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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I've always been worried that there's a huge leadership void on this team that extended beyond the roster and into the coaching staff. I was hoping Brian Shaw and David West might fix this. Now I'm again worried that the only true leader involved with this team is the man who put it all together.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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  2. #27

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I honestly think we'll be fine eventually.

    Get Danny and especially Hill healthy. Give one of the best coaching staffs in the league time to fully adjust to the X's and O's side of our problems. Let the increased depth of a healthy top 7 lower the minutes of our players and contribute towards getting more wind in our sales.

    I think as those all start to fall into place, we'll start winning more than we lose again; I really do.

    The question is when. Well, last I knew we should have both of those guys back no later than the end of the month/start of March, so I'm just going to try my best to wait it out until after the All-Star break. I think next month will exorcise these demons and get this 'train' back on the right 'track'.

    Just hold on until we get through these next couple of week or so; I don't think the sky is falling.
    You know, I'm starting to think Hill really is an issue.

    At first I didn't, because the bench was playing terrible before Hill was injured, and has actually been quite a bit better as of late. The starters seemed to be the problem.

    But Hill as an individual is a different animal. He's like a sixth starter. PG has a lot of pressure on him, and it used to be that when he played poorly, Hill would just come in, and take the pressure off of him. Lance has put in a lot of effort and energy, but he can't defend or make shots like Hill can, so a lot more pressure is on PG.

    edit: I think Vogel is a clear leader as a coach. From players saying they'd run through a brick wall for him, and from the adjustments in the third quarter. That said, he's a first year coach, and deserves a bit of leeway and time to learn how to deal with things. Two weeks ago, we were discussing him possibly being COY.

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  4. #28
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I wasn't quick to decide that I thought I was watching a contender out on the floor, so I'm sure as hell not going to rush to the lifeboats of this allegedly sinking ship now, either. Fans can be so... fussy.

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  6. #29
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Well, since the other night Quinn mentioned West wanting the ball more and saying something after a game, then I'll just extrapolate from there and guess West is who Peck is thinking of.

    When Quinn said it I took it to be a positive thing because I got the feeling he felt the players needed to utilize West more himself.... But maybe it grew from that... and maybe the older vet isn't in the mood for the younger players' ideas.... and the younger guys take it more as wanting him some more 'me' than thinking of the team.

    But I'm just guessing....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Congrats, Peck.

    I do believe you may have started a witch hunt.

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  10. #31
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Well, since the other night Quinn mentioned West wanting the ball more and saying something after a game, then I'll just extrapolate from there and guess West is who Peck is thinking of.

    When Quinn said it I took it to be a positive thing because I got the feeling he felt the players needed to utilize West more himself.... But maybe it grew from that... and maybe the older vet isn't in the mood for the younger players' ideas.... and the younger guys take it more as wanting him some more 'me' than thinking of the team.

    But I'm just guessing....
    West was looking at DC like he wanted to kill him today, he had the ball in his hands and keep looking back at DC he looked mad.

  11. #32
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I'll tell you which player is causing chemistry problems: George Hill, because he's out. That messes up the team chemistry.

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I already regret posting that.

    I need to remember to not post these things till hours after a game when I am more collected.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I already regret posting that.
    You can make it stop by telling us who is the guy

  15. #35

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Sorry, I shouldn't have posted that to go along with your comment, but I was going to say it at some point anyway, as it was on my mind.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
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    I'll tell you which player is causing chemistry problems: George Hill, because he's out. That messes up the team chemistry.
    The Pacers problem is way bigger than just George Hil or Jeff Foster or Josh or Dunleavy or Rush or any other bench player.

  17. #37
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I already regret posting that.

    I need to remember to not post these things till hours after a game when I am more collected.
    I thought you were wanting to see if any of us had picked up on something/someone and didn't want to bias the discussion until the peanut gallery had chimed in...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  18. #38
    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    This worst thing about this losing streak is that I've watched only like one of the games. I'm not going back to LPBB after the game and seeing what went wrong. After the first quarter of games I've stopped checking the score. I'm taking it for granted that we will play poorly and probably lose. This feeling hasn't happened since the few games before JOB was canned. I'm definitely being fussy, but this team is in a bad place right now.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers problem is way bigger than just George Hil or Jeff Foster or Josh or Dunleavy or Rush or any other bench player.
    It's also bigger than trading Danny Granger for Monta Ellis as well, which once again you are on that kick for some reason.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    It's also bigger than trading Danny Granger for Monta Ellis as well, which once again you are on that kick for some reason.
    I've never say that trading Danny for him would fix all the issues.

    Edit: now I see what are you talking about, I was just having a conversation with an NBA writer on twitter, he always answers my questions and he was saying something related to Monta.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 02-16-2012 at 01:47 AM.

