Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44

Thread: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

  1. #1
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    We all know we need a fresh injection of offense, particularly in the second unit.

    Can we pick up a pass first point guard to change things around and let Collison be the offensive surge with the subs? Probably not before this summer.

    Can we find a Vinnie Johnson microwave pickup at the 2 spot before the deadline? Probably not.

    Well, I would like to try an experiment at least once to see if the help we need is staring right in front of us.

    I'd like to see one game where Lance is allowed to shoot 15 times. Put it in his hands, let him drive, pass, or shoot. Let's see what happens.

    I know, it's likely he's not ready yet, much less born that way. But I happen to think there is, say, a 20 percent chance that, given the reigns and the freedom to make some mistakes (like miss a few shots and make a few turnovers), that the overall outcome could be really great.

    I'm not saying give him the reigns to the team for a while. I'm saying give him the reigns to the second unit FOR ONE GAME. Let's see what happens.

    If it fails, I'm good. Curiosity satisfied. Possible fallout: one loss.

    But with as much as we've invested in Lance so far, I think it's worth the experiment.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    One game? It depends. Is this about Lance driving and dishing? Would it hurt or help the team concept?

    Personally, I would like to see Lance start with the first unit and be able to dish to guys who can convert. We are loaded in the starting unit with offensive talent. We just don't have a guy who can see the floor and has the size to deliver the ball.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One game? It depends. Is this about Lance driving and dishing? Would it hurt or help the team concept?

    Personally, I would like to see Lance start with the first unit and be able to dish to guys who can convert. We are loaded in the starting unit with offensive talent. We just don't have a guy who can see the floor and has the size to deliver the ball.
    Yes, it's about driving and dishing.

    I don't think it hurts the team concept. I think it would potentially help. I have reason to believe from what I've seen that Lance is more interesting in good passes and team ball than getting his own shot off. But he needs the freedom to shoot and get the defense's respect in order to do so.

    If Lance is loosening things up and getting guys the ball where they need it, it is the opposite of watching the shot clock wind down to 8 or 7 while we pass it around the perimeter, then someone throws up something quick. It is arguable that Lance with the ball in his hands would improve the team concept, not hurt it.

    In regards to trying him in the first unit, I think that is too political. Just the real world. Now, if he turns out to be successful doing it in the second unit, you might later consider trying him in the first unit, but that would take some time.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  7. #4

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    If this experiment was to happen, the Pacers play Charlotte, NOLA, and Charlotte in a row this month. If it works in the 1st Charlotte game, then there are 2 other games to continue the experiment. Both teams, Charlotte 3 wins and NOLA 4 wins, I wouldn't believe should cause a problem with trying the experiment.

    AT THIS POINt, I'M ALMOST WILLING TO SEE ANYTHING TRIED TO KEEP PRICE OFF THE COURT!!!!

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Justin Tyme For This Useful Post:


  9. #5

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    People that want to write him off or pigeon hole him into a certain position seem to forget he's the same age as Paul, but getting less than 25% of the minutes Paul gets. Naturally, It's gonna take him a lot longer to develop getting less than 10 minutes a game to work with. The man needs more time on the court if we ever want to truly evaluate his game.

    I'd love to see Lance get a chance with the starters. The height alone would be intimidating. When's the last time a team had that big of a starting 5?

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to CJ Jones For This Useful Post:


  11. #6
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Lance isn't ready. He needs to establish himself as a consistent bench player before anything else.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Yep I agree with Hicks I don't think he is ready, maybe next year but right now he is not ready. Not to say that I wouldn't mind him been the first PG off the bench.

  14. #8
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    515
    Mood

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    We already have a much more consistent backup point guard.

    A.J. Price is shooting 23% from the field and 19% from the 3 point line while averaging 4.5 assists per 36 minutes.

    Jeremy Lin wasn't ready either!
    Last edited by Larry Staverman; 02-11-2012 at 12:30 PM.

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Larry Staverman For This Useful Post:


  16. #9

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Lance is clearly not playing his game right now via instruction. He's not ready to play a team game but he's ready to play his game.

    I don't see how our bench could be much worse offensively. We're not scoring because we have 2-3 defensive guys, 1 guy who's not a one-on-one player (Tyler) running isos almost exclusively now, and 1 guy who is a playmaker (Lance) trying to facilitate the isos.

