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Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

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  • #16
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

    I think the whole "man, we're deep" thing comes from we've got 5 guys on the bench that can legitimately play basketball. That's honestly something not a lot of teams have, there're a ton of jersey fillers around the NBA. The problem is there's no real 6th starter type. It's just a squad of goons that play hard and give effort but really just aren't all that skilled. There's not close to a consistent offensive performer that doesn't start (or that does lately), especially with Hill out. We desperately need a bench big that has some idea how to put his back to the basket.

    We're deep, but deep with mediocrity, at best.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
      Hansbrough has been inconsistent as of late
      Hard to be consistent when you don't consistently get the rock, most of the 6th man candidates are getting 10+ shots times a night. When Tyler gets it that much he's scoring 14.4 PPG in 7 games this year. That average is right there with Crawford, Harrington and the JET this year a few pegs below Harden and Lou Williams. But rather getting fed like a 6th man of the year candidate he's getting his career low in attempts in his career high in MPG.

      He's had 5 of those 7 games with Hill on board and Hill still got his shots (9.2 FGA per game} so with no Hill there is no reason he's shouldn't be used more. He's done it just two times without Hill in 9 games this year and somehow managed 3 times to get 3 or less shots something that never happened with Hill around.

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      • #18
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

        Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
        I think the whole "man, we're deep" thing comes from we've got 5 guys on the bench that can legitimately play basketball. That's honestly something not a lot of teams have, there're a ton of jersey fillers around the NBA. The problem is there's no real 6th starter type. It's just a squad of goons that play hard and give effort but really just aren't all that skilled. There's not close to a consistent offensive performer that doesn't start (or that does lately), especially with Hill out. We desperately need a bench big that has some idea how to put his back to the basket.
        I completely agree with this.

        As for the last part, Koufos would be great.
        Originally posted by IrishPacer
        Empty vessels make the most noise.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

          I suspect it's a combination of things. One thing I'd be curious about is seeing if the NBA as a whole has improved offensively. Our defense might've benefited from some early season NBA ragged offensive play as teams were rounding into shape.

          Our offense could use some consistent scoring threats. We still seem to be lacking that. Hibbert seems to have fallen away from that.

          I think the Hill injury is catching up. Our depth wasn't what we thought and the Hill injury really magnifies that. It also limits Vogel in the 4th qtr when he might like to finish the game with closers that might include Hill...

          I don't think extended mins for Lance is accomplishing anything if he's at the 2 position because he doesn't appear to be a shooting guard that can shoot a lick. If we're going to lose anyway, put him at the 1 and tell him to drive and dish and see how that part of his game develops with some legitimate options around him.

          I don't think it's helping that just as the team lost their swagger, other teams suddenly see the Pacers as a team to beat. We're getting everyone's best shot. And that is helping to expose some depth issues. But other than the argument the 1st unit is overused and mentally and physically worn down because the 2nd unit isn't getting more mins, it's hard to fault the 2nd unit when Miami buried the starters from the opening tip. ...and after the team had a couple of days of rest.

          When Hibbert is in a funk we don't have AD and DD to mix and match to replace him with.

          Roy's agent probably is wondering about that "we'll wait until summer to talk contract" stance he took....

          I think the team needs to be dangling Tyler out there to see if there's any interest in a trade and see what we could get back. I know I'll get shot for this but I'd consider Foster for a trade too... Maybe as a package... Not sure what that Foster/Tyler pkg would get us tho.
          Last edited by Bball; 02-15-2012, 05:46 AM.
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

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          • #20
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

            I am just glad there is another game in less than 24 hours. This game can go (*explitive)

            Having basicly accepted the loss at halftime, the second half wasn't as embarassing. I was at least glad to see Paul George get some developmental minutes at SF next to Lance. I still really would like to see PG and Danny stagger there rest time(obviously it wouldn't have mattered this game). I think PG would thrive being designated option one when Danny rests. It was also good to see Lance be the mature player while Howard got himself ejected, now if he could just make a jumpshot(i still expect his shot is better than we have seen in games to this point).

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            • #21
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

              It was so bad that I fell asleep on the couch about 5 mins into the game... woke up once with about 9 mins left in Q4, watched about 30 secs and turned the channel to the Westminster Dog Show, it was a much more competitive program... a Pekingese named Malachy won. I would take this dog running our point and 4 mutts that can catch a frisbee and give the Heat more competition than the Pacers did last night.

              Photobucket
              Last edited by FireTheCoach; 02-15-2012, 06:18 AM. Reason: none

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              • #22
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                The reason is Hill for the most part, when West goes out, Tyler in, our defense just collapses completely, he can not stay with his man, he's like a kid that sees something interesting everywhere but where he is supposed to be, he drifts over to help, so bad he set a screen for the opponent and yes that is by accident, he could not set a decent screen if he really tried it, his p&r is horrible to say the least (he's already left his man before the ballhandler even passed his screen), argh i better shut up. Hill's defense mostly "hides" that part, now it is out in the open.

                What happened last night ? watch the first 5 minutes, where their shots rattle in, our rattle out, and the refs had already made at least 5 dubious calls the other way,talking about deflating, it kills.

