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Thread: This team has quit...again

  1. #26
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    I'm starting to think this could be some long-term fatigue, not anything recent. The first half of this busy schedule, all of the traveling from a ton of road games, and to be competing hard against some really good teams (enough to beat them in their own floor, no less)... I just think that whole long stretch caught up with them, and as it was about to finally wind down I think they subconsciously finally let themselves exhale and feel how tired they really were. You can accrue fatigue over a long period of time from high effor and/or low sleep.

    High long term fatigue could account for the low energy/poor body language, the extra missed shots, and the less than sharp minds that can slow down assignments/rotations. I think it could be the biggest factor here.

    And again the Hill/Granger injuries do no favors, plus now that it's a losing streak players aren't trusting the system as much because they badly want to provide some kind of spark, but what happens is unless they get hot, going away from the team gameplan otherwise backfires.

    All-star break can't get here fast enough IMO.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Well they had two days off before the Miami game and they looked worse than fatigued, they didn't even try to play the game and yesterday was just as bad.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Loss of effort or loss of confidence? They're easily mistaken for each other.

    I'm still not sure which it is, but I think (and hope) that it's more of a loss of confidence. Individually all we've ever heard is how hard these guys work, and we've seen proof to back it up. I have a hard time believing that collectively their will to work disappears.

    Not having confidence in yourself, nor your teammates, creates a lot of similiar problems as lack of effort.
    Safe to say one effects the other?
    Sittin on top of the world!

  5. #29
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I wouldn't be as worry if we lost 5 straight games by playing the right way, but we are not, it looks like the team is falling apart for some reason.
    Let's also not forget that we were supposed to have some type of advantage againts some of the teams we lost too, Memphis didn't have Zbo, Atlanta didn't have Horford, Denver didn't have Gallinari and Nene(half game), Miami is understandable because they are just that good and with Cleveland we were kind of even because they were missing Varejao and we were missing Danny(not saying that Varejao is equal to Danny but Varejao has been playing great this year 12 and 11).


    Yes I know that we are missing Hill and Foster but again I don't think we win either one of those games with them playing either.
    If I were to allow myself to go down this path then this is why I would. He's right, it's not the losing it's the way they have lost. That they have not even been in 3 of the 5 losses at all including the last two in a row.

    I'm not sure how I will feel if they come out and do the same tonight.

    I'm willing to accept a loss (pathetic that is has now come to this) if we at least look like a team that is trying. Because if there is no Hill, no Granger then that is a mighty chunk of our team. I don't consider Foster a big loss because he is here for one thing and one thing only, playoff toughness (yes I realize you have to get to the playoffs first).

    But if we come out and get blown out by 20+ points again, well I'm not sure if I will be able to be rational or not.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Safe to say one effects the other?
    Sure. It shouldn't, I mean nothing really should affect effort but being realistic it does.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Why is this so surprising to everybody? There is really no need to panic. They'll probably run off a stretch of 6 straight wins leading to the Chicago game, starting tonight. They have 4 games against the 2 worst teams in the league, and 2 home games against teams that have combined to win 19 games.

    This team is who we all should have known they were, from the very beginning. They won more than their share of close games, and played a really weak schedule early. They've lost a couple close games, and got blown out by a far superior team. Last night was a stinker, but a .500 (or maybe slightly better) team will have those on occasion. It happens, and it will happen again this year.

    Everyone overreacted to the good record early, and now are overreacting to a bad stretch now. This is who they've always been. I fully expect this 5 game losing streak to be followed up by a 6 game win streak, and then everybody will think we're back to being contenders, when in reality we've been the same all along.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm starting to think this could be some long-term fatigue, not anything recent. The first half of this busy schedule, all of the traveling from a ton of road games, and to be competing hard against some really good teams (enough to beat them in their own floor, no less)... I just think that whole long stretch caught up with them, and as it was about to finally wind down I think they subconsciously finally let themselves exhale and feel how tired they really were. You can accrue fatigue over a long period of time from high effor and/or low sleep.

