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Thread: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

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    Default Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    I've brought this up a lot over the last couple game threads since Foster has been out of action and we have been forced to use Amundson in the rotation.

    I'd wish that Amundson is that guy that can help us get by while Foster is recovering or resting.....but ( for some reason ), Vogel has used the lineup of GH/Lance/Inferno/Hansbough/Amundson ( which IMHO is one of the worst lineup combinations that Vogel can come up with ) enough for me to take notice and question why it's even used in the first place. Amundson was brought in for his defense...not his offense...which leads to the obvious question:

    Bird has said that he wants a Team with a lot of depth.....but beyond our key 7-man rotation of:

    DC/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert/GH/Hansbrough

    Do we truly have the depth in the Frontcourt ( specificallly at the Backup Center position ) to make a deep run into the Playoffs?

    I certainly don't think that Amundson is that guy....I wish that Foster is the guy that can help us get there....but IMHO...he isn't healthy enough to be be relied upon to continually play for the regular season and IMHO a 7-game Playoff series to be the Backup Center that can get us by while Hibbert is resting. I know that we have the option to simply go with a Frontcourt of Hansbrough and West....but I don't think that it is optimal nor preferable to use that Frontcourt lineup for extended period of times.....especially against bigger and taller lineups that can score. Add in that having Foster in and out of the lineup causes inconsistent lineups and lack of familiarity when it comes to rotations and Team Chemistry....I think that it's key to find an effective Frontcourt Player that can play consistently for 15 mpg.

    Before you ask.....why am I wondering why we have to care about the 8th or 9th Man in our rotation ( basically the minutes that Inferno/Lance and Foster/Amundson/Pendegraph ).....tell me, are you comfortable with Amundson playing at least 15 mpg for 1/3 of the games for the rest of the season...if not the Playoffs ( cuz I certainly don't see Foster playing 15 mpg for the rest of the season )?

    To be clear....I am not saying that I expected Amundson to be some difference-maker type of Player on both ends of the court ( I was truly amazed by Amundson's poor offense )......but IMHO....as the way that lineup stands, we are good enough to get into the 1st round of the Playoffs.....but not a very good chance at making it into the 2nd round of the Playoffs. I think that the FO needs to improve our lineup in order to get to the next level...which IMHO is a Team that has enough depth to complete and make a deep run into the 2nd round of the Playoffs. Getting a solid Big Man that can consistently play 15 mpg would allow us to push a Player like Foster down the "rotational ladder" into being the "break in case of emergency" Big Man ( basically the 10th or 11th Man in our rotation instead of being a 8th or 9th Man that would have to be relied upon on a regular basis ) would be a very good step in the right direction. IMHO....the sooner we get a better Big Man, the better.

    Of course, it would be nice to actually see what Pendegraph could do...but the mere fact that he's been injured all this time is frustrating enough...if not another discussion for another time.

    Thoughts anyone?
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    um, isn't it obvious. I keep having to remind myself that we are lucky to have Roy and that most teams don't even have one legitimate center. This is part of the reason that foster really just needs to be around for the playoffs to justify his contract.
    Last edited by spazzxb; 01-23-2012 at 05:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    It will be interesting to see how Frank plays it going forward after West/Tyler done a good job on the two Lakers 7 footers. I wouldn't be shocked to see more of a 3 man rotation with those two and Roy as an experiment until Jeff gets back. If they do good like tonight I can see us holding off and looking for a bigger impact piece if we make a move and roll the dice on Jeff's back, if they faultier I can see us adding a big body rebounder as insurance.

    Lou would be OK if he would stop shooting unless its a tip or a dunk attempt. He needs to realize he's doesn't have Nash and the running Suns offense setting him up anymore and he has next to no offensive moves. Even if he did manage to draw a foul on his wild drives to the hoop he's just a 46.6% FT shooter.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    As I've said again, Amundson is a backup PF and not a backup C. We need a solid 7 footer. And as the problem with Amundson is mainly offensive I'll throw this idea.

    Trade Amundson (and maybe a second round draft pick) and get Kosta Koufos. Now, I may as well be biased becaused I'm from Greece (although I'm anything but a nationalist when it comes to politics but anyway) but the guy can score.

    Just look at his per 36 stats -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/...koufoko01.html

    If he logged in 36 minutes he would have scored in double digits throughout his whole career and in the last 4 seasons he would average a double-double. He has an actual post game, he has a sweet Jumper (although he is worse at it lately with all the strength training) and he is way better than Lou on free throws. He is not a great man or team defender but due to his length he can get blocks and disturb a shot.

    He is also making 200k$ dollars less this year and his due to a one more year of contract worth of 3.2 mil. Still, he is 22 and could develop on a solid Center.

    Would Denver trade him? Yes, they would. He is the 3rd Center of the rotation behind Mozgov and Andersen. Also, his spot could be covered in Nene or Faried or even Harrington on some extreme situations as we already know that Karl likes his frount court to be "smaller" (ironically, he has one of the biggest teams but anyway).

