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Thread: This team has quit...again

  1. #51
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    [/B]



    ... Hyperbole much? Sorry I had to Picard you but are you ever going to add anything to the conversation or are you just here to rag on other posters so you can collect thanks? Do you mind occasionally throwing out an opinion or point of view please?



    If I made a list of all the things that are slowing us down Lances's jump shot would be at the very bottom. We got bigger problems than that.

    BTW AJ had better than Lance like minutes last year (16mpg). What he do with those minutes? He shot 35% - last in the league.

    Not trying to bash AJ here. Just sticking up for Lance.
    Well if you are not trying to bash Price then maybe you shouldn't bash him. You don't have to bash him to stand up for Lance. So don't pretend saying, "Not trying to bash AJ" means anything if you just hashed him.

  2. #52
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He want's to be like Traders Joe.
    And to think I took you off ignore today. Also, isn't this post...hmm, sort of ironic?

    I like how you always act there is only one side in my arguments, but remember it takes two to tango.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 02-16-2012 at 01:59 PM.

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  3. #53

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I know you are referring to AJ and I agree. When he gets consistent minutes his play gets more consistent. He is not a microwave and needs rhythm to produce.

    Lance's lack of hitting a jumper is slowing this team down. When Hill comes back I would like to see AJ get Lance like minutes for 3 weeks.
    Funny enough, as much as I like AJ. I wasn't actually thinking about him when I wrote this. (more like, not being afraid to sit vets West and Granger, for their more energetic and more likely to put in effort counterparts Tyler and Dahntay), and DC's one of the few whose effort I don't question (on the starters.)

    Do I think AJ should be playing ahead of Lance, absolutely. But not for effort reasons. Because there's only two point guards on the team, and he's one of them - and Lance and GHill aren't. I've been pretty strong on my praise for Lance when it comes to effort. I just think you need to play a point guard.

    And I don't think that means you have to completely sit down Lance, I think we can still find spot minutes for him. Just in terms of what he does on the court, it's not as valuable as AJ or Hill and at some point, we have to think about wins over development - particularly when the other two guys are pretty darn young themselves.

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  5. #54
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I like how you always act there is only one side in my arguments, but remember it takes two to tango.
    Not around here. I've been told that a few times.

  6. #55
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Funny enough, as much as I like AJ. I wasn't actually thinking about him when I wrote this. (more like, not being afraid to sit vets West and Granger, for their more energetic and more likely to put in effort counterparts Tyler and Dahntay), and DC's one of the few whose effort I don't question (on the starters.)

    Do I think AJ should be playing ahead of Lance, absolutely. But not for effort reasons. Because there's only two point guards on the team, and he's one of them - and Lance and GHill aren't. I've been pretty strong on my praise for Lance when it comes to effort. I just think you need to play a point guard.

    And I don't think that means you have to completely sit down Lance, I think we can still find spot minutes for him. Just in terms of what he does on the court, it's not as valuable as AJ or Hill and at some point, we have to think about wins over development - particularly when the other two guys are pretty darn young themselves.
    Agree tih you on the "egg timer " quote

    I think AJ deserves minutes and will play better as he gets consistent minutes, but I still say Lance can be /is a PG, and more effective with the ball in his hands

    but we have been down that road many times , and ok to differ in opinion

    PS boy did your Huskies put the smack down on De Paul last ngiht
    Sittin on top of the world!

  7. #56
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm starting to think this could be some long-term fatigue, not anything recent. The first half of this busy schedule, all of the traveling from a ton of road games, and to be competing hard against some really good teams (enough to beat them in their own floor, no less)... I just think that whole long stretch caught up with them, and as it was about to finally wind down I think they subconsciously finally let themselves exhale and feel how tired they really were. You can accrue fatigue over a long period of time from high effor and/or low sleep.

    High long term fatigue could account for the low energy/poor body language, the extra missed shots, and the less than sharp minds that can slow down assignments/rotations. I think it could be the biggest factor here.

    And again the Hill/Granger injuries do no favors, plus now that it's a losing streak players aren't trusting the system as much because they badly want to provide some kind of spark, but what happens is unless they get hot, going away from the team gameplan otherwise backfires.