    High long term fatigue could account for the low energy/poor body language, the extra missed shots, and the less than sharp minds that can slow down assignments/rotations. I think it could be the biggest factor here.

    And again the Hill/Granger injuries do no favors, plus now that it's a losing streak players aren't trusting the system as much because they badly want to provide some kind of spark, but what happens is unless they get hot, going away from the team gameplan otherwise backfires.

    All-star break can't get here fast enough IMO.
    Not to be too blunt here man, but that sounds nice but

    Chicago has played more road games than us and is 7-2 without Rose

    Something deeper than fatigue is going on here and I think the confidence of this team has been shattered
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Why is this so surprising to everybody? There is really no need to panic. They'll probably run off a stretch of 6 straight wins leading to the Chicago game, starting tonight. They have 4 games against the 2 worst teams in the league, and 2 home games against teams that have combined to win 19 games.

    This team is who we all should have known they were, from the very beginning. They won more than their share of close games, and played a really weak schedule early. They've lost a couple close games, and got blown out by a far superior team. Last night was a stinker, but a .500 (or maybe slightly better) team will have those on occasion. It happens, and it will happen again this year.

    Everyone overreacted to the good record early, and now are overreacting to a bad stretch now. This is who they've always been. I fully expect this 5 game losing streak to be followed up by a 6 game win streak, and then everybody will think we're back to being contenders, when in reality we've been the same all along.
    Because its a trend now. Not an abnormality. Its the way we have lost. Losing 5 games in a row to good teams where we putforth maximum effort would be one thing

    LAst ngiht was probably the most disappointing loss of the season . Guys looked lost out there and disinterested. How many wide open 3's did the Cavs get and knock down?
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  13. #34
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Not to be too blunt here man, but that sounds nice but

    Chicago has played more road games than us and is 7-2 without Rose

    Something deeper than fatigue is going on here and I think the confidence of this team has been shattered


    So because we didn't do as well as Chicago we suck?

    We're an upper-middle team, not an elite team. Our top players aren't historical superstars, so our bench needs to be better and isn't.

    Let's rein in the panic here.
    BillS

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Not to be too blunt here man, but that sounds nice but

    Chicago has played more road games than us and is 7-2 without Rose

    Something deeper than fatigue is going on here and I think the confidence of this team has been shattered
    Are we really going to compare the Bulls roster minus Rose and the Pacers roster minus Hill?

    Bulls still have better developed talent. Pacers might have more potential, but potential doesn't translate into results.

    If we had a supporting cast as good as Deng/Boozer/Noah/Gibson/Rip then I'd agree with you. But the supporting cast here in Pacers land isn't anywhere near that consistent of a level.

    It's not just one thing. It's just a big combination of tiredness, lack of confidence, lack of depth, lack of experience, etc.

    Not trying to make excuses, just giving an explanation. These are all things that every team has to deal with in their own ways. The Pacers just aren't handling them very well right now. The better teams find a way to fight through it.

    I fully expected a stretch of bad play. You're fooling yourself if you didn't think this season was going to have it's rough patches.

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  17. #36
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm starting to think this could be some long-term fatigue, not anything recent. The first half of this busy schedule, all of the traveling from a ton of road games, and to be competing hard against some really good teams (enough to beat them in their own floor, no less)... I just think that whole long stretch caught up with them, and as it was about to finally wind down I think they subconsciously finally let themselves exhale and feel how tired they really were. You can accrue fatigue over a long period of time from high effor and/or low sleep.

    High long term fatigue could account for the low energy/poor body language, the extra missed shots, and the less than sharp minds that can slow down assignments/rotations. I think it could be the biggest factor here.

    And again the Hill/Granger injuries do no favors, plus now that it's a losing streak players aren't trusting the system as much because they badly want to provide some kind of spark, but what happens is unless they get hot, going away from the team gameplan otherwise backfires.

    All-star break can't get here fast enough IMO.
    Totally agree here....the ASB will be a reprieve for this Team. If I were Vogel....I'd be calling for a mandatory practice for all the Players....heck, I'd even go as far as to banning all Players ( except for Hibbert and PG ) from going to Orlando and requiring some form of practice, bonding, sleepovers...whatever...to get the team Chemistry going again.