  21. #41

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    i just wish West wouldnt yell and one after every contact shot down low. he thinks he gets fouled everytime, gets real annoying.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Folks keep talking about getting a scorer that is capable creating for himself. And, I have to admit, I have been down that path as well.

    But that just won't do it. Getting that scorer will help some, but it is simply not enough. That will not make Granger, Hibbert, West nor anyone else on the floor better.

    The only way you make all these other players better is to acquire a player that is able to deliver them the ball surely and accurately where and when they need it.

    And less face it, I'd rather find ways to improve the play of everyone on the team as opposed to just adding one good player that can score.

    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Folks keep talking about getting a scorer that is capable creating for himself. And, I have to admit, I have been down that path as well.

    But that just won't do it. Getting that scorer will help some, but it is simply not enough. That will not make Granger, Hibbert, West nor anyone else on the floor better.

    The only way you make all these other players better is to acquire a player that is able to deliver them the ball surely and accurately where and when they need it.

    And less face it, I'd rather find ways to improve the play of everyone on the team as opposed to just adding one good player that can score.

    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.
    Wow welcome to the dark side

  26. #44

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Folks keep talking about getting a scorer that is capable creating for himself. And, I have to admit, I have been down that path as well.

    But that just won't do it. Getting that scorer will help some, but it is simply not enough. That will not make Granger, Hibbert, West nor anyone else on the floor better.

    The only way you make all these other players better is to acquire a player that is able to deliver them the ball surely and accurately where and when they need it.

    And less face it, I'd rather find ways to improve the play of everyone on the team as opposed to just adding one good player that can score.

    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.
    Monta or Nash can fit the bill. both can do each of those things quite well. if we have a chance to get either of them id do it.

  27. #45
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    I posted this in the postgame thread, but wanted to repeat my thoughts here..


    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    I am not sure what ails the team right now...
    But I have my own theories..

    I believe that the way this team is set up, is like a finely tuned machine...
    When 1 or 2 of the important "cogs" to the team is out , that the whole machine starts to break down... offensively, and more important, DEFENSIVELY...
    I mean come on, we were top 6 in the whole NBA on defense .. up untill the last 6 or 7 games... and moreso, ever since Hill got injured....

    The other thing, since our "machine" has broken down,on the offensive end, everyone is playing scared , seemingly not trusting in each other, resorting to playing more "me ball" instead of making the extra pass , running the play to get a good shot..

    As a result to all the above, AND this string of losses, I think what has happened is the proverbial "rookie wall" of sorts... But instead of it happening to a rookie PLAYER, it is happening to a rookie coach and a young team... Add in the psychological aspect, and I believe that is what we are seeing happen..

    I truly believe we will get through this , and by the first week of March we will be able to put this string of losses behind us and get back to playing like we should be...

    ..
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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  29. #46

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.
    Lets go see the Wizard Gif - Lets go see the Wizard!
    see more Gifs

    j/k... Seriously though, I think all of our guys scoring goes up with an Andre Miller type PG. To win a ring with the way the teams currently constructed though, I think we need a top flight PG.

  30. #47
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    They better be able to defend as well.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  31. #48
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Folks keep talking about getting a scorer that is capable creating for himself. And, I have to admit, I have been down that path as well.

    But that just won't do it. Getting that scorer will help some, but it is simply not enough. That will not make Granger, Hibbert, West nor anyone else on the floor better.

    The only way you make all these other players better is to acquire a player that is able to deliver them the ball surely and accurately where and when they need it.

    And less face it, I'd rather find ways to improve the play of everyone on the team as opposed to just adding one good player that can score.

    So, I've come around to thinking the way that some of you have been thinking for quite some time. If we want to see the most marked improvement in the players that we already have, then provide them with a PG that is a much better creator than the ones we already have.

    Our biggest need is not a scorer. It is a player that can make all of our present players better and more efficient scorers.
    You sir are correct... pretty much exactly what I was thinking of posting last night but was too lazy to do.

  32. #49
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
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    He seems to be frustrated almost all of the time imo. Likely because no one on this team seems to be able to get him the ball in the places he needs it.
    This.

    West is not causing the chemistry problems, he is just the one starting to scream help.

    I rewinded a play last night where West got upset after a shot clock violation. It was yet another instance where Collison dribbles, dribbles, and waits until single digits on the clock before someone else gets the ball.

    I've speculated in another thread that our losing streak is not the loss of George Hill's play itself, but his ability to halfway decently distribute and keep guys happy with touches in the right place. That has fallen apart.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 02-16-2012 at 05:39 AM.
    .

    .

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    .


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  34. #50
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Cleveland Rocks....

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    I think it's Danny. I think he got upset when Vogel let him set for 20 minutes when he was red hot the other night.
    He also skipped out on talking to the media after that game. Wells said it was maybe the 5th time's he ever done that in his career so he was clearly upset.

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