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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

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Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Should we rent Chris Kaman?

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  • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

    If it's a salary dump, sure...why not? However, I'm not giving up a lot just so Kaman can be Hibbert's caddy. I'm sure towards the deadline, we could find a strictly salary dump backup center.

    Comment


    • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

      Ive seen MORE than enough of Lou, make the team better NOW Larry.

      Comment


      • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

        Originally posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
        We could've gotten two-years of the superior Sam Dalembert (signed with Houston for 2/$14M) for the same price some of you are wanting to pay for one-year of Chris Kaman.
        You are taking facts and reaching an unwarranted assumption. Just because Sam signed with Houston for 2/$14m doesn't mean we could have gotten him for the same deal.

        For all we know the Pacers could have offered him a better deal, but Sam didn't want to back up Hibbert.

        As for Chris Kaman, I'm all for getting him if it doesn't disrupt our core. But we have to remember he's probably going to be a rental, so other than salary cap and maybe a couple 2ed round picks is all I would want to offer.

        Can you imagine going into the playoffs with a front line rotation of Hibbert, Kaman, West, Hans, and Foster.

        Actually, I would really like to get him as a member of our permanent core, but I don't know if he would want to back up Hibbert.

        However, looking at what the Pacers front office has already accomplished in building this team, whatever they give for him would be okay with me.

        Comment


        • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

          I really don't see how we could pull this off. We have two of the three items they want, cap space and draft picks. But they also want a young prospect back as well.

          Would A.J. be enough? Would Lance? No way in hades do I ever give up Paul, George or Tyler for him.

          Would you guys be willing to give up Lance to rent Kaman for the rest of the year if you could get him for Lance, a pick and taking on the salary?

          Hmmmm... now that I think about it I wonder if they would consider Stanko as a young prospect. Obviously we don't.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

            They may want it, but I doubt they get it. They'll probably have to settle for one or two out of the three they want. I'd offer them a couple of 2nd rounder and of course that would equal cap space as well, and if AJ is the difference between a yes or a no I consider it, but otherwise they can suck it. They don't have much leverage here. At least not to a team like us. Maybe there's a more urgent team out there?

            Comment


            • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

              I wouldn't trade 1st round draft pick, considering how deep this draft will be. We aren't going to the finals this year, but we are better than 6th seed, so lets just play hard until this summer's free agency. No need to force things.

              Comment


              • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                I wouldn't give up a #1 draft pick for him even if we were going to try and keep him, because it wouldn't be a sure thing we could keep him.

                I would give up Lance, cap space and 2ed rounders for him.

                As for Stanko, isn't he supposed to come over next year? If so I wouldn't include him, because he could be in the front office's plans to be Roy's backup next year.

                Comment


                • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                  If EJ is out of the picture ( as in, the Pacers have ZERO chance of signing him next offseason ), as an "added incentive", is there anyway to offer to send a 1st round pick and Amundson to the Hornets while offering to take on Kaman AND Ariza ( I don't know if the salaries will work out )?

                  The "added incentive" would be the willingness to take on Ariza's 3 year long-term contract ( $6.7mil/$7.2mil/$7.7mil ) ....which is something that I'd think that the Hornets/Stern would want to do to make the Team easier to sell.

                  Ariza is still young and is still an impact Player that can still contribute at a high level on both ends of the floor and would IMHO fill the need to add a high Quality Player to the roster to fill out the perceived 9-man rotation that I think that we need to make it deep into the Playoffs for the next couple of seasons.

                  I know, it's a stetch...but this is the only other incentive that I can see that the Pacers could offer without sending any "prospects"
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                    As for Stanko, isn't he supposed to come over next year? If so I wouldn't include him, because he could be in the front office's plans to be Roy's backup next year.
                    Honestly, I would love to have some idea about what Earth the FO is going to do with Stanko. If we had any inkling that Stanko may come over next sesaon, then I'd give up my campaign to add some long term frontcourt depth just knowing that Stanko is going to finally be that guy next season.
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                      Honestly, I would love to have some idea about what Earth the FO is going to do with Stanko. If we had any inkling that Stanko may come over next sesaon, then I'd give up my campaign to add some long term frontcourt depth just knowing that Stanko is going to finally be that guy next season.
                      I think it was last year that Bird said that they planned to bring Stanko over in the next couple years.

                      I looked it up; http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_101022.html

                      Oct. 22, 2010
                      Barac impressive in exhibitions against NBA teams

                      They've measured his progress over the years in Europe, watching him grow physically and as a prospect. They've seen him transform from a skilled but gangly teen into a full-bodied banger.

                      Now that the Pacers finally have seen Stanko Barac perform against NBA competition, they know their time has been well-spent.

                      Barac traveled to the U.S. with his Caja Laboral (Spain) team for a pair of exhibition games, Oct. 14 in Memphis and Oct. 16 in San Antonio, and his performance was encouraging.

                      "Larry (Bird) and I were very pleased with his progress," said General Manager David Morway. "He is very skilled offensively and showed pretty good mobility for his size. He also has a high basketball IQ."

                      After battling foul trouble against the Grizzlies, the 7-2 Barac had 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocked shots against the Spurs.

