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Thread: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Can somebody provide some more details about Nash's defense? I just hear people say it's bad. Is it worse than Collison's?
    He's never been a great defender. You don't trade for him because of what he'll do for you defensively, by any means. However, you trade for him because of what he'd bring to the other 4 guys around him offensively. He'd make everybody demonstratively better.

    As bad as he may be defensively, he's still a majorly positive contributor overall. Even more positively than the commonly accepted best point guard in the league, and certainly more so than Collison.

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11PHO1.HTM

    This season he's giving up 18.4 points on 17.6 shots with a .457 eFG%, 7.6 assists, and 5.0 rebounds, for a PER of 11.3 on a per-48 minute basis, to his point guard counterparts.

    On the other end, he's scoring 21.9 points on 16.3 shots with a .580 eFG%, 15.2 assists, and 3.6 rebounds, for a PER of 21.4 on a per-48 minute basis.

    He has a net-positive PER of 10.2

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11IND1.HTM

    Collison is giving up 17.5 points on 16.1 shots with a .442 eFG%, 6.8 assists, and 4.5 rebounds, for a PER of 10.9 on a per-48 minute basis, to his point guard counterparts.

    Offensively, he is scoring 15.4 points on 13.0 shots with a .449 eFG%, 7.4 assists, and 5.0 rebounds, for a PER of 13.3 on a per-48 minute basis.

    He has a net-positive PER of 2.4

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11LAC1.HTM

    Chris Paul is giving up 19.3 points on 15.1 shots with a .496 eFG%, 9.1 assists, and 4.7 rebounds, for a PER of 17.1 on a per-48 minute basis, to his point guard coutnerparts.

    Offensively, he is scoring 22.2 points on 17.1 shots with a .528 eFG%, 11.5 assists, and 4.6 rebounds, for a PER of 23.4 on a per-48 minute basis.

    He has a net-positive PER of 6.3

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    I would think that the defense of PG, DG, and Big Roy in the middle would help make up for Nash's lack of defense. Plus when we play teams with great PG's (Bulls, Nets, etc) we normally end up putting paul on them anyway's, leaving the small DC to guard 2-guards. Either way, we have the same issue.

    But

    Our offense would immediately go from being one of the worst in the league to having the potential of being nearly potent. Think of the easier looks our scorers would have with Nash at the Point, not to mention the fact that he's a dead-eye shooter himself.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    I thought Nash was a little younger. He'll turn 39 during the 12/13 season. I'd think at this point he'd only be looking for a year to year contract. He's no different then a rental in that he certainly wouldn't be worth giving up a young prospect or a 1st.
    As much as I'd like to improve the team this year, I think if we need to be patient and not trade away any assets for a player like this. If Rondo were available that would be different due to his reasonable contract and age.
    If we just let things play out until free agency Larry has room to bring in 2 impact players or 1 max contract player. I'm fine with waiting on PG and hope he makes a major stride next season. If we brought in Kaman and Nash during the summer I think we're contending for a title next year. Deron and a less expensive backup 5 and we would be as well. Nash and Kaman are a lot more realistic. Sadly if we bring in Nash, he won't be here to see the best of Hibbert or PG, but I'd still do it.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I would think that the defense of PG, DG, and Big Roy in the middle would help make up for Nash's lack of defense. Plus when we play teams with great PG's (Bulls, Nets, etc) we normally end up putting paul on them anyway's, leaving the small DC to guard 2-guards. Either way, we have the same issue.

    But

    Our offense would immediately go from being one of the worst in the league to having the potential of being nearly potent. Think of the easier looks our scorers would have with Nash at the Point, not to mention the fact that he's a dead-eye shooter himself.
    What he said! Also Mark Jackson was no defensive presence but look at what he meant to the team in the 90s. Also Nash in 2.5 years here ( if we can get a 2 yr. extension ) will do more for the franchise than Collison will do in 10 seasons, and I am a Collison fan.
    In Indiana Basketball is not just a game...it's a way of life!

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    So what's Pheonix looking for in terms of price?
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  9. #31

    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    i don't know about this...... i wouldn't do more than DC filler and 1st (filler someone like lou or price) for nash. saying that we would have 2 years to win a title.... then after nash is done we have to look for another PG when we could still have DC growing up in the system.... i don't know...

