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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    I’m just going to go ahead and warn everybody up front tonight if you’re looking for deep thoughts and non-biased analysis of the game I suggest you skip my entire post.

    This may be the single biggest homer post I have ever done in my life and I don’t apologize for any of it.

    To say that this was a big win is like saying that beating the Japanese Navy at the battle of Midway was big. Yea, it kind of is that big in terms of our team.

    This win not only improves our record it does the one thing that no other victory (no matter how good or by how much) has done this season. It gives us legitimacy.

    This wasn’t just any team and this wasn’t in just any arena. Yes they are not nearly as good as they have been in the past and yes this was their third loss in a row. But this was only their second loss at home since they opened there (they had won 9 in a row) and we all know that they did not want to lose their third game. They also had no excuses for injury either, everybody who is somebody for them played. No I don’t think Steve Blake changes the game for them either, no more than Jeff Foster would have for us.

    But (and here is where I will lose some of you) what was the most impressive thing to me was that we not only had to battle the Lakers and their crowd but we had officials that were frankly giving them the benefit of every doubt in the first half and totally took us our of our game. To everybody’s credit we fought through and not only came back we over came them.

    Do you understand this; we overcame the Lakers and poor officiating to start the game. No Pacers team in the past decade could have done that. Yes, IMO, even the mid 2000’s teams would not have been able to recompose themselves to come back and win this game.

    Also this took this road trip from a losing west coast trip, which we are all used to, to a winning west coast trip which is a rarity for us. While I’m pointing this out I also want to point out that it took a total collapse on our part for the Kings to beat us in the first game so we could have swept the trip which when you think about is amazing. But that should not take anything away from tonight’s game.

    Maybe I’m just over hyped right now and maybe I’m just putting to much hyperbole on the game but I can’t help but believe that this game was a statement game. Not so much to the Lakers or maybe even not that much to the league, but this was a statement game for us. We can beat anybody anywhere when we play as a team, play aggressively on both ends of the court and share the ball.

    Let’s do tonight’s Odd thoughts in grade form.

    Roy Hibbert: A+ Herb Simon by all rights should just meet the team at the airport with a check in hand. Max player and tonight he showed why he will get that kind of money. When he comes back in the game we start the comeback. I kept saying during the 4th quarter Howard vs. Bynum my ***, it may come down now to Howard vs. Hibbert. Ok we all know who wins that but I’m telling you Andrew Bynum was outplayed tonight. His interview after the game was over when he said that they told him not to play but he told them he had to play to help the team only went so far as to secure himself in Pacers legend and lore. If we were all Klingons we would be writing both songs and opera’s about the heroic battle of L.A. where Roy of house Hibbert stood his ground against many armed only with a bat’leth and secured victory for the Pacers Empire. Roy tonight took the leap from good guy center who most people loved because he was really a nice guy and player to Roy Hibbert God amongst men who not only is a nice guy but is a fearless warrior who played through pain to help his team.

    Danny Granger: A I’ll not hear another word about this grade, well at least none that I will bother to take seriously. The only reason it’s not an A+ is because he missed so many shots. But his defense all night long was just out of this world good. I mean defensive player of the year good (at least for this night) and he had a pass in the paint to Hibbert for a score that to me shows how much Danny is really trying to change his game to be a bigger team player because he could easily have turned and fired that up. It would be easy to say that you don’t win that game without Roy and you would be right, but this like every game we have won this year has been a team effort because if Danny doesn’t block Bynum at the rim twice and he doesn’t hit those big three’s then you could argue you don’t win either. Also that one where he was called for a foul (I think it was vs. Barnes) was complete and utter B.S. He got all ball so he should have had 4 blocks and should have been credited for a steal against MWP.

    Paul George: A Dude was guarding Kobe “F’n” Bryant. Kobe got his 30 but took 30 shots to get it and I am pretty sure that he only scored 2 points in the 4th quarter. I know Hill had some of that but for Paul to come home and have to play against his idol and play as well as he did deserves big kudos. Also thank you for having the courtesy to dunk the ball tonight. I think David West got on him that last game and Paul tonight did not give us any of the dipsy doo scoop shots that he has been trying. Also he moved a lot on offense without the ball. The play where Collison hit that three on a pass from Roy was created because Paul was cutting and took Darren’s man with him. A far far cry from that Sacramento game.

    Darren Collison: A Ice water in his veins. Two free throws to get us the lead with all of the pressure in the world on him and he sinks both of them like they were nothing. His grade is higher because of his free throw shooting. Because he missed Danny on a wide open 3 on 2 fast break for a layup and instead threw it to Paul George for a three that he missed. But he did a decent job of at least outplaying the geriatric Fisher and while he turned the ball over more than you are used to getting from him he did a decent job of pacing the game in the second half.

