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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    GHill or Collison. Maybe both.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Folks keep talking about getting a scorer that is capable creating for himself. And, I have to admit, I have been down that path as well.

    But that just won't do it. Getting that scorer will help some, but it is simply not enough. That will not make Granger, Hibbert, West nor anyone else on the floor better.

    The only way you make all these other players better is to acquire a player that is able to deliver them the ball surely and accurately where and when they need it.

    And less face it, I'd rather find ways to improve the play of everyone on the team as opposed to just adding one good player that can score.

    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.
    Nash or Rondo.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I'd love to try and pry Reggie Jackson away from the Thunder.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

  4. #54
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I think Peck is referring to Boomer. He broke the backboard at the HS gym and became a YouTube sensation and it's went to his head.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  6. #55
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    The ingredients are not complicated...

    1) Consistent effort and intensity
    2) Defend
    3) Rebound
    4) Offensive movement (ball and player)

    How can we have swung so 180 on these things we succeeded in the first part of the season?

    1) Team chemistry?
    2) Coaching?
    3) Some early luck/taking advantage of opponents' slow, post-lockout start
    4) Teams have adjusted to us and we have failed to adjust to the adjustments (both coaching and playing)?
    5) Injuries?

    Certainly it's probably some of all. The question that remains to be seen over this pre-ASB stretch, IMO, is do we have the personnel/talent, coaching chops, and intestinal fortitude to start moving this back in the right direction?

    I think we should see progress in that direction before the ASB despite injury returns given the alleged level of opponents. Plus, injuries are part of game, so we need to learn how to maintain a semblance of decent play when they inevitably occur.

    EDIT: NJ would be a good place to start. Show in a b 2 b 2 b situation that you can overcome some adversity. That's what it's going to take. If you want to be a legit NBA competitor, you've got to show the will to overcome obstacles. When will this happen for us, if at all? Just man up is all they have to do. And no more f-ing proclamations in the press like "must win" blah, blah, blah. Dont say it. Just go DO it!
    Last edited by D-BONE; 02-16-2012 at 08:35 AM.
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  8. #56
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers problem is way bigger than just George Hil or Jeff Foster or Josh or Dunleavy or Rush or any other bench player.
    I don't think it's too much bigger than George Hill. We're leaning pretty heavily on players that are, in reality, 3rd level players. It's the reason we went out to get George Hill in the first place. He just fits better. I like Lance, Price, Jones in spot duty roles, with Gill getting the bulk of the bench time at the guard position.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I swear that by the time Hill comes back,some of the guys here will have hyped his return right up there with the second coming.
    Thing is are we a better team with Hill or without him?Of course is the former.Will he change the whole dynamic of the team and get this train back on track?I seriously doubt it because you can clearly see this is a collective collapse and not a player's one.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    edit: I think Vogel is a clear leader as a coach. From players saying they'd run through a brick wall for him, and from the adjustments in the third quarter. That said, he's a first year coach, and deserves a bit of leeway and time to learn how to deal with things. Two weeks ago, we were discussing him possibly being COY.
    They may be individually willing to run through brick walls for him, but right now they're not collectively trying very hard to win basketball games for him.

    I think Vogel has a ton of potential as a coach and that he's a pretty good coach right now. I just don't think he has the resume or the presence to say to guys "jump on my back and we'll get through this" when things go to crap.

    FWIW, the blame lies with the players far more than with Vogel, but if Greg Popovich were our coach, I'd feel much more confident right now.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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  14. #59
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I felt like the team came out after the half much more focused at the defensive end. Had they put out that effort from the beginning of the game we might be singing a different tune right now.

    I'm going to be very interested to see how they come out of the gates against NJ tonight.

    Overall, though, it isn't going to be fixed solely by playing defense with energy. If we don't stop missing bunny shots and free throws we could hold teams to below 75 and still lose.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Overall, though, it isn't going to be fixed solely by playing defense with energy. If we don't stop missing bunny shots and free throws we could hold teams to below 75 and still lose.
    It's still a better decision than to try and freely score with teams. If you can't score offensively, and you're giving up 60points in the first half, you've already lost by half time.

    Making it into the 4th quarter in a defensive struggle would atleast give them the opportunity to win.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I honestly think we'll be fine eventually.

    Get Danny and especially Hill healthy. Give one of the best coaching staffs in the league time to fully adjust to the X's and O's side of our problems. Let the increased depth of a healthy top 7 lower the minutes of our players and contribute towards getting more wind in our sales.

    I think as those all start to fall into place, we'll start winning more than we lose again; I really do.

    The question is when. Well, last I knew we should have both of those guys back no later than the end of the month/start of March, so I'm just going to try my best to wait it out until after the All-Star break. I think next month will exorcise these demons and get this 'train' back on the right 'track'.

    Just hold on until we get through these next couple of week or so; I don't think the sky is falling.

    I agree 100% for now. If this goes on for another week or two, then I might start to think differently. NBA teams go through stretches where they struggle, things often look the darkest just before they get better.

    I do wish the whole team, coaches, ball boys, players all had two days off, then about 10 days of training camp type practices and then continue the season after those 12 or 13 days. (of course probably every team in the NBA would want to do the same exact thing)

    Remember teams are not allowed to practice during the allstar break - actually only 1 practice Monday evening after the AS game .