                      "In the San Antonio game he played great … he probably changed eight to 10 shots around the basket," said Director of Scouting Ryan Carr. "I think it was good for him because he has the confidence he can play with those guys, matching up against Tim Duncan and DaJuan Blair and Antonio McDyess and having some success was probably a really good thing for him.


                      "He's come a long way. He's probably up to about 250 pounds, which is about 20 more than when we drafted him. He's as skilled a center as there is in the world. It doesn't make him the best but he scores with either hand in the post, he can shoot mid-range jumpers well, he's got a great touch, he's got a nice feel for the game. He's really maturing and getting a lot better. He's still only 24 years old and I would say we're really happy with the progress he has made."

                      The Pacers acquired Barac, a second-round pick, in a draft-night trade with Miami in 2007. He has remained in Europe, competing for his native Croatia in the 2008 Olympics, and has evolved into a top-tier player. After playing behind Tiago Splitter last season with Caja Laboral, Barac is now the starter as Splitter has joined the Spurs.

                      The opportunity to see Barac play against NBA teams was a major opportunity for the Pacers' scouting staff.

                      "I think it was really important," said Carr. "We've seen him play in the EuroLeague. This is the first year since we've drafted him that he's a full-time starter and plays a lot of minutes. We're excited about that. He doesn't have to play behind Splitter anymore.

                      "We've seen him play international competition but to play against NBA players was really important just to get a better sense of what he could do in our rules, in the spacing we play with, which is all so different from the way they play over there. It's a much more physical game over there. It was interesting to see."

                      Barac committed 11 fouls in the two games, the vast majority on moving screens in pick-and-roll situations, a play that is legal in Europe but not in the NBA. In the two games, he totaled 52 minutes, 23 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks, making 10 of 25 shots from the field.

                      He is under contract in Europe for two more seasons, though there are buyout options in the summer. (This article is dated Oct.22, 2010.)
                      Barac won't be joining the Pacers right away but his time could be coming in the near future if he continues to progress.

                      "He's a guy that the public forgets about a little bit or doesn't get to see so they're not really sure what he is. He's kind of like an urban legend," said Carr. "But we track him closely, we see him play numerous times, we have a close relationship with him. If the time comes that it fits the team and his situation, then you have to look at it. He's an asset. We didn't draft him just to draft him, we drafted him because we liked him as a player."
                      ------------------

                      After re-reading this I don't think the Pacers are interested in trading the rights to Stanko.
                      Last edited by Will Galen; 01-28-2012, 03:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                        Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                        I think it was last year that Bird said that they planned to bring Stanko over in the next couple years.

                        I looked it up; http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_101022.html

                        Oct. 22, 2010
                        Barac impressive in exhibitions against NBA teams

                        They've measured his progress over the years in Europe, watching him grow physically and as a prospect. They've seen him transform from a skilled but gangly teen into a full-bodied banger.

                        Now that the Pacers finally have seen Stanko Barac perform against NBA competition, they know their time has been well-spent.

                        Barac traveled to the U.S. with his Caja Laboral (Spain) team for a pair of exhibition games, Oct. 14 in Memphis and Oct. 16 in San Antonio, and his performance was encouraging.

                        "Larry (Bird) and I were very pleased with his progress," said General Manager David Morway. "He is very skilled offensively and showed pretty good mobility for his size. He also has a high basketball IQ."

                        After battling foul trouble against the Grizzlies, the 7-2 Barac had 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocked shots against the Spurs.

                        "In the San Antonio game he played great … he probably changed eight to 10 shots around the basket," said Director of Scouting Ryan Carr. "I think it was good for him because he has the confidence he can play with those guys, matching up against Tim Duncan and DaJuan Blair and Antonio McDyess and having some success was probably a really good thing for him.


                        "He's come a long way. He's probably up to about 250 pounds, which is about 20 more than when we drafted him. He's as skilled a center as there is in the world. It doesn't make him the best but he scores with either hand in the post, he can shoot mid-range jumpers well, he's got a great touch, he's got a nice feel for the game. He's really maturing and getting a lot better. He's still only 24 years old and I would say we're really happy with the progress he has made."

                        The Pacers acquired Barac, a second-round pick, in a draft-night trade with Miami in 2007. He has remained in Europe, competing for his native Croatia in the 2008 Olympics, and has evolved into a top-tier player. After playing behind Tiago Splitter last season with Caja Laboral, Barac is now the starter as Splitter has joined the Spurs.

                        The opportunity to see Barac play against NBA teams was a major opportunity for the Pacers' scouting staff.

                        "I think it was really important," said Carr. "We've seen him play in the EuroLeague. This is the first year since we've drafted him that he's a full-time starter and plays a lot of minutes. We're excited about that. He doesn't have to play behind Splitter anymore.

                        "We've seen him play international competition but to play against NBA players was really important just to get a better sense of what he could do in our rules, in the spacing we play with, which is all so different from the way they play over there. It's a much more physical game over there. It was interesting to see."

                        Barac committed 11 fouls in the two games, the vast majority on moving screens in pick-and-roll situations, a play that is legal in Europe but not in the NBA. In the two games, he totaled 52 minutes, 23 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks, making 10 of 25 shots from the field.

