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Thread: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

  1. #126

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Our two favorite whipping boys, Rush and McRoberts, are replaced by Tyler and Hill and our bench production has dropped tremendously? Say it ain't so.

  2. #127
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Our two favorite whipping boys, Rush and McRoberts, are replaced by Tyler and Hill and our bench production has dropped tremendously? Say it ain't so.
    I think of it more of an anomaly than the norm.

  3. #128

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    I don't because our bench is like a mini Sacramento Kings. We replaced two of our most willing passers with scorers, and now we have five guys who can't create shots for others. It's one on one until Foster gets back or Stephenson gets the ball in his hands.

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  5. #129

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Our two favorite whipping boys, Rush and McRoberts, are replaced by Tyler and Hill and our bench production has dropped tremendously? Say it ain't so.
    I said it before, our bench was quite good when he played an actual point guard and Foster with them.

    Price, Hill, Jones, Tyler, and Foster are a good bench unit. They fit together. Hill was able to do what Hill does best, Jones got the ball at the right time. Tyler was able to get the ball where he needs it. (As AJ gets how to play with Tyler, probably better than any guard on the roster.) It's just plain stupid at this point. If we really want to give Lance a couple of minutes every game of developmental time, do it. We can find the minutes. We just can't ever have no point guard in the game.

    And for godsakes allow Hill to do what Hill does best, score and play defense. Let the poor guy have a structured role, and one he's comfortable and successful in.

    You can't just substitute a shooting guard for a point guard. It doesn't work, no matter how many times you try to force it. Shooting guards are shooting guards and have a different mentality and bring different skills to a game. It's not the same thing as shooting guard and small forwards, point guards are a whole different mentality.

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  7. #130

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    I'm not really worried about positions. I'm worried about passers. For some reason we try running Hill at point with Lance off the ball. Lance needs the ball to score or create for others. And I agree on Hill. He should be looking to score if he has the ball, not trying to run a pick and roll (and definitely not with Lou???).

    The ball needs to be in the hands of someone who can and will pass. Lance or AJ, I'm fine with either.

  8. #131
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    People saying Roy had a bad game are only looking at the box score. Most of his misses were good looks he usually makes. Even the Boston announcers were like "Man, I love that. He's such a good player" after one of this trademark hook shots. He looked pretty good last night IMO.

  9. #132

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I'm not really worried about positions. I'm worried about passers. For some reason we try running Hill at point with Lance off the ball. Lance needs the ball to score or create for others. And I agree on Hill. He should be looking to score if he has the ball, not trying to run a pick and roll (and definitely not with Lou???).

    The ball needs to be in the hands of someone who can and will pass. Lance or AJ, I'm fine with either.
    No, you need to have someone on the court who can run an offense. Lance can't do that. He was horrible when we were trying to get him to do it. That's why Hill is now playing point. That was the reason for a change. Because as much as he's not good at it, Lance is significantly worse.

    He can throw nice passes. But he doesn't know how to set people up in a way that makes it easy for them to score. And he doesn't know how to make the pass that sets up the assist. And he doesn't know how to direct people to move in the right spots. And he doesn't know how to recognize a defense and call the correct play for what to run. You need an actual point guard.

    That's not to say that having more than one passer doesn't help. I mean, sticking Price on the court with three ball hogs and Amundson is not going to be good offense either. But Hill is a pretty good passer himself. Passing isn't the issue, Hill does it just fine.
    Last edited by Sookie; 01-28-2012 at 03:33 PM.

  10. #133
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Our two favorite whipping boys, Rush and McRoberts, are replaced by Tyler and Hill and our bench production has dropped tremendously? Say it ain't so.
    What? Are you kidding?

    Seriously let's not go over board here. Yes Tyler is in a massive prolonged slump. It has been ever since he got hit on the head again, now if that has anything to do with anything I don't know or if it's just a coincidence. But up until that time Tyler was pretty much a dynamo and was avg. double figure points and near double figure rebounds.

    Hill started off the season rough but then went on an aboslute tear and kept us in games almost all by himself. Now he has had a 4 game funk that has coincided with his contract extension, coincidence or reason I don't know but it is there.

    Listen to any team scouting report on the Pacers and the first thing they talk about is our depth.

    Look I'll be the first to admit that over the past 5 games or so our bench has been not only not an asset but mostly detrimental. However at not one time have I ever thought to myself man we need Josh McRoberts (who I'm a huge fan of) or Brandon Rush (who I really dind't care for).

