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Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

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  • #16
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    Honestly our team is not built that way. We are not a high octane offensive machine, we are a grind it out beat you down defensive unit. At least we used to be, now our offense seems a little smoother but our defense seems to have collapsed.
    This is what Sam Mitchell said in the NBATV Post Game segment. The Pacers were doing great going into the 2nd half with a 6 point lead....but they were playing the Nuggets game.......continuing...as you say...to run a high-octane offense that they are not accustomed to....but something that the Nuggets are totally capable of doing. In the end, the Nuggets won the game on their terms, simply outran and outgunned the Pacers.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    • #17
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

      Originally posted by Strummer View Post
      But it looked like we either didn't know how to do that or weren't able to. We tried to have a shoot out with the highest scoring team in the league and we lost.

      But I can live with that. We're a young team. Apparently controlling the tempo isn't something we know how to do. So the coaches have some work to do.

      But at no time did I think we looked awful tonight. And without a few key turnovers there would be banana's dancing about our high powered offense.
      This is not something that I would live with.

      The Nuggets are not only the top scoring Team in the League, they are the 2nd best shooting Team in the League.

      Guess what? the Pacers are a "middle of the road" scoring Team while being the 25th worst shooting Teams in the League.

      The Pacers tried to do something that they are not good at....outgun a Team that's way better at scoring than we are.

      As Peck said.....we didn't play our game...we played their game....which was one of the worst things that we could have done.
      Last edited by CableKC; 02-12-2012, 02:03 PM.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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      • #18
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

        Roy looks tired, I agree, did you see him run up and down the court to be ignored 8 times in a row on every break he was there, heck they would have had to reanimate me after the second! (ok the 1st but who really cares)

        Roy get's position, he just don't get the ball.
        West is taking time off on defense since he can move lateral on offense, no two ways about it.

        Hansbrough is too busy moaning to the refs and trying to get the ball out of anyone's hand that he has no clue how to run a fast break and jumps on top of his teammates for a rebound when there are only Pacers contending it.

        The look in Lance's eyes has me worried more then anything, his reactions and his actions makes me fear there is something fundamentally wrong with him, which has nothing to do with his basketball skills. but if you look at his reaction on Granger hitting the 3 with under 1 minute to bring us within 3, and no not the howling, but the look in his eyes after that, shiver.

        Our strength is our size, which lends itself for half-court setups, not running with the devil, all you do is wear out West and Hibbert in those windsprints, fighting big man for position is taking enough out of anyone to not have to add that running around to it.

        Stop the JOB ball, please!

        P.S. I am not worried, we are at BEST a top 4 seed but at least one year away from being a contender so I don't judge the team on that, 38 wins is fine for me, anything more is icing on the cake, homecourt in the playoffs yes please, but I am not seeing us in the finals yet.

        They wanted it more? you bet your arse, they just lost 5 in a row! they better want it more!
        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

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        • #19
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

          Originally posted by Jon Theodore View Post

          Lance needs 25 minutes a game, every single night...rain or shine. This guys passing continues to amaze me, the pass to D. Jones got quite a few people excited. His breakaway dunk was so nice to see...it was one of those plays that got his confidence going, which ended up leading to a great night for him.
          D. Jones thought it was nice too. You could tell by the look on his face after the layup.

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          • #20
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

            Originally posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
            I disagree. Vogel has already asked the team to run more. One of the players mentioned it in a post game last week, I can't remember who. But I could definitely see the change in focus over the past week. We are focusing on running more (not our strength) and as a consequence our focus on tough d and physical play (which is our strength) has gone down. This is why were losing. Bring back the smashmouth!
            To me it looks like half-court perimeter play, which is the exact opposite approach we should have. I don't see running, I just see a whole lot of passing around the perimeter with some PnR's and high post ********. We almost always run the clock down, but it ends up being a terrible shot because neither West nor especially Roy receive the ball enough anymore.