    If he's our best passer, then let's see him with the ball in his hands. That's what I'd like to see, but I'm OK with Lance learning to facilitate and not play his game as long as we're winning.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to imawhat For This Useful Post:


  18. #10
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance isn't ready. He needs to establish himself as a consistent bench player before anything else.
    Like I said, 20 percent chance. I think your comment has an 80 percent chance of being right.

    The thing is, he HAS established himself as a somewhat consistent player who stands in the corner on offense. But we all know that's not his game. Why wait until next year to find out if he's a mutherload when given major minutes with the ball in his hands?

    Again, all I'm asking for is a one game test.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  20. #11

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance isn't ready. He needs to establish himself as a consistent bench player before anything else.
    Yes, yes. He's not ready. You've determined this by watching him play 9.7 minutes per game, during which he's instructed to get out of the way and stand on the wing while our great, slashing, "best bench in the NBA" combo of Hansbrough, Amundson and Foster strike fear into the opposing defense with their array of ISOs and embarrassing jump shots.

    Surely he should be doing something to earn your favor in such limited playtime. Like a triple double, perhaps. Meanwhile, Darren "0 assists is more likely than double digit assists" Collison* gets the longest leash ever, right?

    I mean, I'm not surprised. Two weeks ago people here were saying AJ Price needed more PT because he was almost serviceable for a few games in the playoffs.

    Fact is, we have nothing to lose by letting Lance get more burn before George Hill returns. It worked for the Knicks, and Lance is more physically gifted than JLin. I'm not sure what it is exactly that people have against Stephenson, but I wish they would come right out and say it, instead of making vague suggestions that the tiny sample size is enough to make any kind of negative judgement of his current capability...especially on a team where up til a week ago the coach wasn't even running more than 2 plays for the team's best overall player.

    * I actually like DC. But any delusions that he's anything more than mediocre are just that: delusions. He's a poor passer, capable of being a 16 and 5 type guy in a system that required a shoot-first point guard. Unfortunately, he's in a system that is begging, pleading for a pure passer. There's no reason this starting 5 should be 18th in the league in scoring. And it wouldn't be, with a decent passer. They brought in his biggest weapon (West) from the one time in his career he was productive and he's still not doing any better on the offensive end. In fact, statistically (aka factually) he's regressed this year. Passing/vision isn't something you learn at the NBA level. You can improve on it, but either you've got the ability or you don't. And he really doesn't.

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 3rdStrike For This Useful Post:


  22. #12
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,580

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    I would just be happy if we allow Lance to be on the floor with Paul George instead of subbing him in for Paul George. I think Lance should come in for colliosn and the only problem anybody ever had with Dahntay was him being a black hole and that has gone away for the most part so i'd be fine with Dahntay coming in for Danny otherwise I think the PF - C rotation is pretty much where it needs to be.

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TheDon For This Useful Post:


  24. #13
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, yes. He's not ready. You've determined this by watching him play 9.7 minutes per game,

    ...

    Surely he should be doing something to earn your favor in such limited playtime. Like a triple double, perhaps.
    This is condescending, and you are projecting opinions onto me that may not necessarily reflect how I feel about Lance or what I'm looking to see out of him to determine if I think he's ready for something more.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  26. #14
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,133

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    I'd like to see this happen against Charlotte.

    About passing/vision/running an offense now. You can learn to pass. You can learn to run an offense. There's not a single reason that an NBA PG cannot run a pick and roll. Everyone in Europe does it. The only thing that you cannot learn is court vision. That's innate, I'll agree. But the other two qualities are not innate.

    PS: And I blame college and high school coaches who morhp most of their PGs into Scoring PGs. We need some pass first PGs, guys.

    PS II: Frankly, I don't believe that the Pacers need a pass first PG right now. It's not how our offense is run at the moment.

  27. #15
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,386

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes, it's about driving and dishing.

    I don't think it hurts the team concept. I think it would potentially help. I have reason to believe from what I've seen that Lance is more interesting in good passes and team ball than getting his own shot off. But he needs the freedom to shoot and get the defense's respect in order to do so.

    If Lance is loosening things up and getting guys the ball where they need it, it is the opposite of watching the shot clock wind down to 8 or 7 while we pass it around the perimeter, then someone throws up something quick. It is arguable that Lance with the ball in his hands would improve the team concept, not hurt it.

    In regards to trying him in the first unit, I think that is too political. Just the real world. Now, if he turns out to be successful doing it in the second unit, you might later consider trying him in the first unit, but that would take some time.
    I agree with this post. At the same time, his chances of making a spectacular showing are better with the starting unit. He just has so many other weapons to leverage. Also, I think he's more likely to play within the team concept in terms of passing with the starters and he has more respect for the opposition.

