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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

  1. #26
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Where did I say that?




    First, aside from tonight Lance really hasn't gotten additional minutes. Those minutes went to AJ and DJ.

    When you said they can't do something, I counter with they don't. Reguardless the bolded part is what I was expanding on.

    Think about this, can you remember a time when DJ passed Lance the ball? PG and Lance are young, everyone else on this team are at least 3 years older than them. When I say vets I mean most of the team. When we had GH playing with Lance he actually shared the ball handling with him. GH also has the status to keep DJ on a leash(limit his urge to dominate the ball. I won't speculate as to why but I just feel both DJ and AJ freeze Lance out of the offense.
    I hope you are not missing out on your life's calling of being a lawyer or politician. You were able to twist my words of observing an issue that I felt was present on court into a psychological issue of trust and selfishness. Very subtle and skilled on your part.

    It is obvious that Frank does not run many plays for the guards, I think he expects them to get their shots in transition and off of the passing game. So whoever is playing the two spot is probably nightly not going to get deep into the offense without creating it for themselves.

    However it still does not take away the fact that he doesn't confidently step into a shot when he gets the ball from either the mid range or perimeter.

    I like Lance, he had a couple of shaky games but that is to be expected. Also I've said before that I think Lance best position is point guard because he has the handles and the passing to play there and because he doesn't have the ability to excell at playing off of the ball.

    But that is just my opinion on the matter.


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  2. #27
    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We have another scoring option, he's just out injured at the moment.

    Probably wouldn't hurt to rent one for the rest of the season, though. Who's available?
    Well J.R. Smith should become available soon, I do believe the Chinese league he is playing for is having their playoffs right now. Whenever that's over he becomes available as a unrestricted free agent. I really hope we make a run at him.

  3. #28
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    AJ is valuable when he plays pass-first. When he looks for his offense every time down, however, he becomes a detriment.

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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Tyler Hansbrough: Please for the love of God, build on this. He took it right to the Magic all night long.
    Have rock, Will score! 14.33 PPG if he gets into double digits attempts, and when he scores he gets boards as he's getting 8.33 rebounds a game over those 6 games.

  6. #30
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    I am confident in George, Granger, West, and Hibbert moving forward. But Collison is not an adequate starter on this team because his role is too big for his output and style of play. He needs to distribute the damn ball and not hold it for 12 seconds in the shot clock and make us scramble in every half court set. He's a great guy to plug in for 24 minutes a game to add speed, quickness, and offensive ability... But we absolutely need a distributor who knows his role at the one if we want consistent offense. If Danny and Paul are too fatigued to get lift on their jumpers, then don't count on them to be the offense when we could play in the post or run pick and rolls.

    And I love what Darren has done for us this year... He is a very good player who has won games for us. His game is just not his role, however... He needs more time but we can win now as in make a run for the title if we get the right point guard who can boost the offense.

    It seemed like every time we needed something to happen to go on a run, Darren would do the opposite of what needed to be done. He isn't like this all of the time, but no team is going to win a lot of games with this much fatigue on top of non-logical decision making.

    AJ is just bad as a backup point guard, he doesn't bring anything that a minimum salary point guard can't bring.

    I feel like we are capable of making the second round as of right now and pushing a team like Chicago or Miami to 5-6 games, but in order to take the next step we need

    1) Paul George and Roy Hibbert to continue to blossom, which will obviously happen.
    2) A bench that is a good fit with each other. Hill, Tyler (Assuming he's just been in a little slump), and Dahntay are all good/great pieces for the bench and Lou is a great 5th big. But we need a backup point guard and a skilled back up center as an option to run the offense through. Maybe a shooter too, even though Hill can fill that role.
    3) A point guard that can be consistent, similar to the way David West brings consistency. Keep Darren if you can, but if we want to be serious either Darren consistently becomes the 13 and 9 he puts up on occasion without disappearing or we look for someone who can.

    Until these things are addressed one way or another we will be a very good team, but not a team that can out-execute Miami or Chicago in the finals. And we can absolutely do it with our cap space and pieces we already have if we play our cards right.

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  8. #31
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I hope you are not missing out on your life's calling of being a lawyer or politician. You were able to twist my words of observing an issue that I felt was present on court into a psychological issue of trust and selfishness. Very subtle and skilled on your part.

    It is obvious that Frank does not run many plays for the guards, I think he expects them to get their shots in transition and off of the passing game. So whoever is playing the two spot is probably nightly not going to get deep into the offense without creating it for themselves.

    However it still does not take away the fact that he doesn't confidently step into a shot when he gets the ball from either the mid range or perimeter.

    I like Lance, he had a couple of shaky games but that is to be expected. Also I've said before that I think Lance best position is point guard because he has the handles and the passing to play there and because he doesn't have the ability to excell at playing off of the ball.

    But that is just my opinion on the matter.
    I don't think its that big of a stretch to say they can kick the ball out to him, but choose not to. I don't believe Lance has had the opportunity to pass on open shots. Unless someone dribbles into trouble, Lance really never gets the ball since AJ took over.

    The issue with DJ had been on my mind. DJ's shot has been falling and he does play great defense, so I haven't harped on it.

    Remember when the rumors about lance's issues last year pointed to an aurgument between DJ and Lance? This season, even when lance was the point guard, DJ has refused to give him the ball in transition. In reguards to playing with our starting unit DJ has been better. I just think when he plays with Lance and even AJ, DJ tends to reverts to thinking he is the number one option.

    I agree Lance is better at point guard. Even at the 2, however Lance was far more involved in the offense playing next to George Hill. I actually think George Hill and Lance play pretty well next to each other.