    But this begs the question....if the Team couldn't hack the schedule before the ASB....how are they going to hack the schedule after the ASB? If fatigue is a concern based off of the # of games played so far.......then they better figure out what they need to do now.....cuz looking at the schedule and # of games...especially in the last 6 weeks of the regular season.....things don't get any easier.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Totally agree here....the ASB will be a reprieve for this Team. If I were Vogel....I'd be calling for a mandatory practice for all the Players....heck, I'd even go as far as to banning all Players ( except for Hibbert and PG ) from going to Orlando and requiring some form of practice, bonding, sleepovers...whatever...to get the team Chemistry going again.
    Haha, there's no better way to get team chemistry back in order than to take away the only short vacation the players get all year.

    Which, by the way, would be totally against the NBA's rules.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Are we really going to compare the Bulls roster minus Rose and the Pacers roster minus Hill?

    Bulls still have better developed talent. Pacers might have more potential, but potential doesn't translate into results.

    If we had a supporting cast as good as Deng/Boozer/Noah/Gibson/Rip then I'd agree with you. But the supporting cast here in Pacers land isn't anywhere near that consistent of a level.

    It's not just one thing. It's just a big combination of tiredness, lack of confidence, lack of depth, lack of experience, etc.
    Well according to a lot of people here(including myself ) we thought we were as good as the Bulls without Drose, we thought Roy= Noah, Danny= Deng, West=Boozer, DC> Watson and Tyler= Gibson.

    I guess a lot of people were overrating our players then and even as a "hater" I was doing the same thing

  20. #39
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Haha, there's no better way to get team chemistry back in order than to take away the only short vacation the players get all year.

    Which, by the way, would be totally against the NBA's rules.
    What's wrong with having a get together at Bird's estate for some food and BBQ over the course of a few days?

    If, by accident, the Team somehow wanders into Bird's personal indoor basketball facility that is on his property, they are locked in and have long 8 hour practice drills over the course of a few days....then it happens. It's all on vacation time

    Heck, Vogel will even bring cookies....

    << do I really have to put this in green font? >>
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-16-2012 at 12:30 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  22. #40
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    What young player at the 1 is available for those 2. I am thinking the team that has a young 1 equal to DC and DG is not going to be ready to part with him, Monta is not that person.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    We are what we are right now. We have a ton of youth and a few veterans. I had anticipated that we would go through a cold streak at some point and that it would not be pretty. With Danny not being able to go just magnified the problem because he was doing so well defensively as well as injecting scoring when needed. I think once we get GH and Danny back we will be ok, but if a trade were to come available I wouldn't be upset if Danny, DC and cap space equaled out to a young player at the 1 spot.

  23. #41
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Can you let me in on what Bird is supposed to do to right the ship? What "things" have to change and how?


    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Look at the Knicks, they have won 7 in a row with Amare, Chandler, and Lin with a supporting cast of no names. Fields had 15/10/5 last night. The Pacers have better overall talent, right now, and can't win if their life depended on it. This is with D'Ant as coach. I've never been a D'Ant coach fan.

    Ginobli just came back and hasn't done much, but the Spurs have won 21 or so games with Parker, Duncan and a bunch of role players. It always helps when Pop is a great coach.

    Frustrating very frustrating to have been 17-7 only to watch the wheels fall off the wagon. What I see of late is little team play, poor rebing, terrible "D", not enough passing, players who don't seem to know or understand what they are suppose to be doing. THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE NOW! You can't lose to losing teams the next 6 games. This funk can't continue. If it does, it's on you Bird. You are the one in charge, and you are the one that makes the decisions. Do whatever is necessary Bird! I don't see sitting and watching losses as a great strategy while doing nothing and hoping things change. You tried that for 3 1/2 years. Tell us agai how that work out? Your leadership is needed to righten the ship, so don't fail us!

  24. #42
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So because we didn't do as well as Chicago we suck?

