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Thread: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So which one isn't worthy of your "top 8"? Jeff, or Tyler? I would think Jeff, but with how much Tyler has disappointed, I could see it the other way as well.

    Big if's, but if Jeff can play aside from back-to-backs and Tyler pulls his head out of his butt, I like our top 8 very much.
    My 7 are what I refer to as the "Starting 7".....DC/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert/GH/Hansbrough....I like what Inferno and Foster do...but they are IMHO...Role Players that should be brought in during the Playoffs to fill specific roles...when we need defense and some energy.

    I know that that may sound crazy....but I think that the Pacers are in a unique position to get at least 1 ( hopefully 2 ) Players to get quality Players that could fill out the 8th or 9th Player spots in the rotation. Yes, having Inferno and Foster as the 9th to 11th Players in the rotation maybe a luxury...but that's what I want...a bench that is deep enough where we have very good Players like Inferno and Foster come in when they are truly needed.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Jeff doesn't play nearly enough to ever be considered a part of a big anything. He's like the really funny uncle that only shows up to Christmas every 5-8 years.
    Yeah....but he's also the uncle that everyone looks forward to seeing that shows up during Christmas and brings all the reallly nice and expensive gifts.

    We just need Foster to show up in April, May and ( God willing ) June. He's the type of Player that you can "plug into the lineup" and play.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Just because the Pacers do not have anyone else coming off the bench that is worth a crap does not mean Hill is worth 7mil per year. There are a bunch of equivalents around the league at his age with his production coming off the bench that are in the 4mil per year area.

    This doesn't mean he doesn't have value to our team, but unless he comes back and shows something more then his past NBA career, he is simply not worth 7mil.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    More than they miss Brandon Rush...

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Just because the Pacers do not have anyone else coming off the bench that is worth a crap does not mean Hill is worth 7mil per year. There are a bunch of equivalents around the league at his age with his production coming off the bench that are in the 4mil per year area.

    This doesn't mean he doesn't have value to our team, but unless he comes back and shows something more then his past NBA career, he is simply not worth 7mil.
    Who do you see as 4m equivalents that are not on rookie deals?

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Who do you see as 4m equivalents that are not on rookie deals?
    Go here http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salaries
    Or here http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/index.jsp

    Go thru the teams and you will find 1 to 3 players per team generally that will be getting paid 3 to 5 mil per year that is a role player, A 6th to 8th man off the bench, depending on position.

    I'll throw some names up I know of off the top of my head. You'll have to do your own leg work.

    Morrow, Sessions, Jordan Farmar, Luke Ridnour, Daniel Gibson, Tony Allen, Lowery, JJ Barea...this is just a sample and I didn't get into other positions like a Millicic or Pekovic. 3 to 5 mil is the mid level exception area.

    I can only think of a few that are in that 7 to 8 mil area... Mo Williams, JJ Reddick, Paul Millsap, Devin Harris, Arron Afflalo...I don't put Hill in these guys category and yet Harris, Reddick, Williams are overpaid and some would say Afflalo got a righteous contract, we will see how bloated it is in due time.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Looking back, I think the Pacers miss him about 2-3 wins worth. I honestly believe the Pacers beat Denver/Memphis with him, and quite possibly Orlando. His 10 points/defense/clutch play would have made a huge difference in all of those losses.

    3-5 could easily have been 7-1.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    I think they miss him mote due to the other options. Stephenson and Price have gotten a lot more minutes. Though Price played well last game, the Pacers miss Hill on both ends of the floor. I know Lance is young and has played better, I would just like to see him do more. I mean the guy is playing SG and can't hit a spot up jumper. This is fine if he's a defensive specialist and that's not the case. Without Hill, we pretty much have the same backcourt as last year without Rush and Dunleavy, and that's not good once Collison and Paul George go to the bench. Even Granger to some extent.

    We need Hill back, and I still feel we need to add another wing somehow as well as a big. We only have 13 on the roster, and w/ Hill and Foster missing time, only 11 dressed, 10 as Pendergraph simply just suits up for garbage time.

    Hopefully having a spot or 2 available comes in handy sooner or later

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Go here http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salaries
    Or here http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/index.jsp

    Go thru the teams and you will find 1 to 3 players per team generally that will be getting paid 3 to 5 mil per year that is a role player, A 6th to 8th man off the bench, depending on position.

    I'll throw some names up I know of off the top of my head. You'll have to do your own leg work.

    Morrow, Sessions, Jordan Farmar, Luke Ridnour, Daniel Gibson, Tony Allen, Lowery, JJ Barea...this is just a sample and I didn't get into other positions like a Millicic or Pekovic. 3 to 5 mil is the mid level exception area.

    I can only think of a few that are in that 7 to 8 mil area... Mo Williams, JJ Reddick, Paul Millsap, Devin Harris, Arron Afflalo...I don't put Hill in these guys category and yet Harris, Reddick, Williams are overpaid and some would say Afflalo got a righteous contract, we will see how bloated it is in due time.
    Your using Marrow, Sessions, Farmar, Ridnour, and Gibson for your argument? Hill is better than all of those players you just mentioned. You could even argue that he's better/more well rounded than reddick, williams and Harris as well. I don't necessarily think he deserves 7-8 million, but I think he's better than most of the players you just named. Just my opinion
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 02-13-2012 at 09:42 PM.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So which one isn't worthy of your "top 8"? Jeff, or Tyler? I would think Jeff, but with how much Tyler has disappointed, I could see it the other way as well.

