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Thread: Give Lance a chance!

  1. #26
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Everyone here swore Lance was playing PG here until Vogel said something about it. 82 games was right about that. Ill trust them before people here.

    As for CJ Jones, if you look at the PG stats he's barely played there. His minutes are smalls is, but the sample size at PG is minuscule.
    The particular example with PG was the last time I looked at this site and its obviously inaccurate. I didn't search up an example to discredit that site. I am sure this type of data is difficult to collect.

    So what is your problem with Lance on defense? Until GH was injured, he and Lance shared the traditional PG duties. I really don't care how much he played one position or another and to be honest (even if there accurate) I don't see much value in these stats( especially considering the limited minutes and other variables that are ignored). This isn't a one on one game and not scoring says nothing about defense.

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Everyone here swore Lance was playing PG here until Vogel said something about it. 82 games was right about that. Ill trust them before people here.

    As for CJ Jones, if you look at the PG stats he's barely played there. His minutes are smalls is, but the sample size at PG is minuscule.
    Ah, I see now. Thanks, I'll figure this stuff out eventually.

    I gotta agree with spazzxb and call on these numbers. There's no way Lance has played less than 10% of his minutes at pg. He initiated the offense at least half the time with Hill, and he guarded opposing pg's while Hill chased around sg's off the ball. Also, why would Vogel need to announce Lance was gonna be playing strictly sg, if that was the position he was playing over 90% of the time anyway(according to 82games)?

  4. #28
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Ah, I see now. Thanks, I'll figure this stuff out eventually.

    I gotta agree with spazzxb and call on these numbers. There's no way Lance has played less than 10% of his minutes at pg. He initiated the offense at least half the time with Hill, and he guarded opposing pg's while Hill chased around sg's off the ball. Also, why would Vogel need to announce Lance was gonna be playing strictly sg, if that was the position he was playing over 90% of the time anyway(according to 82games)?
    Well, 82games.com was apparently just stating the obvious. They knew when they logged his minutes that he shouldn't have been playing the point whether he was or not.

  5. #29
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Regardless of what position you think he is, (apparently what the coach says isn't good enough for you) in a vast majority of his time on the court, he's been a pretty serious negative from a production standpoint.

    Basically he's around a net-negative PER of 15.5 if you average both PG & SG numbers.
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 02-07-2012 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #30
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Vogel said that Lance would spend most of his time at the 2, not that he was going to spend all his time at the 2.

    His comment doesn't prove or disprove anything.

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  8. #31

    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    The particular example with PG was the last time I looked at this site and its obviously inaccurate. I didn't search up an example to discredit that site. I am sure this type of data is difficult to collect.

    So what is your problem with Lance on defense? Until GH was injured, he and Lance shared the traditional PG duties. I really don't care how much he played one position or another and to be honest (even if there accurate) I don't see much value in these stats( especially considering the limited minutes and other variables that are ignored). This isn't a one on one game and not scoring says nothing about defense.
    Lance has got the same problem on defense than Darren has. And the same problem PG has. (Yes, PG has one problem on defense)

    He can't cover screen and rolls, period.
    And he watches the ball instead of his man.

    First one, he may just be too slow to cover well (Just as personally, I think DC is too small and isn't laterally quick) Now, if it's done with West, that's partially to blame, but both DC and Lance struggle with that when the post player is anyone.

    Second, is just a youth thing, it can be corrected. It does get him a few steals, but it also gets quite a few wide open shots for his guy.

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  10. #32
    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Lance has got the same problem on defense than Darren has. And the same problem PG has. (Yes, PG has one problem on defense)

    He can't cover screen and rolls, period.
    And he watches the ball instead of his man.

    First one, he may just be too slow to cover well (Just as personally, I think DC is too small and isn't laterally quick) Now, if it's done with West, that's partially to blame, but both DC and Lance struggle with that when the post player is anyone.

    Second, is just a youth thing, it can be corrected. It does get him a few steals, but it also gets quite a few wide open shots for his guy.
    Yeah, I hope Vogel is going over tape with our wings and showing them how to more effectively get through screens. I see teams doing this to us a lot cause we continue to struggle at it.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

  11. #33

    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Regardless of what position you think he is, (apparently what the coach says isn't good enough for you) in a vast majority of his time on the court, he's been a pretty serious negative from a production standpoint.

    Basically he's around a net-negative PER of 15.5 if you average both PG & SG numbers.
    What did coach say? All I heard was Lance was gonna be used at the SG and AJ would get backup PG minutes. How do you get Lance has played SG all year out of that?

    82games has Paul playing over 33% of his minutes at SF, and Dahntay playing 50% of his minute at SG. That's clearly wrong, so they're probably wrong about Lance too. I doubt they even watch the games. It looks like they're staring at a stat sheet and slotting positions by height. We watch the games, so we know Lance initiated the offense at times with Hill, and that he guarded mostly PGs. Your source has him guarding SG over 90% of the time, so that there would throw his PER way off.

    spazzxb explained it a couple of posts up, there's too many variable in an NBA game. To collect these stats accurately would be nearly impossible because they don't know team game plans, and apparently aren't even watching the games.

  12. #34
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    Lebron, and Kobe initiate the offense far more than Lance and they aren't considered or listed at PG.

    Why do you think that's quality reasoning for calling Lance the PG?

  13. #35

    Default Re: Give Lance a chance!

    It's not just offense I'm talking about, it's the defense too. I would hope we could all agree that he guarded the oppositions PG at least half the time while Hill was playing.

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