    Neither of these two would have changed the outcome of any games and also let's not act like were are 5-12, we are still winning.


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  12. #134

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    What? Are you kidding?

    Seriously let's not go over board here. Yes Tyler is in a massive prolonged slump. It has been ever since he got hit on the head again, now if that has anything to do with anything I don't know or if it's just a coincidence. But up until that time Tyler was pretty much a dynamo and was avg. double figure points and near double figure rebounds.

    Hill started off the season rough but then went on an aboslute tear and kept us in games almost all by himself. Now he has had a 4 game funk that has coincided with his contract extension, coincidence or reason I don't know but it is there.

    Listen to any team scouting report on the Pacers and the first thing they talk about is our depth.

    Look I'll be the first to admit that over the past 5 games or so our bench has been not only not an asset but mostly detrimental. However at not one time have I ever thought to myself man we need Josh McRoberts (who I'm a huge fan of) or Brandon Rush (who I really dind't care for).

    Neither of these two would have changed the outcome of any games and also let's not act like were are 5-12, we are still winning.
    Peck, would you really rather see Lou out there instead of McRoberts? I know you are a Lou fan, but look at what we are seeing on the basketball court.

    Josh probably wouldn't be happy with that role of 5-10 minutes per game, but he would be getting more than Lou if he were on this team.

  13. #135
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Peck, would you really rather see Lou out there instead of McRoberts? I know you are a Lou fan, but look at what we are seeing on the basketball court.

    Josh probably wouldn't be happy with that role of 5-10 minutes per game, but he would be getting more than Lou if he were on this team.
    Lou's problems are being heightened because Tyler is in a slump. If he had his offense rolling then Lou's lack of offense would not be nearly as problematic. You can throw our bench's overall lack of scoring as part of the issue.

    It's so bad that honestly our best bench scorer the past few games has been Jones.

    Don't get me wrong I would prefer Josh over Lou, but Josh made more money and is in a better situation where he is.

    Remember Lou is nothing more than a "break here in case of fire" axe. Foster is out so here comes Lou, once Jeff returns Lou will go back to the pines. That is a position that Josh would have had and frankly he is better than that.


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  15. #136

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Lou's problems are being heightened because Tyler is in a slump. If he had his offense rolling then Lou's lack of offense would not be nearly as problematic. You can throw our bench's overall lack of scoring as part of the issue.

    It's so bad that honestly our best bench scorer the past few games has been Jones.

    Don't get me wrong I would prefer Josh over Lou, but Josh made more money and is in a better situation where he is.

    Remember Lou is nothing more than a "break here in case of fire" axe. Foster is out so here comes Lou, once Jeff returns Lou will go back to the pines. That is a position that Josh would have had and frankly he is better than that.
    Yea, Lou really isn't the problem with the bench unit.

  16. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Yea, Lou really isn't the problem with the bench unit.
    Except they are running alot of pick and rolls with him where he is receiving passes... nothing good can or ever does come of that.

    So, I would say he IS a problem at least until they change the offense to suit his lack of skill. I can't see that happening.

  17. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Except they are running alot of pick and rolls with him where he is receiving passes... nothing good can or ever does come of that.

    So, I would say he IS a problem at least until they change the offense to suit his lack of skill. I can't see that happening.
    Right, but I see Tyler or the guards that won't adjust to Tyler as the problem there. Because Tyler's the better offensive option, he just doesn't set a screen right. And the guards, instead of throwing him the ball for the free throw line a little early, apparently prefer to not get double teamed, so they use Lou instead.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    No, you need to have someone on the court who can run an offense. Lance can't do that. He was horrible when we were trying to get him to do it. That's why Hill is now playing point. That was the reason for a change. Because as much as he's not good at it, Lance is significantly worse.
    You certainly like to just make crap up and pretend its the obvious truth. Lance plays the 2 because thats where there are minutes available. No one (from the pacers organization) has ever said anything about Lance being unable to run the point. In fact, our coach has said that Lance is earning his minutes. Bird is not forcing Frank to play Lance(as you also claim is obvious). Lance did not do as bad as you say, and Price is not as good as you claim.