    All-star break can't get here fast enough IMO.
    I would agree with this, but I would have hoped that a young team like ours would feel the fatigue less. When you factor that into the recent surges by the veteran teams I'm starting to wonder if we made a mistake by starting so hot so early and establishing a pace that we can't sustain.


    Or...we're letting us cool off and then repushing late in the season. But that would be very dangerous, as getting back into peak form is really hard and its hard to get a team to surge at the right time. But hopefully they will. I would maintain that Vogel, despite my stance on him, did get the team to surge enough late last season to make them play well in the playoffs.

    I hope he can make them surge at the right time again. Otherwise the fear is that we have already played our best basketball....in the regular season.

  8. #57
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    A Flox sighting !!

    How ironic as I voted you for "Post more often"

    How are things in New Jersuleum?

    Just because OBIE is gone , no need to stay away, in fact sometimes I wish OBIE provied ONLY offensive advice as man we are struggling in that area
    Sittin on top of the world!

  9. #58

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Agree tih you on the "egg timer " quote

    I think AJ deserves minutes and will play better as he gets consistent minutes, but I still say Lance can be /is a PG, and more effective with the ball in his hands

    but we have been down that road many times , and ok to differ in opinion

    PS boy did your Huskies put the smack down on De Paul last ngiht
    Yea, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Although, I think, even if you are right eventually, Lance isn't ready for that yet.

    Didn't notice about the Huskies..I pretty much gave up on them. They were playing considerably worse than the Pacers.

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  11. #59
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by crazylikeafox View Post
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    Maybe the coaching ghost of JOB has shown up.

    :FACEPALM: :FACEPALM:


    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Why is this so surprising to everybody? There is really no need to panic. They'll probably run off a stretch of 6 straight wins leading to the Chicago game, starting tonight. They have 4 games against the 2 worst teams in the league, and 2 home games against teams that have combined to win 19 games.

    This team is who we all should have known they were, from the very beginning. They won more than their share of close games, and played a really weak schedule early. They've lost a couple close games, and got blown out by a far superior team. Last night was a stinker, but a .500 (or maybe slightly better) team will have those on occasion. It happens, and it will happen again this year.

    Everyone overreacted to the good record early, and now are overreacting to a bad stretch now. This is who they've always been. I fully expect this 5 game losing streak to be followed up by a 6 game win streak, and then everybody will think we're back to being contenders, when in reality we've been the same all along.
    Man hotstreaks...do they exist? How do they work?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    A Flox sighting !!

    How ironic as I voted you for "Post more often"

    How are things in New Jersuleum?

    Just because OBIE is gone , no need to stay away, in fact sometimes I wish OBIE provied ONLY offensive advice as man we are struggling in that area
    Trying to find a job. =(. But with the recent 5 game losing streak, I thought I'd chime in since I don't think we're this bad. This losing streak is a bad sign but we still have to remind ourselves of who was out during this stretch, but also, more importantly, how we're actually playing.

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  13. #60
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    [/B]

    If I made a list of all the things that are slowing us down Lances's jump shot would be at the very bottom. We got bigger problems than that.
    I agree. I wish I would have ranked them so you didn't have to address that. Next time I will be sure to put the 5 things above everything I comment on.
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    [/B]
    BTW AJ had better than Lance like minutes last year (16mpg). What he do with those minutes? He shot 35% - last in the league.

    Not trying to bash AJ here. Just sticking up for Lance.
    That was last year. And if I had to pick a backup PG between last year's AJ and this years Lance I don't think it would be as easy as you would like. Please do not look but Lance is only shooting 2% better than last year's AJ---http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind/stats

    Lance's defense is getting better. But I still do not know about the sustainability of his offensive game. He can get to the rim. And either throw up crap, get stuffed, turnover the ball, or score.

    Neither of them are great. But we are seeing AJ playing better and more consistently. So that is why I think he should play more. Lance supporters want to see him play more why?

    I liked Lance over AJ to start the season to see what Lance can bring thus far into his career. I have seen it and I think the experiment needs to be put on hold for later.

  14. #61

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    I think all we're seeing right now is what happens when medicore (say average if that sounds nicer to you) players lose their confidence. Outside of Danny and West, we have a roster full of mediocre players.