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Steve Nash
    On the other end, he's scoring 21.9 points on 16.3 shots with a .580 eFG%, 15.2 assists, and 3.6 rebounds, for a PER of 21.4 on a per-48 minute basis.

    Chris Paul
    Offensively, he is scoring 22.2 points on 17.1 shots with a .528 eFG%, 11.5 assists, and 4.6 rebounds, for a PER of 23.4 on a per-48 minute basis.
    Something appears messed up, Mackey.

    Nash has the better offensive stat line (except for RBs), yet Paul has the better PER. Why?

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Something appears messed up, Mackey.

    Nash has the better offensive stat line (except for RBs), yet Paul has the better PER. Why?
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lida01&y3=2012

    Per-36 Steve Nash: 16.8 points, 11.4 assists, 2.9 rebounds, 0.7 steals, 4.0 turnovers = PER of 23.1

    Per-36 Chris Paul: 18.2 points, 9.1 assists, 3.4 rebounds, 2.5 steals, 2.0 turnovers = PER of 25.9

    Per-36 Darren Collison: 12.0 points, 5.7 assists, 3.8 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.1 turnovers = PER of 14.1

    I used 82games for the first comparison, because it's the only site I know of that has solid defensive stats. I generally prefer Basketball Reference because it's always more up-to-date, and I like per-36 numbers more than per-48. For instance, using BR's numbers, the PER's for all three players is a bit improved.

    The reason Paul has a better PER this season, is mostly due to the differential in steals and turnovers between them, although the slight points and rebound differentials help as well. Steals and turnovers are a pretty big component in PER calculation, but I'm not even going to bother trying to explain all that. It's pretty overly technical, but use this link if you want to try to learn for yourself.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Reference
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    The Player Efficiency Rating (PER) is a per-minute rating developed by ESPN.com columnist John Hollinger. In John's words, "The PER sums up all a player's positive accomplishments, subtracts the negative accomplishments, and returns a per-minute rating of a player's performance."
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 02-06-2012 at 12:47 PM. Reason: added Hollinger's basic explanation

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Some ESPN guy on twitter is comparing Nash numbers in his MVP year to this year and the numbers are similar.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    i don't know about this...... i wouldn't do more than DC filler and 1st (filler someone like lou or price) for nash. saying that we would have 2 years to win a title.... then after nash is done we have to look for another PG when we could still have DC growing up in the system.... i don't know...
    We'd still have Lance. Either way, as long as the Suns demands don't go overboard then you take Nash and run. They need to show mercy and send him to us anyhow. Were one of the few teams in the league that has a real chance to compete with little to no "star power". Adding Nash brings a spotlight to what's going on here in INDY. If Larry swings a deal for Nash then he is the obvious choice for an Executive of the Year Award.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    I only do this if the Pacers brass really thinks they have a chance of winning it all in the next 1-2 years with Nash.

    I'm not really thinking that's the case.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    If we look to trade for Nash, please try to grab Lopez too.

    Lopez is barely getting playing time with Gortat and Frye eating most of the minutes.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So what's Pheonix looking for in terms of price?
    The Suns have said repeatedly they won't trade Nash unless he asks to be traded... Nash has looked point blank at reporters and has said he's not that type of person that would ask for a trade, and he can't walk away from his teammates.

    So unless one side does a 180, he isn't even available for a trade... the whole 'willing to consider' part from the suns isn't about if the price is right, it's about willing to do so to respect Nash if he wants to be traded.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I only do this if the Pacers brass really thinks they have a chance of winning it all in the next 1-2 years with Nash.

    I'm not really thinking that's the case.
    Why do you think this?

    Just because of the existence of the SuperTeams, is there no chance of winning a Championship over the next 2 seasons?

    I'm looking at the next 2 seasons as the window to win it all...this is how long we have West and 1 year short of when Granger becomes a UFA.....before the both of them likely bolts for greener pastures.

    Is it realistic?

    Probably not with the current roster....but is it possible if we can continue to build upon the existing foundation that we have built?

    I think so.

    If there is a chance to even RENT Nash without costing a 1st AND Collison ( but one or the other )...I'd consider it. Getting Nash builds upon what we have and gives us a better chance to win in the near future.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Here is the tweet I was talking about.