    Big if's, but if Jeff can play aside from back-to-backs and Tyler pulls his head out of his butt, I like our top 8 very much.
    I can't include Jeff because even before the season I figured he'd play maybe 20 games. Tyler is one of the 7 and even though he has struggled, he's hugely important to our goal of playing smash mouth basketball, and the physical tone he sets I don't think can be overlooked

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I can't include Jeff because even before the season I figured he'd play maybe 20 games. Tyler is one of the 7 and even though he has struggled, he's hugely important to our goal of playing smash mouth basketball, and the physical tone he sets I don't think can be overlooked
    Has Tyler let you down at all this year? I've found him mostly underwhelming.

    He's starting to remind me of Croshere in that Cro was a guy who seemed to give you more when you played him big minutes, yet less when you limited his minutes (of course I mean that beyond the obvious of less minutes meaning less opportunities). This is opposed to a guy like Jeff who gave you good minutes no matter how few or many.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I disagree, we just have a bench players who aren't being used properly. As a unit the bench isn't very exciting because it isn't a balanced bench without Hill, especially with Hasnbrough struggling to score.
    How should the bench players be used?

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    How should the bench players be used?
    I too would like to see more of the bench rotated in throughout the game instead of playing two separate units....

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by ejwallace View Post
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    I too would like to see more of the bench rotated in throughout the game instead of playing two separate units....
    This.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Your using Marrow, Sessions, Farmar, Ridnour, and Gibson for your argument? Hill is better than all of those players you just mentioned. You could even argue that he's better/more well rounded than reddick, williams and Harris as well. I don't necessarily think he deserves 7-8 million, but I think he's better than most of the players you just named. Just my opinion
    I'm not using them as an argument at the time, however, those name drops was drops off the top of my head...go check the rest of the league as I posted and you'll see.

    Hill's play and numbers beg to differ. They don't lie. Very inconsistent player and the Spurs knew this or they would have kept him. And don't say they got rid of him cause they couldn't afford his new contract as many around here have said. He is still cheap this year and he could have been dealt this summer by the Spurs, but they didn't want him. Also, their cap is fine this summer to have resigned him as Duncan 21mil is off the books. You should go back to last year on him and see how bad he was. Also, he laid an egg in the playoffs against Memphis. Guess you didn't watch that series?

    Hill is a tweener that doesn't have court vision and is to short for alot of 2 Guards. He averages 9.3 ppg, 1.6 apg, 2.8 rpg in 25 minutes. per 15.3

    Sessions 10 ppg, 5.7apg, 3.2rpg in 28 minutes. per 15.5
    Morrow 13.7 ppg 1 apg 2.8 rpg in 29 minutes. per of 14.52, & one of the best 3p shooters in the league.
    Farmar 11 ppg, 3.6apg, 1.7rpg in 22 minutes with a per of 19.07 way over average and better then anyone on the Pacers.

    Now to say those guys aren't in the same category is wrong.

    I would rather have Morrow and Farmar off the bench for 8mil then Hill for 7.5mil as reported he wants.

    And I'd love to have Sessions, dude as skillz!

    With this said, I like Hill a lot, I just think he should have taken the offer that LB gave him. It was more then I feel he is worth.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 02-13-2012 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Our problem is that we really aren't that deep when Foster and George Hill are out...and Tyler isn't playing well. Pendergraph might add some athleticism, but he's planted on the bench.

    So...I'd be fine with separate rotations like we did in the 90's because it can be very successful. But as it stands, we cannot count on our bench much. Paul George is now a starter and quite frankly our bench with the injuries is actually a weakness.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Our problem is that we really aren't that deep when Foster and George Hill are out...and Tyler isn't playing well. Pendergraph might add some athleticism, but he's planted on the bench.

    So...I'd be fine with separate rotations like we did in the 90's because it can be very successful. But as it stands, we cannot count on our bench much. Paul George is now a starter and quite frankly our bench with the injuries is actually a weakness.


    Every time I hear "Pendergraph" and "athleticism" I remember his vicious missed dunk that first game. Poor guy.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Has Tyler let you down at all this year? I've found him mostly underwhelming.

    He's starting to remind me of Croshere in that Cro was a guy who seemed to give you more when you played him big minutes, yet less when you limited his minutes (of course I mean that beyond the obvious of less minutes meaning less opportunities). This is opposed to a guy like Jeff who gave you good minutes no matter how few or many.

    I think he's been fine, and if he were playing or had to play 35 minutes a game I think he would be a lot better. He needs to get into a rhythm, he needs to get a feel for the game. He's not like Jeff. But Tyler does bring the effort, intensity and attitude whether he plays 2 minutes or 40.