    But I agree we should give him significant burn for not just one but a couple games. All at the PG position. JMHO.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  29. #16
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    All I'd really like to see different with Lance from a coaching standpoint is to put him back at the backup 1 instead of the backup 2. I know it's like with Tyler where they're taking both out of their comfort zones to try to grow their games in new ways (Tyler's passing, Lance playing off ball), but right now I'd like to see Lance back doing what he knows how to do because we do need a boost right now.

    The problem is I don't think that's going to happen until George Hill returns because he was our backup 2. Actually with both it was kind of switching back and forth almost play by play; sometimes Hill would handle the ball, sometimes Lance would handle it.

    But since AJ had to come back, he's obviously a 1, so now he's almost always handling the ball, leaving Lance almost exclusively off ball.

    I think in the future Lance will be okay off ball, but I think we all agree that he'll always be his strongest with the ball in his hands, so I can understand where McKey is coming from here.

    I just think putting him in the starting lineup is too radical of a step to take; Lance, even at the 1, is still pretty rough (particularly anything that isn't a pass), and defenses could exploit his shoddy shooting/scoring until he figures that out.

    Sure, you could be patient and let him figure it out game by game, but that's, to me, something you do when you're a .500 team or a losing team, not a team that's competing for the 3rd seed in the conference. We just need these guys to pull their heads back out of their asses, and when they do that the wins will come again. I don't think we'll continue to be this bad defensively, and I think Roy will give us more of what we need more often than not.

    The only thing bothering me lately, and last night you could see why I feel this way, is that we don't use David West's offensive abilities enough. He's trying so hard to keep the ball moving, which is very admirable, that he's not giving us enough with regards to his own scoring ability. He's a new, big weapon for this team in that regard, and we ought to wield that more often than we do. He could easily average in the low 20's per game if we made a concentrated effort to get him the ball more often (in areas where it's not pass-first, score second); the dude's pretty damned good at it.

  30. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  31. #17
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    What we need is George Hill to be healthy. We haven't had a consistent stretch of Hill healthy and Danny shooting well.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to rexnom For This Useful Post:


  33. #18
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sure, you could be patient and let him figure it out game by game, but that's, to me, something you do when you're a .500 team or a losing team, not a team that's competing for the 3rd seed in the conference.
    Good post.

    Regarding the part above, I might counter (not sure if I'm right or not) that if we were .500 I would be less likely to take the risk. Playoffs would be at stake. However, it looks like we're simply dealing with seeding right now, and it clearly looks to me that we will have difficulty getting out of the first round without a new acquisition before the deadline. So if that doesn't happen, why not take a flyer on Lance?

    If my 20 percent theory is true, it just might be the extra lift we need to advance in the playoffs.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  34. #19

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Yeah, I say you try to develop when winning. It's not affecting us negatively when we're winking, which is a win win.

    I tell you what else...it looks like it's starting to work with Tyler. He's starting to make passes I haven't seen since his rookie season.

    There's probably more to it than we're seeing. They may be teaching Lance how to earn his minutes, knowing that he'll break out.

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to imawhat For This Useful Post:


  36. #20

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    The problem is I don't think that's going to happen until George Hill returns because he was our backup 2. Actually with both it was kind of switching back and forth almost play by play; sometimes Hill would handle the ball, sometimes Lance would handle it.
    Thanks for noticing. Hard to understand why some people are still standing firm to their stance that Lance hasn't played PG this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Good post.

    Regarding the part above, I might counter (not sure if I'm right or not) that if we were .500 I would be less likely to take the risk. Playoffs would be at stake. However, it looks like we're simply dealing with seeding right now, and it clearly looks to me that we will have difficulty getting out of the first round without a new acquisition before the deadline. So if that doesn't happen, why not take a flyer on Lance?

    If my 20 percent theory is true, it just might be the extra lift we need to advance in the playoffs.
    If this is the team on the floor for the rest of the year I think it's worth the gamble. What do we have to lose a championship? Even if it wasn't pretty at first it'd speed up his development so that next year he'll be more prepared.

  37. #21
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    I'd like to see Lance sub for Collison.... or if AJ comes in for Collison then let Lance sit longer and Lance come in for AJ. Have Lance coming in when some of the starters return to the game.

    I like the idea of Lance having a starter or two around him when he comes in...