    @tomhaberstroh
    For example: Steve Nash in his 2 MVP seasons: 17.2 ppg, 11.0 apg, 22.6 PER. The 2 seasons after? 17.7 ppg, 11.4 apg, 22.4 PER.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by tadscout View Post
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    The Suns have said repeatedly they won't trade Nash unless he asks to be traded... Nash has looked point blank at reporters and has said he's not that type of person that would ask for a trade, and he can't walk away from his teammates.

    So unless one side does a 180, he isn't even available for a trade... the whole 'willing to consider' part from the suns isn't about if the price is right, it's about willing to do so to respect Nash if he wants to be traded.
    I'm reading some posts from the Suns RealGM board about this...and it's pretty much what you say. If Nash said that it's best to part ways...then the Suns will accomodate him...I can see see the Suns even getting back less "trade value" in return if Nash asked the Suns to send him to a Team of his choosing....but at the same time...I can see Nash pushing the opposing Team to send back good value so that the Suns aren't totally left in a lurch.

    The FO has essentially said that Nash has earned the right to decide his own destiny with the Suns. They are doing something similar with Grant Hill. It's part of the culture that the Suns FO is trying to build. If anything, this is commendable.....especially when you see Teams like the Knicks do anything to anyone in order to get the Players that they want. It sounds like the FO has likely fielded offers to gauge his trade value....deemed it not worth the few months that they'd lose Nash and decided to go the "safe and admirable PR route" to simply let Nash go for nothing in Free Agency.

    Although I can see Nash leaving via FA to the Team of his choice...I am going to guess ( again ) that Nash's Agent will work out some better S&T deal that would net Nash more $$$$ and the Suns "something, anything" in return so that they don't lose Nash for nothing.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    If we look to trade for Nash, please try to grab Lopez too.

    Lopez is barely getting playing time with Gortat and Frye eating most of the minutes.
    If I didn't care about Jared Dudley's contract being so long...I'd try to get Nash, Lopez and Dudley to fill out the roster.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    My issues are the same as before. He's 39 (or soon will be), and he won't come cheap. Pass, and maybe you take a stab at getting him next summer (though I doubt it).

  25. #44
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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Please No. He has no future here and we need to create a team that can subdue the Bulls and Heat. Not blow the cap on a 38 yr. old that will get crushed by the Bulls and Heat in a playoff series.

    He is a great player, but it's the wrong place, wrong time for him to be here!

  26. #45

    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    If there's a chance to get him, if I'm one of the top guys at FO I'll consider it very well. The main question really is the asking price of the Suns. Nash is only one of the few who gets to fit into any coach's style, so in terms of how well he'll fit is not much of a problem. If the Suns ask for too much, or a big part of our current core, then that will be really risky considering that Nash will be just a "rental" this season should we trade for him.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So what's Pheonix looking for in terms of price?
    For argument's sake, let's say it is only Collison and our 2012 1st round pick.

    Would anybody even hesitate at that?

  28. #47

    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    For argument's sake, let's say it is only Collison and our 2012 1st round pick.

    Would anybody even hesitate at that?
    Meh,
    If he signed a extension that was like 8 million or so then ya I would "consider" that.

    I look at it as Collisons really not a player I want to bring back after his rookie contract so Nash is money worth spent compared to Collison on a similar deal.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 02-06-2012 at 01:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    For argument's sake, let's say it is only Collison and our 2012 1st round pick.

    Would anybody even hesitate at that?
    Yes...

  30. #49
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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Also, Mark Jackson was a part of the Pacers success. He was a floor general.

    I, personally couldn't stand watching him play because of his inabilities surpassed his abilities.

    The TV / He as a coach can spin it however they want today, but I know the truth and he would so **** me off game after game. I had always said that if the Pacers had a faster point guard that had 1/2 his court vision that they would have been winning Championships. His team play did not make up for his inabilities. Especially in the playoffs, he was always more exposed.

    The best description I can give Jackson is "Old Reliable". Not necessarily a good thing.

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    Default Re: Report: Suns Willing To Consider Trading Steve Nash

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    For argument's sake, let's say it is only Collison and our 2012 1st round pick.

    Would anybody even hesitate at that?
    I would love to keep DC but is that is their asking price you do it, as I posted before his numbers are as good as when he was the MVP he can make us contenders immediately.

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