                We still 17 - 11 that is .650 ball and a long way from .450 from last season, we are nowhere near contenders, but who talked us into being one?
                So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

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                • #23
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                  Originally posted by spazzxb View Post
                  I am just glad there is another game in less than 24 hours. This game can go (*explitive)

                  Having basicly accepted the loss at halftime, the second half wasn't as embarassing. I was at least glad to see Paul George get some developmental minutes at SF next to Lance. I still really would like to see PG and Danny stagger there rest time(obviously it wouldn't have mattered this game). I think PG would thrive being designated option one when Danny rests. It was also good to see Lance be the mature player while Howard got himself ejected, now if he could just make a jumpshot(i still expect his shot is better than we have seen in games to this point).
                  The Heat he have 3 players that average more points per game than our leading scorer. There is plenty of scoring opportunities for Paul when Danny is in the game. Plenty. Paul just won't shoot. He makes it his mission in every game to defer to garbage offensive players, (and I say offensive, because they honestly offend me when they attemp to score) Jones, Price, and Lance. It's ridiculous.

                  Paul. SHOOT.

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                  • #24
                    its about having a scorer on the floor at all times. I still want them both to start.

                    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                      Originally posted by mattie View Post
                      The Heat he have 3 players that average more points per game than our leading scorer. There is plenty of scoring opportunities for Paul when Danny is in the game. Plenty. Paul just won't shoot. He makes it his mission in every game to defer to garbage offensive players, (and I say offensive, because they honestly offend me when they attemp to score) Jones, Price, and Lance. It's ridiculous.

                      Paul. SHOOT.
                      These are from our 4 game skid and show PG is shooting. Overall this month he's only second to Danny in attempts.

                      29-for-47 61.7% for David West
                      3-for-5 60.0% for Lou Amundson
                      12-for-24 50.0% for Tyler Hansbrough
                      2-for-4 50.0% for Jeff Foster
                      11-for-24 45.8% for A.J. Price
                      15-for-33 45.4% for Darren Collison
                      8-for-18 44.4% for Dahntay Jones
                      23-for-54 42.6% for Danny Granger
                      16-for-40 40.0% for Roy Hibbert
                      6-for-17 35.3% for Lance Stephenson
                      13-for-42 30.9% for Paul George

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                      • #26
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                        Hansbrough on ESPN Radio yesterday, sorry if its been posted.
                        http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7572560

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                        • #27
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                          Well, righting the ship needs to start tonight and be clearly underway by ASB given the alleged friendly schedule. Lots of good points in this thread. Here are ones I agree with and some I would add.

                          -Our depth was greatly exaggerated
                          -We benefited to a degree early from some friendly breaks and ineffective opponent offense post-lockout
                          -We tooted our own horns publicly too much on a few occasions in post-game celebrations in relatively meaningless early season games & generally in broadcasting how "smash mouth" and "tough guy" we are
                          - Our collection of talent as a whole is generally slow and our bigs are athletically limited, both of which are starting to be exposed
                          - Our PG play is just not what we need (more dependable defense and distribution to scorers); not that DC hasn't done a reasonable job with what he's got, but it's just not what we need

                          Cavs game is no gimmie. I will accept a L if the team looks like it has a heart. That is all.
                          I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                          -Emiliano Zapata

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                          • #28
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                            Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                            - Our PG play is just not what we need (more dependable defense and distribution to scorers); not that DC hasn't done a reasonable job with what he's got, but it's just not what we need
                            Yep.

                            I think you've got to factor in the correlation between this downslide and George Hill's absence.

                            It took a few games after Hill's departure before we started losing bad. I'm wondering if the bigger effect was not losing George's play on either end, but losing his ability to pass and feed the post. He is not great at it, but he is decent, and compared to Collison, fantastic.

                            I'm wondering if team chemistry began to slowly erode as the other players stopped getting the ball as regularly in the spots they like.
                            "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                              Originally posted by able View Post
                              we are nowhere near contenders, but who talked us into being one?
                              That's the problem, I think. Some people thought that we were contenders when we won Minny and Dallas B2B in their homes. The "Contenders or Pretenders" talk had some people believing this as well.

                              Also, remember when some people whined when the media gave us no love and when we played with empty stands despite being undefeated at home? The media started giving us love and the Fieldhouse started to fill with people (for various reasons). What happened? We started to lose at home.

                              Remember when we were saying that we are the league's best kept secret? Guess what. If you say that in public, it's not a secret anymore.

                              Teams started adjusting to us. They started taking us seriously. At the same time, our players were either tired or overconfident and stopped giving their full effort. Teams started outhustling us. And, of course, we started losing.

                              That's the key issue, I think. We were dubbed "contenders" and this brought negative results to our team. That's why a lot of people here are heavily disappointed. I doubt that a similar losing streak would bring these reactions last year when our goal was to play .500 ball.
                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Can't stand the Heat

                                Originally posted by Peck
                                Danny Granger rolled his ego at the end of the 1st quarter went to the locker room and did not return. His ego is day to day at this point.
                                You can't blame DG for last night. He tripped and fell into that lifeboat that took him to the locker room. Totally not his fault.

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