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            • #21
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

              Originally posted by BringJackBack View Post
              To me it looks like half-court perimeter play, which is the exact opposite approach we should have. I don't see running, I just see a whole lot of passing around the perimeter with some PnR's and high post ********. We almost always run the clock down, but it ends up being a terrible shot because neither West nor especially Roy receive the ball enough anymore.
              I think that they receive the ball regularly. Unfortunately, I don't see them receiving the ball early enough in good position. It seems to me if we are going to play a half-court game then they need to establish good position in the low post earlier in the shot clock and then be fortunate enough to actually receive a decent entry pass from which they can "do something".

              Once the clock is down to 5-6 seconds, unless the entry pass is going to lead to lead directly to a favorable shot attempt, the entry pass may as well not be made to Roy. I say that because Roy will usually spend 3-4 seconds jockeying to get up his shot.

              I think both Roy and West would be shooting at a higher percentage if the entry pass were made earlier. That way, they have the option of passing out rather than being forced to put up the shot. And quite frankly, late in the shot clock, I would rather see one of our perimeter players put up a perimeter 3 against lighter coverage than see Roy or DWest being forced to put up a shot against a double-team/heavy coverage.

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              • #22
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                This is not something that I would live with.

                The Nuggets are not only the top scoring Team in the League, they are the 2nd best shooting Team in the League.

                Guess what? the Pacers are a "middle of the road" scoring Team while being the 25th worst shooting Teams in the League.

                The Pacers tried to do something that they are not good at....outgun a Team that's way better at scoring than we are.

                As Peck said.....we didn't play our game...we played their game....which was one of the worst things that we could have done.
                It's a learning experience. We're a young team that's going to make mistakes and have set backs. That shouldn't surprise anyone but the most casual fans.

                The early season success seems to have made everyone forget that we're still developing. We got hot early so now we have to win every game or it's the end of the world? That's silly.

                We all agree that the Pacers played the Nuggets game. And hopefully they learned from that. But why is it so awful for the Pacers to make that mistake? How do they learn without making that mistake? Better coaching? I think the young coaching staff is doing a great job. More practice? No time for that this year.

                I've enjoyed watching the Pacers for nearly 40 years. When they were a veteran team I enjoyed watching them play the same game night after night. They knew their strengths and weaknesses and what worked and what didn't.

                Now they're a young team. They don't have a history of winning. They're still feeling each other out. And guess what, it's gonna be that way for the rest of the season. But I can enjoy watching that process. I can enjoy watching them learn and develop. That's what you get with a young team.

                And we've got a young coaching staff. They didn't seem to know how to rein the players in last night. And since we had a nice lead early, they probably felt like they shouldn't. But that's ok, as long as they figure it out for next time. That's part of the process for them too.

                You can't live with this? Wow. Sucks to be you.

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                • #23
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                  Originally posted by able View Post


                  The look in Lance's eyes has me worried more then anything, his reactions and his actions makes me fear there is something fundamentally wrong with him, which has nothing to do with his basketball skills. but if you look at his reaction on Granger hitting the 3 with under 1 minute to bring us within 3, and no not the howling, but the look in his eyes after that, shiver.


                  GIFSoup

                  ... I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself, but this sounds like a ridiculous conclusion to come to from watching the TV from your couch.
                  Last edited by CJ Jones; 02-12-2012, 08:46 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                    So, slow it down, play within yourselves, don't press too hard due to rising expectations, let the game come to you, trust each other on both ends of the court, allow the chemistry of the team to develop.

                    Young teams experience this. Good young teams overcome this in the long run to become great young teams (Thunder).

                    Here's hoping that the Pacers become a great young team!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                      Originally posted by able View Post
                      The look in Lance's eyes has me worried more then anything, his reactions and his actions makes me fear there is something fundamentally wrong with him, which has nothing to do with his basketball skills. but if you look at his reaction on Granger hitting the 3 with under 1 minute to bring us within 3, and no not the howling, but the look in his eyes after that, shiver.


                      I saw that too! It was like Berserker rage!



                      Wait, are you serious?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                        It's really easy to get sucked into Denver's style of play. Especially for a young team.

                        Ty Lawson, looks ridiculously strong. Like I swear his body mass is the same as AJ and DC's put together. I didn't notice how short he was because of how strong he looked.

                        That being said, the defense surrounding him was terrible. DC's improved defensively, but he's not good. AJ's been really really good defensively this entire year, but even he struggled to keep Lawson in front of him.