    I think if Lance is to be a future 1 then he should get his time at the 1 with some threats around him. Then let him drive and dish and see what he's got.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  38. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  39. #22
    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chicago, but Brooklyn/Naptown Raised!!
    Posts
    7,614

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Man, you know were really in bad shape if were worrying about Lance. I think Hicks is right that Lance isnt ready, but so are the others when they say Lance needs some time. Bottom line is were regressing as a team. WE had a nice run when were went 4-0 with the win in Dallas, but since then we haven't looked as good. We bearly beat Utah, and looked bad in loses to Boston, Orlando, Atlanta, and Memphis

    DC just is not getting it done. His "good game" is when he hits a high percentage of his shots, and limits his turnovers. I still dont know why he averaged so many assits in NO, then he struggles here.

    Back to Lance, He would do well with the starters because he would have more weapons, and be able to play with the ball in his hands. Problem is, I can't see any way Vogel would do this, it just wont happen. Lance would have good moments and bad moments, but at times on the court everything moves too fast for him. His talents right now are more towards that open floor, up and down game where he would dominate inferior compettion. He needs to get game minutews to get better, but it cant be at the expense of the team.

    What I would like to see is a starting 5 of DC, Dhanty Jones. Granger, West, and Roy. Then off the bench have PG come in for DJ, Lance come in for DC, Ty come in for West, and Foster/Lou come in for Roy. I would leave Danny in with the bench , for a few minutes to stabilize the bench play , then bring DJ back in for him and slade PG to the 3.

    Another thing is when G Hill comes back he will need time to get up to NBA speed , and when he does his minutes will take away from either Lance or Dhanty.

    Lance has skills that are from athletic talent and playing the game of competitive basketball most of his life. He controlled the ball and was a high playmaker and scorer up until the NBA. What he hsan't figured out yet is how to translate his basketball IQ on a consistent basis into NBA basketball IQ. He has raw insticts on the court , as you can see by his passing and playmaking at times. Thats what gets us all excited. When he can figure out the timing of when to make certain plays, within the flow of the game he can be much more effective. I think what makes Jeremy Lin successful besides his physical talents is , he is a very smart player and man in general. The fact he is a Harvard grad would generally make you think he must be a pretty smart guy. So when you combine his talents and smarts , you see the sucess. Can only imagine if Lance had the smarts of Lin to go with his talent. Not saying Lance is not smart but I don'th think its a stretch to say Lin's proabably a smater smarter guy
    Sittin on top of the world!

  40. #23
    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Nashville, IN
    Posts
    1,631
    Mood

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance isn't ready. He needs to establish himself as a consistent bench player before anything else.
    Yeh, but I like the concept here. It would be worth giving him the reigns to the second unit, while the player ahead of him in the rotation is injured. Give him Hill's minutes and responsibilities for a game, play the game to Lance's strengths, and it might work. Is that not similar to what we said about Paul George during the JO'bie days? And now he's our incredibly talented starting shooting guard. Maybe Lance can eventually backup George Hill at the starting 2, while Paul starts at the 3.
    witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.



  41. #24
    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,636

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    I wanna see what Lance can do with time with the starters. I don't necessarily want him to start, but just see what it's like. I could envision Lance going into the lane and instead of dishing a nice pass to Lou he dishes it to Roy or D-West for a nice finish... maybe a few oops to PG too...

  42. The Following User Says Thank You to PGisthefuture For This Useful Post:


  43. #25

    Default Re: Let Lance give it a whirl just once

    When I see the Linsanity going on I get jealous. I think Lance has a similar game and if giving a chance he will show his talent. The talent that most have recognized behind the scenes.

    Remember T. Evans at the beginning of the season wasn't putting up good numbers and looked ordinary. New coach comes in and lets him play his style and he shows again why he was considered a future star.

    I'm on board with it. Defense has been this teams strength and that's where the chemistry has shown the most. I doubt that the offensive chemistry of the second unit we be ruined if Lance has the ball in his hands.

Similar Threads

  1. Lance Stephenson Showing Signs Of Progress This Summer
    By 90'sNBARocked in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 153
    Last Post: 09-10-2011, 01:43 PM
  2. Seen Lance
    By Pacerfan83 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 07-01-2011, 08:29 PM
  3. What could Lance get?
    By 90'sNBARocked in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 10-19-2010, 11:08 AM
  4. Vids from rookie photo shoot (lance included)
    By rel in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-18-2010, 08:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •