. If you don't know how his nerve's will regenerate, then you shouldn't be saying that they won't come back to 100%.

    Read a couple articles from Cooper Manning talking about what his experiences were like with this surgery. Go read about Chris Weinke's experiences. Hell, look up some of the article from doctors that I've already posted.
    Sample of n=2-- very impressive statistic. For every two you name there are any many others who are not so fortunate and the regeneration a) takes time and b) depends on the severity of the insult to the nerve. If the nerves were pinched over a long period of time or severely pinched then the recovery is prolonged if it occurs at all. That is all I'm saying, Manning could be ready to go now, in September 2012, next year, or never. We will see what happens next week.
    Last edited by speakout4; 03-01-2012 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Yeah, becaue there's only two In our last discussion about this, I linked Dr. Hsu's study, which involved 99 players, and you told me that my opinion wasn't medically based.

    I don't know if you simply don't read the sources provided, can't read them, or just forget them as soon as you do, but something isn't connecting.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    To quote the good Dr. Hsu, for about the 10th time since you don't ever care to read/remember it.

    This is a pretty common surgery in professional and NFL players, and they do better than what many people think. I've heard people say it's really hard to get back from a neck injury, how if you have surgery, you don't come back, but that's simply not true. I think Peyton, being the stalwart that he is, playing the position that he does, has a very, very good prognosis for coming back
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-the-situation

  25. #147

    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    To quote the good Dr. Hsu, for about the 10th time since you don't ever care to read/remember it.


    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-the-situation
    He is talking about the spinal fusion which can be accompanied by nerve deficits or no nerve deficits. Much of the time there is no nerve damage so yes it is easy to predict recovery. You just can't lump spinal fusions into a single class. As for his fusion there probably is complete success but as for his muscle weakness we will just have to wait until we see how well he can throw-- what his arm velocity is, how well he can hit certain spots on the field, if he can hit a target with a soft or hard pass, etc. After all the years of honing his skills we will see exactly what is left and what isn't.

    If the expert had talked about the nerve problem and muscle atrophy as separate issues that would have been helpful. Spinal fusions are commonly done on people who have no muscle or nerve degeneration at all.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    He is talking about the spinal fusion which can be accompanied by nerve deficits or no nerve deficits. Much of the time there is no nerve damage so yes it is easy to predict recovery. You just can't lump spinal fusions into a single class. As for his fusion there probably is complete success but as for his muscle weakness we will just have to wait until we see how well he can throw-- what his arm velocity is, how well he can hit certain spots on the field, if he can hit a target with a soft or hard pass, etc. After all the years of honing his skills we will see exactly what is left and what isn't.

    If the expert had talked about the nerve problem and muscle atrophy as separate issues that would have been helpful. Spinal fusions are commonly done on people who have no muscle or nerve degeneration at all.
    How about this. Polian said he was throwing 20 to 30 yard passes with zip in December. According to everyone with an inside, he is throwing longer and getting stronger every day. Other teams are going to take a chance on him but the Colts will not? The fans are going to be loud and ugly when Luck falls on his *** and the losses pile up and Peyton is out somewhere playing well and getting to the playoffs. Some of them will NEVER come back..........

  27. #149
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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    Other teams aren't as depleted as the Colts and are in better position to take a gamble on Manning on the chance that he can play anywhere near his prime at his old age and injury concerns.

    Colts may take that chance if Manning is willing to restructure his contract. However, at that point it's not necessarily the Colts decision but Manning's decision as he is an unrestricted free agent. unrestricted is the key word.

    If Manning doesn't choose the Colts then I doubt many would stop being Colts fans. And regardless of Manning, Colts need a good QB as either a starter or the backup plan.

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    Default Re: Irsay: Talking regularly with Manning about staying with team.

    I still have faith that Peyton comes back. I think the Colts will be willing to offer a contract that is similar to anything else he can fetch on the open market. And I think Peyton will view finishing his career here as being a better option than going to a mediocre team in X city and completely starting over. If the Colts offer a similar contract to another team but Peyton still chooses to bail then that's on him and I won't be upset at the Colts at all.

    Yes, we were 2-14 last season which is abysmal. But we had the worst quarterback play in the entire league. I don't think any team in the history of the NFL has ever rolled out a trio of QB's that are as bad as 39 y/o Collins/Painter/Orvlosky. You can't win much with such bad quarterback play, yet we still had a chance to win several games early in the season. A QB with even mediocre ability would have won those games. With Peyton they would have been slaughters. We would have absolutely stomped Pitt with a healthy Peyton. Peyton knows all of this.

    Irsay knows that fans would be steamed if they had to watch Peyton hang 30 touchdowns with a different logo on his helmet. It's not like the Packers with Favre who knew that there was no way the guy could play that much longer when they let him go, because if Peyton is healthy he could feasibly play several more years.

    Regardless of what happens with Peyton, I just don't see the Colts not picking Luck. It would be very gutsy for them to go beyond the overwhelming mainstream consensus that Luck should be the #1 pick. Whenever Peyton doesn't play, whether that be this year or in a couple years from now, the Colts are going to be trying to keep fans. The last thing they want, IMO, is for some gutsy move to blow up in their face. If Luck was great and the Colts didn't pick him, there would be years of upset fans. If it's the other way around though and Luck doesn't live up to potential then at least the Colts would be able to play the "well practically everyone would have picked him at 1" card.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-02-2012 at 07:19 AM.

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