                        That said, the biggest problem, as always, came on the PnR. Our bigs, other than Foster, are just awful with it. Roy's just too slow and Amundson doesn't know what to do with himself. Tyler hedges off the PG well, but doesn't recover to his man quick enough, and West recovers to his man, but flat out gets in our PG's way (or Paul George's). Really really bad.

                        AJ, if we're going to throw out a lineup of Tyler, Lou/Foster, Lance, and Dahntay, he's going to have to shoot. I know everyone has their ideal of what they want the point guard to do, but you have to look at the reality of the situation. There's no perimeter offense, unless a streaky (at best) AJ gets it going.

                        I know spacing the court has become a bad word here. But it is needed. We threw the ball to Tyler, 4 people were covering Tyler...and Dahntay's guy was hedging between staying on Dahntay and heading towards Tyler.

                        Dahntay, although improved shooting wise, would prefer to drive to the basket, as would Lance. Lou/Foster simply aren't going to score from the perimeter. If AJ's taking and making his open shots (which he's getting, because the team's defense is entirely focused on Tyler) the offense becomes much smoother. AJ was able to make two really nice passes (Tyler was able to get an +1 on one, and I think he got fouled on another) to Tyler because he (AJ) had proven that he was worth guarding. (So, he needs to keep proving it)

                        I think AJ is most likely to succeed in a situation where he isn't forced to look for his shot (Like when Hill was on the floor) and he can simply run the offense and pick his opportunities. The reality is, he isn't in that situation. And asking Lance to supply the perimeter offense is just plain unfair.

                        Now onto Lance. I'm still not impressed with his game. He's not so much a combo guard as he is a "nopo" He doesn't have a position. He's incapable of running an offense for a variety of reasons (which we've been through) and struggles (although has improved) at moving without the ball, he hasn't proven he can shoot. And really, needs to be in transition to do anything positive.

                        That being said, he is quite good in a transition game. And something I hadn't expected was the amount of positive energy and effort he brings to games. He's not a good defender, but if the rest of the team put in the amount of effort on the defensive end that Lance puts in we'd be one heck of a defensive team, and the result of his effort is usually one or two good defensive stops. I like seeing effort out of players, it's why..despite his shortcomings, I adore Tyler. But at the end of the day, the bench rotation needs to be AJ/Hill/Dahntay/Tyler/Jeff (hopefully). We can't afford to not play a point guard and Hill is easily the better shooting guard. Lance needs to develop in a position before he's ready for playoffs and the like. Short memories have forgotten the struggles the bench was having before GH's injury, we were going to lose these games anyway because when the Pacers won, it's pretty much always been the starters.

                        Roy, is obviously struggling right now. I don't believe Vogel has changed the offense. Sure, he wants to run a bit when possible, but that's just adding another weapon to our team. We should be running when possible. That doesn't change the fact that Roy's struggling in the half court.

                        I'm not too worried though. Vogel's in tune with the players. Most likely, he'll make it a point to get the ball to Roy. And he's good at building their confidence up, which is usually what Roy needs. I do think Roy still needs to toughen up, physically and mentally.

                        That said, every single one of our players has gone through an up and down patch this season. This is Roy's first. Guy's go in funks, and guys pop out of them. He'll be okay, he's just got to play through it.

                        Danny, it's nice to see Danny has his shot back, but for some reason his defense went with it. How many times is someone going to go backdoor on him? I'd rather him focusing his energy on defense.

                        PG has been in a funk right with Roy. But it's a long season, he's very young, and he's shown a lot of improvement this season. He'll be fine.

                        DC, I think he's done quite well this season. But he struggled last night. Lawson is a really tough matchup for him. DC's not a good defender, and Lawson is significantly stronger - and might be just as fast. Then Ty started making jump shots and it was all over.

                        and then when we'd switch PG onto Ty, and DC onto Andre...Andre would post him up. Rough game. He's been very good this season as well, and is allowed to struggle. In fact, considering how many minutes he's had to play the entire season, I'm surprised he's not struggling more.

                        Kobe Jones. He's turned himself into a valuable role player off the bench. Although sometimes the bench unit could use him going all Kobe on the other team, I like the more subdued version. You can just tell he's an excellent teammate.