    The problem for Tyler is that David West is just better, and Roy has been playing well, so Tyler's minutes are not what they were in the second half of the season last year. Also Jeff and Tyler as a combo are much better than Lou and Tyler. Jeff helps Tyler, not too sure why, but those two are really good together. Jeff and Tyler complement each other where as Lou and Tyler seem to compete against each other (not on purpose, but just with their style of play)

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Hill is a tweener that doesn't have court vision and is to short for alot of 2 Guards. He averages 9.3 ppg, 1.6 apg, 2.8 rpg in 25 minutes. per 15.3

    Sessions 10 ppg, 5.7apg, 3.2rpg in 28 minutes. per 15.5
    Morrow 13.7 ppg 1 apg 2.8 rpg in 29 minutes. per of 14.52, & one of the best 3p shooters in the league.
    Farmar 11 ppg, 3.6apg, 1.7rpg in 22 minutes with a per of 19.07 way over average and better then anyone on the Pacers.

    Now to say those guys aren't in the same category is wrong.

    I would rather have Morrow and Farmar off the bench for 8mil then Hill for 7.5mil as reported he wants.

    And I'd love to have Sessions, dude as skillz!

    With this said, I like Hill a lot, I just think he should have taken the offer that LB gave him. It was more then I feel he is worth.
    I'd like to have Sessions as well. He has bounced around a couple losing teams now. I think he could be had for a 2nd round pick and Lance. That would be real depth off the bench.
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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Has Tyler let you down at all this year? I've found him mostly underwhelming.

    He's starting to remind me of Croshere in that Cro was a guy who seemed to give you more when you played him big minutes, yet less when you limited his minutes (of course I mean that beyond the obvious of less minutes meaning less opportunities). This is opposed to a guy like Jeff who gave you good minutes no matter how few or many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think he's been fine, and if he were playing or had to play 35 minutes a game I think he would be a lot better. He needs to get into a rhythm, he needs to get a feel for the game. He's not like Jeff. But Tyler does bring the effort, intensity and attitude whether he plays 2 minutes or 40.

    The problem for Tyler is that David West is just better, and Roy has been playing well, so Tyler's minutes are not what they were in the second half of the season last year. Also Jeff and Tyler as a combo are much better than Lou and Tyler. Jeff helps Tyler, not too sure why, but those two are really good together. Jeff and Tyler complement each other where as Lou and Tyler seem to compete against each other (not on purpose, but just with their style of play)
    I think Tyler is just a one trick pony. When he is hitting that mid range jumper his entire game opens up, become a more engaged defender. When he isn't he shrinks down to the worst player on the floor. Becomes a terrible defender, wont' rebound, wont' box out. Its amazing to see how bad he gets when he can't contribute on the score board.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I think Tyler is just a one trick pony. When he is hitting that mid range jumper his entire game opens up, become a more engaged defender. When he isn't he shrinks down to the worst player on the floor. Becomes a terrible defender, wont' rebound, wont' box out. Its amazing to see how bad he gets when he can't contribute on the score board.

    So you don't give him anything for playing hard, being physical, playing smash mouth basketball. That means nothing - his one trick is his mid range shot?

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So you don't give him anything for playing hard, being physical, playing smash mouth basketball. That means nothing - his one trick is his mid range shot?
    What i am saying is that when he isn't hitting that shot he isn't even smash mouth.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Has Tyler let you down at all this year? I've found him mostly underwhelming.

    He's starting to remind me of Croshere in that Cro was a guy who seemed to give you more when you played him big minutes, yet less when you limited his minutes (of course I mean that beyond the obvious of less minutes meaning less opportunities). This is opposed to a guy like Jeff who gave you good minutes no matter how few or many.
    Yeah, I'd agree that he's been underwhelming.

    I mean, he's putting up 8 shots/game, and shooting 39%. That's tough.

    As of late he's been playing better though, seems like the eye injury messed him up a bit.

    But, like has been said before, he's had games where he oddly seemed out of it, not playing solid d etc...those games have seemed to start disappearing though, so maybe he's just a slow starter. He seems to have gone away from wildly driving into the lane and getting those shots/fouls up, something that made him invaluable last season. It's like someone tried to tweak his game and teach him how to pass or something, it's all thrown off. When he's being aggressive with the ball and going to the rim, he's contributing. Whether he scores or not, IMO.

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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    I mean, he's putting up 8 shots/game, and shooting 39%. That's tough.

    As of late he's been playing better though, seems like the eye injury messed him up a bit.
    I've actually thought Tyler has played better recently. He's not taking as many bad shots. He's made quite a few good passes.

    But I'm not sure I understand the eye injury excuse that gets thrown around so regularly.

    He's been shooting at basically the same clip all season. Up to and including the Philly game he was 37 of 94 which is 39%. Since that game, he's hit 46 of 119. 39%.

    His free throw shooting as actually improved slightly since the shot to eye. 78% before, 82% after.

    I could be wrong but whatever is going on with Tyler wouldn't appear to be related to the hit to his eye in any way.
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    Default Re: How much do the Pacers miss George Hill?

    so we're just gonna act like Hill doesnt suck in half his games

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