    Would Denver trade him for Lou and a second round pick? They surely don't seem to believe in him to keep him. They could be tempted by this deal as it would free up some of their cap space and also get them a pick. Amundson is not better than Faried but as coach Karl dislikes playing rookies him not being a rookie could be a plus :P

    Would Koufos like this trade? Yes. It is clear that the Nuggets do not believe him enough. He would be quite happy to up his minutes to 15. He would also be closer to home.

    Would this be a good trade for the Pacers? Hell yeah. We would get a 7 footer who can score. He could even develop to a great backup Center for the time that Foster retires.

    So, there it is, I said it.

    I don't want to trade anyone from this team and I really like Lou despite his poor offensive showing for us but this trade would be really beneficial for us and would address our issues for a backup Center.

    If only it was to become reality, I would be so damn happy

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    getting koufos would be really good for us.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    I think we need a guy who can score a little bit at the backup five spot for when Foster is out, a third option in the second unit... Honestly, what we got from Rasho when he was a Pacer would be absolutely perfect at the backup five. If we could get production similar to that, than we are very good there.

    I don't even dislike Lou. He's a very athletic player and a good rebounder for the little amount of time he gets. Not to mention, he is smashmouth.

    We just need someone with some skill at the backup five. I have no clue who could bring what I am talking about.. Maybe old man Kurt Thomas, maybe Koufos, and perhaps even Mehmet Okur would do justice at the backup five if we could sign him for next season.

    Hell, maybe we're looking to draft the guy.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    One negative about Koufos is that he is not smashmouth enough.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Pero antic is who I'd love to get. Not many know the name or the player but he led Macedonia in the recent European basketball championship. His a similar player to gortat except he can shoot the three. His also got a heart of a lion and would be a perfect fit on this Indiana team. He has a low post game , can defend, rebound and won't back down from rivals. Look him up on google or if someone wants to post some videos of him as I am using my iPhone I am unable too. That's my two cents . Lol
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by SYDNEY MILLER AUSTRALIA31 View Post
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    Pero antic is who I'd love to get. Not many know the name or the player but he led Macedonia in the recent European basketball championship. His a similar player to gortat except he can shoot the three. His also got a heart of a lion and would be a perfect fit on this Indiana team. He has a low post game , can defend, rebound and won't back down from rivals. Look him up on google or if someone wants to post some videos of him as I am using my iPhone I am unable too. That's my two cents . Lol
    Pero Antic plays in Greece for Olympiacos (which happens to be my team). He has a one-year contract. He is not exactly a 7 footer but he is quite close and has a good frame. He is a very good rebounder. He has some range (not sure if NBA 3pt range but he certainly has long 2 range) and can certainly provide score off the bench. His post game has been kinda limited in Olympiacos and I really don't know why. He certainly is smashmouth.

    But can you pick a guy out of Europe without him getting into the draft?

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Pero Antic plays in Greece for Olympiacos (which happens to be my team). He has a one-year contract. He is not exactly a 7 footer but he is quite close and has a good frame. He is a very good rebounder. He has some range (not sure if NBA 3pt range but he certainly has long 2 range) and can certainly provide score off the bench. His post game has been kinda limited in Olympiacos and I really don't know why. He certainly is smashmouth.

    But can you pick a guy out of Europe without him getting into the draft?
    I'm pretty sure you should be able to , we done it with sarunus cabbages. Pero antic is also a hell of a passer which would complement our team concept of sharing the ball. I would love it, if we were some how able to sign him.
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by SYDNEY MILLER AUSTRALIA31 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure you should be able to , we done it with sarunus cabbages. Pero antic is also a hell of a passer which would complement our team concept of sharing the ball. I would love it, if we were some how able to sign him.
    Sarunas went to college in Maryland. It was a different case.

    He is an amazing passer, you are right. He also has the ability and the handles to drive and dish to an open teammate (at least on a Euroleague level because I'm not sure how his dishes out of drive will fare against the wingspan of a lot of wings at the NBA level). He is good at FTs and adept in getting to the line (although in a Tyler style). He is also good at pick n' pop.

    There is something that worries me though. Even in Europe, he prefers to play as a PF and not as a C. He can bang with bigger bodies, he likes to be physical, he has the body to be a C but offensively he is enamoured with the perimeter.

    Signing him would be good though. He would basically get here for free just to meet Larry Bird.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Sign me up for any of the guys mentioned here.
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    And I'm sure Larry bird would love to get him for free. Lol
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by SYDNEY MILLER AUSTRALIA31 View Post
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    And I'm sure Larry bird would love to get him for free. Lol
    Let's see.

    Pero has a contract that is worth 600k euros in Olympiacos. In dollars, that's around 780k$. Given that Olympiacos is not likely to even advance in the final 4 of the Euroleague this year and that the Pacers are looking to be a legitimate force in the East (but even if they were not, the appeal of the NBA is just enough) then I am quite sure that he could agree to get around 500k$.