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    If we don't stop missing bunny shots and free throws we could hold teams to below 75 and still lose.
    + a thousand times!!!!!! No concentration on free throws what so ever and the irritating thing is we're not talking fourth quarter I'm so dead tired free throws.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  21. #63
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's still a better decision than to try and freely score with teams. If you can't score offensively, and you're giving up 60points in the first half, you've already lost by half time.

    Making it into the 4th quarter in a defensive struggle would atleast give them the opportunity to win.
    Oh, yeah, definitely agree a defensive struggle with an opportunity to come back in the 4th is better than what we have now.

    However, having a lead on 40% shooting while defending well would be even better
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Bring in Steve Nash. Do pretty much whatever it takes without losing Hill, George, Granger, or Roy. DC, Hansbro, Dahntay, they're all expendable. We need to make moves now. If we send out draft picks, try to get some in return. You never know what those can turn into later.
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    In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Huh? Now why would it be him?
    I like Granger, but the last few years he seems to have a chippy attitude and a darkside to me. Hope I'm wrong.

    What year was Granger an Allstar?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I wasn't quick to decide that I thought I was watching a contender out on the floor, so I'm sure as hell not going to rush to the lifeboats of this allegedly sinking ship now, either.

    Fans can be so... fussy.

    I believe the word that best describes fans is FICKLE.

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  27. #67

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    It's also bigger than trading Danny Granger for Monta Ellis as well, which once again you are on that kick for some reason.

    Ask him why he didn't bring up Monta's game last nite?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Ask him why he didn't bring up Monta's game last nite?
    I did in another thread, Mark Jackson was running the "hot hand" in Nate until the "hot hand" burned his a** and lost the game for him.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    I swear that by the time Hill comes back,some of the guys here will have hyped his return right up there with the second coming.
    Thing is are we a better team with Hill or without him?Of course is the former.Will he change the whole dynamic of the team and get this train back on track?I seriously doubt it because you can clearly see this is a collective collapse and not a player's one.

    Nail meet hammer.

    Hill isn't what's going to save this team. It goes further and deeper than Hill being injured. The absence of Hill doesn't cause mental lapses, TO, poor reb, etc . If it did, he'd have to play 48 min to make sure these types of things don't happen. He didn't b4, and this team was winning when he wasn't in ther game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I did in another thread, Mark Jackson was running the "hot hand" in Nate until the "hot hand" burned his a** and lost the game for him.
    That explains why he didn't sub him in for Nate. But Curry and Thompson, along with Rush, were all in the game at that time. Why didn't he sub him in for one of those two?

    Especially Thompson. I didn't watch the entire game, only the 4th, but he wasn't shooting good then. Now looking at the box score it shows he wasn't shooting good at all.

    Curry also put up a stinker.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's still a better decision than to try and freely score with teams. If you can't score offensively, and you're giving up 60points in the first half, you've already lost by half time.

    Making it into the 4th quarter in a defensive struggle would atleast give them the opportunity to win.


    There was a time if the Pacers got behind I never doubted they wouldn't win. That feeling is gone. Now, I wonder when they get down if they can keep the loss to a minumum.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    That explains why he didn't sub him in for Nate. But Curry and Thompson, along with Rush, were all in the game at that time. Why didn't he sub him in for one of those two?

    Especially Thompson. I didn't watch the entire game, only the 4th, but he wasn't shooting good then. Now looking at the box score it shows he wasn't shooting good at all.

    Curry also put up a stinker.
    Yeah Curry and him were not shooting well at all, Monta was actually letting everybody else play last night and David Lee was on fire so they were giving Lee the ball, then Nate got on fire in the 4th quarter and Mark decided to keep him until the end even if it meant to keep Monta on the bench and let Crawford score on Nate at will, then Mark gave the ball to Nate in the last second to win or tie the game and tipical of Nate he turned the ball over for the clock to expired.


    Regarding Thompson and Rush I don't know what Mark was doing, you could see that he was just throwing crap at the wall to see what could work, everybody on twitter didn't know what happened yesterday.

  34. #73
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    There was a time if the Pacers got behind I never doubted they wouldn't win. That feeling is gone. Now, I wonder when they get down if they can keep the loss to a minumum.
    That is precisely why i am not attending tonights game. I'll watch from home. I'm not spending the time and resources to make it downtown to watch them trot out some futile effort to beat the Nets. i dont' mind if my team loses, but giving craptacular effort while doing so....well I can only watch that in person so much. I'll be back at the fieldhouse on Sunday or Tuesday.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  35. #74
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    West is the last player I would suspect at causing chemistry issues.
    And if he is then the rest of the team needs to sack up. Just my opinion though...West has only been regarded as a pro's pro by nearly everyone else in the league

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  37. #75
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I don't like the body language I've been seeing from Roy and Paul. I know that's not going to be popular to pick on those two, but they seem distant or something I can't figure it out. Maybe they started believing too many of their own press clippings? I'm not sure.

    I know Roy has been taken out of position a lot defensively, but what's Paul's excuse? He's been utterly terrible one defense for this entire 5 game stretch.

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