    We're an upper-middle team, not an elite team. Our top players aren't historical superstars, so our bench needs to be better and isn't.

    Let's rein in the panic here.
    Come on Bill AKA Mr Sunshine

    I never said we suck. I said to use the "fatigue factor" as an excuse holds no weight with me. I made an example using the bulls to say, that without their best player who us head and shoulders better than our best player they went 7-2 and have had more road games than the Pacers

    The reason Im worried is like VNZLA sai the way they are playing. If you watched last night they look like a completely different team than the one who beat the Mavericks

    Its the body language, its the effort, its the confidence level im concerened about

    Its not "OMG, they losta couple games in a row" that were close or we played well but lost at the end. This ahs been a downward spiral since the loss at Boston
    Sittin on top of the world!

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  26. #43
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Are we really going to compare the Bulls roster minus Rose and the Pacers roster minus Hill?

    Bulls still have better developed talent. Pacers might have more potential, but potential doesn't translate into results.

    If we had a supporting cast as good as Deng/Boozer/Noah/Gibson/Rip then I'd agree with you. But the supporting cast here in Pacers land isn't anywhere near that consistent of a level.

    It's not just one thing. It's just a big combination of tiredness, lack of confidence, lack of depth, lack of experience, etc.

    Not trying to make excuses, just giving an explanation. These are all things that every team has to deal with in their own ways. The Pacers just aren't handling them very well right now. The better teams find a way to fight through it.

    I fully expected a stretch of bad play. You're fooling yourself if you didn't think this season was going to have it's rough patches.
    Agian Bulls are just one compairson

    My point is only the WAY they are playing is very troubling
    Sittin on top of the world!

  27. #44
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Maybe the coaching ghost of JOB has shown up.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    This isn't fatigue.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Agian Bulls are just one compairson

    My point is only the WAY they are playing is very troubling
    If you're comparing them to the Bulls then sure. But if you're comparing them to other young up and coming teams, they all have their fair share of bad stretches.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by crazylikeafox View Post
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    Can you let me in on what Bird is supposed to do to right the ship? What "things" have to change and how?


    I never said I knew. I "expect" Bird to know, since he's in CHARGE "with access to what's going on." He's the one being paid millions to have the answers and resolve the problem. If he doesn't know or can't fix the problem, then he's not the job he was hired and paid to do.

  31. #48
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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    If you're comparing them to the Bulls then sure. But if you're comparing them to other young up and coming teams, they all have their fair share of bad stretches.
    Sure and agree they will have bad stretches but to me that would mean losing 1-3 games in a row to teams that went deep into the playoffs last year and the games were competitive and we played the way we played earlier in the season, but lost in the end

    This is different to me becuase we look like a shell of our former selves
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by Saras View Post
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    Pacers winning : Pacers are 1 player away from winning it all, Pacers an elite team, why fans dont attend pacers game, I LOVE this team.

    Pacers lose : They quit, we have only 1 decent player, Pacers is in the bottom of the league, no wonder noone watches this heartless team, cant watch this terrible team atm, gonna start cheering for them when they start winning.




    ... Hyperbole much? Sorry I had to Picard you but are you ever going to add anything to the conversation or are you just here to rag on other posters so you can collect thanks? Do you mind occasionally throwing out an opinion or point of view please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I know you are referring to AJ and I agree. When he gets consistent minutes his play gets more consistent. He is not a microwave and needs rhythm to produce.

    Lance's lack of hitting a jumper is slowing this team down. When Hill comes back I would like to see AJ get Lance like minutes for 3 weeks.
    If I made a list of all the things that are slowing us down Lances's jump shot would be at the very bottom. We got bigger problems than that.

    BTW AJ had better than Lance like minutes last year (16mpg). What he do with those minutes? He shot 35% - last in the league.

    Not trying to bash AJ here. Just sticking up for Lance.

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    Default Re: This team has quit...again

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    [/B]


    ... Hyperbole much? Sorry I had to Picard you but are you ever going to add anything to the conversation or are you just here to rag on other posters so you can collect thanks? .
    He want's to be like Traders Joe.

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