    You can say what you want about Hibbert's pre-slide consistency but he's a mediocre player until he becomes agressive at setting up and demanding the ball. Same with PG-- just mediocre until he develops any semblance of consistency. Collison, Hill-- both mediocre (say average) players.

    Early in the year they were playing with supreme confidence and they gutted out a lot of early victories. Some time around the well-publicized "fix the offense" sessions, players began to doubt themselves and they're a .500 team since then.

  15. #62

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Well if you are not trying to bash Price then maybe you shouldn't bash him. You don't have to bash him to stand up for Lance. So don't pretend saying, "Not trying to bash AJ" means anything if you just hashed him.


    Sorry I had to pull your Picard too, but nowhere did I bash AJ. I stated a fact.

    People want to bench Lance 30 games in after AJ had 82 last year to show what he could do. It just ain't fair.


    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I agree. I wish I would have ranked them so you didn't have to address that. Next time I will be sure to put the 5 things above everything I comment on.

    That was last year. And if I had to pick a backup PG between last year's AJ and this years Lance I don't think it would be as easy as you would like. Please do not look but Lance is only shooting 2% better than last year's AJ---http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind/stats

    Lance's defense is getting better. But I still do not know about the sustainability of his offensive game. He can get to the rim. And either throw up crap, get stuffed, turnover the ball, or score.

    Neither of them are great. But we are seeing AJ playing better and more consistently. So that is why I think he should play more. Lance supporters want to see him play more why?

    I liked Lance over AJ to start the season to see what Lance can bring thus far into his career. I have seen it and I think the experiment needs to be put on hold for later.
    The man's 21 years old, and one the most talented players on the team. If you and others don't think so that's your right, but me personally, I'm gonna side with the Legend on this one.

  16. #63
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    The man's 21 years old, and one the most talented players on the team. If you and others don't think so that's your right, but me personally, I'm gonna side with the Legend on this one.
    Talent does not equate the best player on the team. We have talked about how you talent can be equated potential. And potential is met with wisdom and maturation. And you need some playing time to get that. And getting that playing time might be detrimental to the chemistry of the team.

    If Larry really thinks that Lance is the best player, then why did he go out and get Hill? Or why didn't he release Price and save $700k? Why is Paul George and DC starting over him?

    Please do not qualify Bird's most talented quote with the most NBA readied player available.

    Right now it is debatable. But Lance is your boy. I understand. AJ is far from mine, I actually want Lance over him next year. But as for this year and the need to break this funk. I am willing to go with AJ for awhile like we did with Lance.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Am I the only one that thinks the Picard smiley has jumped the shark on this forum about 6 months ago?

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  19. #65

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Talent does not equate the best player on the team. We have talked about how you talent can be equated potential. And potential is met with wisdom and maturation. And you need some playing time to get that. And getting that playing time might be detrimental to the chemistry of the team.

    If Larry really thinks that Lance is the best player, then why did he go out and get Hill? Or why didn't he release Price and save $700k? Why is Paul George and DC starting over him?

    Please do not qualify Bird's most talented quote with the most NBA readied player available.

    Right now it is debatable. But Lance is your boy. I understand. AJ is far from mine, I actually want Lance over him next year. But as for this year and the need to break this funk. I am willing to go with AJ for awhile like we did with Lance.
    No ones said either of those things.

    Honestly, I agree with you that he's not a very good player right now. The point is, if we want to tap in to the talent Bird sees in Lance he's going to need playing time. If I thought the team would break out of it's funk and go onto the ECF with AJ as the back up PG I'd be all for it, but I don't think he makes that much of a difference.

    Don't get me wrong, I like AJ on this team. I think he's a good player that belongs in this league, but I'm not sure your championship material if he's logging major minutes at PG. It's not worth it to me for Lance's development to get stunted to win a few more games this year. JMO as always.

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  21. #66

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Am I the only one that thinks the Picard smiley has jumped the shark on this forum about 6 months ago?
    Deal with it gif Pictures, Images and Photos

    Sorry bro... just got here a few weeks ago.

  22. #67

    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    [/B]



    ... Hyperbole much? Sorry I had to Picard you but are you ever going to add anything to the conversation or are you just here to rag on other posters so you can collect thanks? Do you mind occasionally throwing out an opinion or point of view please?
    Yes, ill keep collecting THANKS, thats the only reason i wake up everyday.