  19. #140

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Right, but I see Tyler or the guards that won't adjust to Tyler as the problem there. Because Tyler's the better offensive option, he just doesn't set a screen right. And the guards, instead of throwing him the ball for the free throw line a little early, apparently prefer to not get double teamed, so they use Lou instead.
    It's really messing up the 2nd unit!

    I am starting to think you are right and we should start using AJ with the 2nd unit. I dunno, there are so many things wrong right now. Having Lou out there with the offense they are trying to run is doomed to fail, Tyler, if he is not aggressive and drawing fouls is just as bad as Lou in different ways, like as you said bad screens. It all seems like it's so bad that a guy like DJones actually can thrive, because every play is broken and he is great in those situations.

    We really miss Jeff, who is very good at moving the ball. Tyler and Lou are so hopeless at passing/ball movement it becomes truly ugly. This is where having Josh in the 2nd unit would be a perfect fit. Sucks.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 01-28-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  20. #141

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    You certainly like to just make crap up and pretend its the obvious truth. Lance plays the 2 because thats where there are minutes available. No one (from the pacers organization) has ever said anything about Lance being unable to run the point. In fact, our coach has said that Lance is earning his minutes. Bird is not forcing Frank to play Lance(as you also claim is obvious). Lance did not do as bad as you say, and Price is not as good as you claim.
    Really, he's playing the 2 because there were minutes there, when Hill plays BETTER as a 2. So if Lance could play it, why wouldn't you switch them? Or why would it look like the team so desperately needs a backup point guard to be playing?

    Why do you think they switched them then, if originally Hill was playing backup SG, and Lance backup PG..and then Frank decided Lance was going to be primarily playing backup SG?

    Because he was really hurting the team when he played PG. That's why. Regardless of whether he'll ever become a PG, he's quite clearly not one now.

    Frank Vogel also said that Lance would get his playing time back no matter how well AJ played. Lance also gets about 6 minutes a game during competitive games, not usually playing in the second half. (Coughdevelopmentminutescough - which is fine. And I said in my post not to take them away. I also just think you need to play a point guard at all times..I always thought that was a pretty obvious thing to do.)

    I don't understand the controversy in what I'm saying. We've got a "hey, there's no offense being run in the second unit/whatever offense is run looks terrible" issue. And it was magically fixed when he played AJ - an actual point guard. And I'm saying "maybe we ought to play an actual point guard.."
    Last edited by Sookie; 01-28-2012 at 05:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers_heath View Post
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    People saying Roy had a bad game are only looking at the box score. Most of his misses were good looks he usually makes. Even the Boston announcers were like "Man, I love that. He's such a good player" after one of this trademark hook shots. He looked pretty good last night IMO.
    Isn't missing shots you normally make a good example of things that happen when one has a bad game? If you don't normally play better, then you just aren't any good to begin with.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Really, he's playing the 2 because there were minutes there, when Hill plays BETTER as a 2. So if Lance could play it, why wouldn't you switch them? Or why would it look like the team so desperately needs a backup point guard to be playing?

    Why do you think they switched them then, if originally Hill was playing backup SG, and Lance backup PG..and then Frank decided Lance was going to be primarily playing backup SG?

    Because he was really hurting the team when he played PG. That's why. Regardless of whether he'll ever become a PG, he's quite clearly not one now.

    Frank Vogel also said that Lance would get his playing time back no matter how well AJ played. Lance also gets about 6 minutes a game during competitive games, not usually playing in the second half. (Coughdevelopmentminutescough - which is fine. And I said in my post not to take them away. I also just think you need to play a point guard at all times..I always thought that was a pretty obvious thing to do.)

    I don't understand the controversy in what I'm saying. We've got a "hey, there's no offense being run in the second unit/whatever offense is run looks terrible" issue. And it was magically fixed when he played AJ - an actual point guard. And I'm saying "maybe we ought to play an actual point guard.."
    George Hill has backed up 2 positions all season. George Hill is also short for a 2, creating obvious reasons you might want Lance defending at the 2
    (although he has defended pg's as well). On offense I really think GH and LS share PG responsibilities when they are both on the court together(which is most the time when Lance plays). One area we can agree on is that I would like to have a shooter(like PG) on the floor with that lineup instead of DJ.)

    I can agree to disagree on Lance vs. AJ, for me the issue is more about DJ trying to be our third point guard when he is on the court(especially with Lance).
    Last edited by spazzxb; 01-28-2012 at 05:28 PM.

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