    Finally, in my real life noone I spend time with cares about basketball. I am glad for your opinion.
    Last edited by spazzxb; 02-05-2012 at 05:57 PM.

  9. #32

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    I don't think its that big of a stretch to say they can kick the ball out to him, but choose not to. I don't believe Lance has had the opportunity to pass on open shots. Unless someone dribbles into trouble, Lance really never gets the ball since AJ took over.

    The issue with DJ had been on my mind. DJ's shot has been falling and he does play great defense, so I haven't harped on it.

    Remember when the rumors about lance's issues last year pointed to an aurgument between DJ and Lance? This season, even when lance was the point guard, DJ has refused to give him the ball in transition. In reguards to playing with our starting unit DJ has been better. I just think when he plays with Lance and even AJ, DJ tends to reverts to thinking he is the number one option.

    I agree Lance is better at point guard. Even at the 2, however Lance was far more involved in the offense playing next to George Hill. I actually think George Hill and Lance play pretty well next to each other.

    Finally, in my real life noone I spend time with cares about basketball. I am glad for your opinion.
    DJ doesn't give the ball to anyone in transition. He's not icing Lance out.

    I think AJ and Lance/DC and Lance just don't know how to play together yet, because they haven't had to.

  10. #33

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    See, this is why I stick up for AJ.

    I like AJ and I don't think he's playing bad, but it's hurting the offense when he can't get his shot to fall and he's not creating much for anyone other than Tyler (he's the best at finding Ty). The AJ, Lance, Dahntay lineup isn't a good one. Neither wing can shoot it consistently, and AJ's struggling to make plays for himself out of the p&r. I'd rather see AJ off the ball if this is the 2nd unit we're gonna keep running out there. He'd be the better spot up shooter between him and Lance, and then Lance could put his skills to better use in the p&r.

  11. #34

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I like AJ and I don't think he's playing bad, but it's hurting the offense when he can't get his shot to fall and he's not creating much for anyone other than Tyler (he's the best at finding Ty). The AJ, Lance, Dahntay lineup isn't a good one. Neither wing can shoot it consistently, and AJ's struggling to make plays for himself out of the p&r. I'd rather see AJ off the ball if this is the 2nd unit we're gonna keep running out there. He'd be the better spot up shooter between him and Lance, and then Lance could put his skills to better use in the p&r.
    Okay, out of Lance, Dahntay, and Lou, who would you like him to create a shot for? When West and Roy are out there, or Danny, West or George are out there, Price finds them. (In fact, against Dallas, AJ and West looked really good together) And runs a pretty good looking offense. There's not a backup point guard in the league that could make this unit look good offensively. But, that doesn't mean it can't be effective. It was effective last night. It's just not going to ever be pretty. That doesn't mean AJ isn't making smart decisions. He's consistently looked to get the ball inside so that we can play inside and out?

    Dahntay, bless him, isn't the best in a half court offense. And Lou and Lance don't score period.

    Lance has been significantly better when played at SG. Whether he ends up there for his career or not, right now, it's better for the team if he's played there.

    AJ needs to find his shot, just so he can consistently knock down open jumpers. (And I don't want him to be discouraged from going to the basket. He'll figure that out eventually.)
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-05-2012 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #35
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    AJ is valuable when he plays pass-first. When he looks for his offense every time down, however, he becomes a detriment.
    That is easily fixable with good coaching.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    That is easily fixable with good coaching.
    That's fixable with a better backup

  14. #37
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Well after last nights game, I think Mark Cuban is correct when he has criticized the officiating this year. No travel call on Anderson in the final minute, but they will call a fully locked arm on Lou? That is the most uncommon call in the entire league I don't think I've seen that call in the past 5 years.

    Not to mention the no call on Paul Pierce's travel last week in crunch time. Its getting ridiculous.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  15. #38

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Smoke & Mirrors (or is it Magic)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Okay, out of Lance, Dahntay, and Lou, who would you like him to create a shot for? When West and Roy are out there, or Danny, West or George are out there, Price finds them. (In fact, against Dallas, AJ and West looked really good together) And runs a pretty good looking offense. There's not a backup point guard in the league that could make this unit look good offensively. But, that doesn't mean it can't be effective. It was effective last night. It's just not going to ever be pretty. That doesn't mean AJ isn't making smart decisions. He's consistently looked to get the ball inside so that we can play inside and out?

    Dahntay, bless him, isn't the best in a half court offense. And Lou and Lance don't score period.

    Lance has been significantly better when played at SG. Whether he ends up there for his career or not, right now, it's better for the team if he's played there.

    AJ needs to find his shot, just so he can consistently knock down open jumpers. (And I don't want him to be discouraged from going to the basket. He'll figure that out eventually.)
    Yeah, I agree it's a bad mix of players. Any pg is gonna struggle making plays with this group, but that's why we need AJ to find his shot or get to the rim every now and then to keep the defense honest. The reason I suggested Lance at the pg with this group is his ability to get to the rim create because of his size and passing. I think he'd be more useful that way than standing in the corner, which is basically what he's doing now.

    I realize why the switch was made, and it seems to be working. Lance has played much more under control since then. Taking the ball out of his hands makes him concentrate on other aspects of his game if he wants to stay on the floor. Eventually though, the plan is for him to be a pg, so he needs reps at pg. For adjusting and playing well, I think he should be given another chance with the ball in his hands on offense. This could also help the 2nd unit get some easier baskets IMO.

    I hate to say it, but I'd like to see one of Paul or Danny playing sf at all times so we have at least one shooter on the floor. Then give Dahntay the backup sg minutes while Hill's out. Of course, that would leave an AJ/Lance dilemma at pg. I think either would work, and they'd both be better players, and we'd be a better team this way.

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