                        He is under contract in Europe for two more seasons, though there are buyout options in the summer. Barac won't be joining the Pacers right away but his time could be coming in the near future if he continues to progress.

                        "He's a guy that the public forgets about a little bit or doesn't get to see so they're not really sure what he is. He's kind of like an urban legend," said Carr. "But we track him closely, we see him play numerous times, we have a close relationship with him. If the time comes that it fits the team and his situation, then you have to look at it. He's an asset. We didn't draft him just to draft him, we drafted him because we liked him as a player."
                        After all this time, I just want to see him in a Pacers uniform....I just need to know if he's worth it or not.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                          We could absolutely use him, and available quality guys on expiring deals are definitely what we should be looking into, but I don't see any way we could do it. I'd do a top 20ish protected 1st and AJ, but not anything more. Kaman's a starting caliber 7 footer, he'll get a big deal in the offseason so not like we'd keep him long term.

                          They'll get better offers than that. I assume anyway.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                            Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                            I think it was last year that Bird said that they planned to bring Stanko over in the next couple years.

                            I looked it up; http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_101022.html

                            Oct. 22, 2010
                            Barac impressive in exhibitions against NBA teams

                            They've measured his progress over the years in Europe, watching him grow physically and as a prospect. They've seen him transform from a skilled but gangly teen into a full-bodied banger.

                            Now that the Pacers finally have seen Stanko Barac perform against NBA competition, they know their time has been well-spent.

                            Barac traveled to the U.S. with his Caja Laboral (Spain) team for a pair of exhibition games, Oct. 14 in Memphis and Oct. 16 in San Antonio, and his performance was encouraging.

                            "Larry (Bird) and I were very pleased with his progress," said General Manager David Morway. "He is very skilled offensively and showed pretty good mobility for his size. He also has a high basketball IQ."

                            After battling foul trouble against the Grizzlies, the 7-2 Barac had 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocked shots against the Spurs.

                            "In the San Antonio game he played great … he probably changed eight to 10 shots around the basket," said Director of Scouting Ryan Carr. "I think it was good for him because he has the confidence he can play with those guys, matching up against Tim Duncan and DaJuan Blair and Antonio McDyess and having some success was probably a really good thing for him.


                            "He's come a long way. He's probably up to about 250 pounds, which is about 20 more than when we drafted him. He's as skilled a center as there is in the world. It doesn't make him the best but he scores with either hand in the post, he can shoot mid-range jumpers well, he's got a great touch, he's got a nice feel for the game. He's really maturing and getting a lot better. He's still only 24 years old and I would say we're really happy with the progress he has made."

                            The Pacers acquired Barac, a second-round pick, in a draft-night trade with Miami in 2007. He has remained in Europe, competing for his native Croatia in the 2008 Olympics, and has evolved into a top-tier player. After playing behind Tiago Splitter last season with Caja Laboral, Barac is now the starter as Splitter has joined the Spurs.

                            The opportunity to see Barac play against NBA teams was a major opportunity for the Pacers' scouting staff.

                            "I think it was really important," said Carr. "We've seen him play in the EuroLeague. This is the first year since we've drafted him that he's a full-time starter and plays a lot of minutes. We're excited about that. He doesn't have to play behind Splitter anymore.

                            "We've seen him play international competition but to play against NBA players was really important just to get a better sense of what he could do in our rules, in the spacing we play with, which is all so different from the way they play over there. It's a much more physical game over there. It was interesting to see."

                            Barac committed 11 fouls in the two games, the vast majority on moving screens in pick-and-roll situations, a play that is legal in Europe but not in the NBA. In the two games, he totaled 52 minutes, 23 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks, making 10 of 25 shots from the field.

                            He is under contract in Europe for two more seasons, though there are buyout options in the summer. (This article is dated Oct.22, 2010.)
                            Barac won't be joining the Pacers right away but his time could be coming in the near future if he continues to progress.

                            "He's a guy that the public forgets about a little bit or doesn't get to see so they're not really sure what he is. He's kind of like an urban legend," said Carr. "But we track him closely, we see him play numerous times, we have a close relationship with him. If the time comes that it fits the team and his situation, then you have to look at it. He's an asset. We didn't draft him just to draft him, we drafted him because we liked him as a player."
                            ------------------

                            After re-reading this I don't think the Pacers are interested in trading the rights to Stanko.
                            Your reading to much into it IMO. There are a lof if's and could's used here. I think the greatest value he has to our club are his rights. Just like Lorbek.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                            • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              Your reading to much into it IMO. There are a lof if's and could's used here. I think the greatest value he has to our club are his rights. Just like Lorbek.
                              I could see them trading his rights for a sure thing, but not to New Orleans for Kaman. If the Pacers wanted to keep Kaman for our core, and were sure they could, yes I could see that, but not as a rental.

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                              • Re: Should we rent Chris Kaman?

                                We shouldn't trade for him, but we should get involved in a trade around him. Check the trades forum, I posted an Idea there
                                Originally posted by Piston Prince
                                Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
                                "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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