                        West, like Danny his offense has been great, but his defense..not so much. And he's a vet, who has played on a good team, he should know better. I tend to give him leeway on certain things, because, as I've repeated, people coming off of knee injuries go through their ups and downs. But I've felt like there's an effort problem on the defense and rebounding side of things, which wasn't there earlier in the season. Maybe he's just worn out (I don't really buy that because of his offense.) But effort matters to me. I can forgive Lance, DC and Tyler for their defensive mishaps because I know the effort is there. They're just usually lost or physically unable to defend well for whatever reason. Lack of effort bothers me.

                        Lou...oh Lou. Vogel was cracking me up when he didn't care that Lou kept fouling.

                        Now onto Frank. I adore Frank, and I think he's done a wonderful job, but he's hit a snug here. I understand the reason for some of the things he's doing. (IE: instead of staggering the bench in with the starters, he's playing each as a unit. I can see not wanting to mess with the starters chemistry) But he needs to get better with the timeouts. And I do think he needs to consider subbing when things go south. (Like he did last night, when he inserted AJ and Dahntay in for DC and PG.) Although, that's still debatable and I understand his reasoning for not doing so.

                        At the end of the day, we've lost these three games because of defense, rebounding and turnovers. Easily fixable, but suggests a lack of mental focus more than anything.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                          That entry pass by AJ to Tyler was great and is something we have not seen much of this year. Our guys are terrible at feeding the post and probably receiving the ball when the big is being fronted. Seeing how so much of our offense is based on post play. They really need to figure that out.

                          Paul George is the worst. He makes terrible entry passes.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                            Danny Granger: C Could have been much higher, but 5 turnovers and only 2 rebounds tends to drag your grade down when the team loses. Cory Brewer also looked like Bernard King for awhile tonight and while I don’t say Danny played horrid defense like some will, I won’t say he played good defense either. As he walked off of the court tonight he threw his towel hard into his seat and he looked very mad. I’m not sure about what either, and then I read that he refused to talk to the media. Don’t know what happened there.

                            Danny had a great first half, but he didn't carry it over to the second half. Ever since I started to watch Granger play, I came to the conclusion that Danny feeds off momentum. I personally think he sat on the bench way too long and it took all his momentum away.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                              Originally posted by Jon Theodore View Post
                              Interesting game to say the least, I had the best seats I've ever had. I was in section 5, 1st row behind the broadcasters rocking the Roy Hibbert All Star jersey. It was a very interesting experience being so close, hearing the players communicate, etc.
                              Dude I saw you from the section above! I was saying to myself this guy must be a fan, already rocking Hibbert's all star jersey only a few days after it was announced.

                              This was the first game that I went to this season and I honestly thought we were going to win after PG sunk the two 3s and DC and West had the and-1's.. Kinda disappointed but still had fun. Saw Brook Ozendam (spelling?) before the pregame show and asked if I could take a pic with her and she was really nice. She looks hotter and thinner in person, but also seemed tired for some reason. Saw Croshere up close for the first time and thought to myself these NBA players are so freakin tall! I think I also saw Peck, Roaming Gnome and a few others talking near the front entrance as I was passing by after the game ended. Anyway had a great time too bad we lost and dreading the heat right now...

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                              • #30
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Battered by Gold Dust

                                Originally posted by PacersRule View Post
                                Dude I saw you from the section above! I was saying to myself this guy must be a fan, already rocking Hibbert's all star jersey only a few days after it was announced.

                                Hah, I DVR'ed the game and I was on TV quite a bit. My girlfriend was wearing a Hansbrough jersey sitting next to me. There was a funny moment when they were reviewing Hibberts "save" from out of bounds near the end of the game, you can see me standing, harrasing the refs and my girl trying to pull me down. I just couldn't resist the urge to scream "Somebody throw a beer." Quite a few people around me found it funny, my girlfriend not so much. What can I say? I live in Tennessee so when I come to a game, I am getting my moneys worth.

                                Also, before the game started I was standing and Roy did a double take when he saw my Jersey...it was before Bird presented it with him on the floor. It seemed as if Roy hadn't even seen the jersey yet.
                                *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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