    Still, this would basically be a steal.

    PS: I'm not sure if his otherwise strong body can adjust to an NBA level and pace but even if he doesn't he would get so little that it would be worth it to try it out at best.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Regarding the original question:

    If it's not, it should be. This team is a Roy Hibbert injury away from not even being competitive.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Joel Przybilla is gonna sign eventually I would like to add him

    We should of tried harder to sign Gustavo Ayon he is quick as hell and really active for being almost 250lbs. He is worth the gamble they are taking it slow with him in NOLA but I have liked what I have seen out of him so far.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Joel Przybilla is gonna sign eventually I would like to add him

    We should of tried harder to sign Gustavo Ayon he is quick as hell and really active for being almost 250lbs. He is worth the gamble they are taking it slow with him in NOLA but I have liked what I have seen out of him so far.
    Przybilla would be a great addition. The guy would fit in perfectly with this team. We're going to have to sell this team as a contender. We do have more money available to offer him than anybody else. I'd love to see that happen.

    Is he, for sure, planning on playing this year? I haven't heard much about him since he originally decided to sit out.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Yes it is a big concern, but it is a concern shared by every team in the NBA. name me one team that wouldn't love to bolster depth at the power forward and center position. Bulls have really nice depth, but I would guess their fans are worried about the lack of quality - top notch championship quality.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Joel Przybilla is gonna sign eventually I would like to add him

    We should of tried harder to sign Gustavo Ayon he is quick as hell and really active for being almost 250lbs. He is worth the gamble they are taking it slow with him in NOLA but I have liked what I have seen out of him so far.
    Though I'm not a fan of his offensive game, Przybilla would be a perfect addition to our team and it's "smashmouth" identity. He would be a great back-up C for Hibbert and add even more toughness to our team.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    name me one team that wouldn't love to bolster depth at the power forward and center position.
    The Nuggets have 4 Centers (Mozgov, Nene, Andersen, Koufos), 2 PFs (Harrington, Faried) and Gallinari who can fill in at the 4th in extreme situations.

    The Jazz have Jefferson, Favours, Kanter and Millsap.

    Those two teams are pretty deep when it comes to bigs. Especially, the Nuggets. Also, all of those players would make the rotation of any other team (Faried and Koufos would actually play more).

    Other than that, I agree with you.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Regarding the original question:

    If it's not, it should be. This team is a Roy Hibbert injury away from not even being competitive.
    I agree, but getting another Solo won't cut it. We need a center that can play there for 20+ minutes without putting the team at a disadvantage.

    BTW does anyone still think that Amundson or Pendergraph are a real upgrade over Solo, I don't. I was never a fan of giving McBob MLE money but for what he got, we should have tried to keep him. It's better for McBob to move on then to be an insurance policy for the Pacers but it would have been better for the Pacers to have kept him.
    I keep coming back to Kaman, he's overpaid for what he's doing on the Hornets but when he's given the minutes this year, he produces. I doubt if he stays with them next year when he's a free agent and I hate to guess what he value will be on the market but I think his price will go down next year. As long as we'd beat an MLE offer that would eleminate most teams from being able to steal him. This year we can afford the cap space to land him but I don't want to give away a core player for what may end up being a 1 year rental. I'd give up Jones, Pendergraph and a 2cd. at the trade deadline but I doubt if that would get it done.
    From what I understand a player signed during the offseason has a 90 waiting period before he can be traded again. I don't know if that applies to players traded during the season. The Hornets/Clippers trade went down around Dec. 15th. It may be at the trade deadline before Kaman can be moved again.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yes it is a big concern, but it is a concern shared by every team in the NBA. name me one team that wouldn't love to bolster depth at the power forward and center position. Bulls have really nice depth, but I would guess their fans are worried about the lack of quality - top notch championship quality.
    At least in relation to this frontcourt and the question at hand....I would love to have Omar Asik as the backup Center and Taj Gibson as the backup PF. I don't think that we need Championship caliber backups...just like the Bulls have "nice depth"....I'm just saying that we need better quality...at the very least at the backup Center spot. If you look at the Bulls, Taj Gibson would be considered an acceptable starter on a mediocre Team....but as the backup PF to Boozer....he's a solid backup PF on a Playoff/Championship caliber Team. Asik wouldn't be a starter...but he's a quality Backup Center that plays hard and provides solid defense ( much better than Amundson, at the very least ).

    By no means am I saying that we need a "super Backup Center", I'm saying that we need a much better quality Backup Center that can come in and "tow the line" as long as it takes ( roughly 15 mpg ) for Roy to rest and get back into the game.
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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Yep if Roy gets hurt we are done, I've been saying forever that we need another 7 footer.

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    Default Re: Is lack of Frontcourt depth at the Backup Center spot a concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep if Roy gets hurt we are done, I've been saying forever that we need another 7 footer.
    That's a revolutionary thought.
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