    Ill add something for you, Pacers is in a slump, every team has them, even Heat or OKC or Spurs or whatever you pick. Team is young, playing their first winning season after ages, and most of the people tend to overreact on them both positively and negatively.

  23. #68
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Yea, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Although, I think, even if you are right eventually, Lance isn't ready for that yet.

    Didn't notice about the Huskies..I pretty much gave up on them. They were playing considerably worse than the Pacers.
    Sook your too good a fan , and Coach Calhoon is injured and when he gets back he is too good a coach

    I agree Lance isnt ready , unless were talking spot minutes here and there

    I will say this though, I wish when AJ and Lance are in the game together, the roles would be reveresed. I would ratehr Lance bring the ball up and initiate the offense while AJ played the SG. AJ is hands down a better outside shooter at this point than Lance and I would feel more comfortable with him in the corner than Lance

    Seriously not a knock on AJ but more on Lance as watching him spot up , I get the same amount of confidence I got when McBob would launch from deep
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    :FACEPALM: :FACEPALM:




    Man hotstreaks...do they exist? How do they work?



    Trying to find a job. =(. But with the recent 5 game losing streak, I thought I'd chime in since I don't think we're this bad. This losing streak is a bad sign but we still have to remind ourselves of who was out during this stretch, but also, more importantly, how we're actually playing.
    Flox

    PM me bro with your skills set and what your looking for., I still got a lot of contacts in the tri state area and might be of help
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  26. #70
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Lance has been more aggressive looking for his shot. Isn't that what we wanted? He just needs to stay away from the 3. 4-10 isn't the end of the world, and he had 2 steals. More importantly, 0 TOs. Lance has also been cutting down on his TOs. That marks improvement in my book.

    AJ is streaky, and a very poor streaky (career .379!). He'll have 3 or 4 good games, but then disappear for 10-12.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Lance has been more aggressive looking for his shot. Isn't that what we wanted? He just needs to stay away from the 3. 4-10 isn't the end of the world, and he had 2 steals. More importantly, 0 TOs. Lance has also been cutting down on his TOs. That marks improvement in my book.

    AJ is streaky, and a very poor streaky (career .379!). He'll have 3 or 4 good games, but then disappear for 10-12.
    What AJ has over LAnce right now is consistency. I trust AJ to make the right play moreso than Lance. The counterpoint to thsi is, that I believe Lance has abilities that AJ doesnt (posting up, strength, passing off the drive etc) thats why I want him to get consistent time, that is the only way to improve. I would love to see Lance play with the starters (i know it wont happen) because with the starters he would be a facilatotor and a good one, and might even be open more
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Am I the only one that thinks the Picard smiley has jumped the shark on this forum about 6 months ago?
    The guy is new to PD he doesn't know that, hey you just got 4 thanks on that comment that must make you feel good.......

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    I'm only a little worried, cause I would have expected them to come out guns blazing after the break before the Miami game, considering they will have a 5 day break over All-Star weekend (starting next Thursday).

    Hicks, I agree that we have to remind ourselves of the insane schedule so far this season, and empathize with the possibility that they are just extremely fatigued. I still thought they would have given more effort in the last week before a 5 day break.

    Maybe we will see that effort starting tonight. It could have been a sort of strategy not to blow it all against a superior Miami team and then be spent for the following two games. I still think we should have won last night, even without Granger. Central Division opponent, missing best player: I don't see a reason for the lack of motivation.

    So if its a counter fatigue strategy, I hope tonight we see its payoff. Then again, we didn't plan for a Granger injury.
    We got a new weapon this time around: a Lance forged on the Isle de Coney, built for piercing trolls and false kings alike! Prince Paul rides with this Lance at hand, from the West fortress on Mt. Hibb. He shall pierce the demon heart of your misguided Cavalier, and he shall claim his crown.

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  30. #74
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Trying to find a job. =(. But with the recent 5 game losing streak, I thought I'd chime in since I don't think we're this bad. This losing streak is a bad sign but we still have to remind ourselves of who was out during this stretch, but also, more importantly, how we're actually playing.
    I knew you were really JOB.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Nice work TJ
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