    David West: B+ If I were grading by halves his first half would have been at least an A and the second half a B-. He was aggressive in the first half on the offensive end and kept us in the game. In the second half his offense went away but he had some very timely rebounds and did a very good job of keeping Gasol off of the scoreboard for the entire game, although Pau had a near triple double himself. This continues to be a terrific pick up for the Pacers in the off season. Far more than I ever expected it to be.

    Dahntay Jones: B+ Look I know there are a lot of you that don’t like him and believe me I understand why. But there are times when someone like him is exactly what the Doctor orders and tonight was one of those times. I think he played a very efficient game myself. He hit shots but just as importantly drew fouls and went to the line and made his free throws. 11 points in 14 min. is not bad at all and then he also gave you 5 boards with that. In fact this grade is really probably to low.

    George Hill: B He can thank the referee’s for that grade. They took him out of the game early on with at least one call that I could not believe they gave to him. However once again he proved to be our sharpshooter off of the bench and the reason I keep saying over and over again, we don’t need Jamaal Crawford. George is giving it all to you and great defense to boot. This trade was great for both teams but I believe that overall value as of today goes to us as he has been huge in several victory’s already this season. His three point shooting tonight was both timely and huge because it forced L.A. to step out and guard him.

    Tyler Hansbrough: C Obviously something is wrong. His eye is either still bothering him or I fear he may be having some long term issues with the vertigo from taking another hit to the head. But to his credit even though he couldn’t hit the ocean from a boat tonight he still went after the boards and the single most amazing thing was that we had him guarding Bynum whenever he and West were in together and Andrew did not back him down. He was able for the most part keep Bynum out of the lanes when he had him one on one. Also there was a funny moment when Troy made a lame attempt to try and get the ball off of a rebound from Tyler and Tyler just vice gripped it and Troy slowly backed away.

    Lance Stephenson: C Stop passing the damn ball to Lou. There is a reason he is open. I mean in a lot of ways it’s not Lance’s fault because he has thrown some beautiful passes that should have resulted in scores but the recipient is not the right person. Other than that hit his one attempt from the field and made his two free throws. He contributed to the team and as time goes on he may contribute more.

    Lou Amundson: D Lou Lou Lou…. Unless you have a wide open dunk please for the love of all that his holy pass the ball. I mean I love what he brings to the floor other than that. He is just a slightly shorter version of Foster so you get the same kind of play from him but just not on the same level. But Jeff has learned over the years to get the ball out of his hands as fast as he can and Lou needs to learn this. Josh McRoberts thanks you for the sportscenter highlight block he got.

    Frank Vogel: A+++ If he did nothing else other than stand over there and give them a pep talk when they got down it would have probably been good enough. But on top of that he made adjustments to the lineups tonight that he didn’t make in Sacramento and it paid off right away. I think so often we get wrapped up in the fact that this is such a nice guy and positive influence that we probably overlook the fact that the guy can really coach. He understands the game and obviously understands his players and that is all that you can ask for from a coach.

    Huge win, I mean mega huge win for this team.

    We are for real


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I’m just going to go ahead and warn everybody up front tonight if you’re looking for deep thoughts and non-biased analysis of the game I suggest you skip my entire post.

    This may be the single biggest homer post I have ever done in my life and I don’t apologize for any of it.

    I haven't read the rest yet but I already think this is a great post!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Wow, Hawk is really stacked in that photo.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    By the box score Tyler played 19 minutes and change without Roy on the floor tonight and during that period Bynum and Gasol just made one basket apiece despite both being on the floor at same time at points.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    To quote Peck from an Odd Thoughts about Roy I believe from Roy's rookie season:

    "He can fight, he can crow, by God he is the Pan!"

    It still cracks me up when I think about it the little random references Peck makes to make a point.

    Actually I found it thanks to the magic of the search function

    don't want to get caught up in the hyperbole surrounding him right now, but I want to say this.

    I love to watch Roy Hibbert play basketball. Frankly, it's just fun to watch.

    As to people complaining about him getting two boards off of tipping on the offensive end. Meh... Foster would lose about half of his rebounds if we only counted true rebounds anyway over the years so I think we can let Roy have these two.

    He is getting better on defense. He is not losing his player while chasing the ball like he did the first couple of games.

    He can pass, he can shoot, he can block and he can crow. By God, HE IS THE PAN!!!!
    Peck circa 2008
    Last edited by TheDon; 01-23-2012 at 02:37 AM.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Mike Wells post game tweets:

    Granger, "We come into arenas expecting to win, not as underdogs"

    Vogel, "This is what our team is all about. It's not about a super team or superstars. It's about a balanced attack."

    First let me say I LOVE hearing that coming from Danny. My God what a far cry we are from where we where just a year ago.

    Second how can you not love Frank? Honestly if you love Indiana Pacers basketball there is just almost no way you can not love Frank Vogel.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Second how can you not love Frank? Honestly if you love Indiana Pacers basketball there is just almost no way you can not love Frank Vogel.
    So . . . it seems you've made up your mind at last. I'll put it down in my little black book that you now like Frank better than Jim.

    (giggle, giggle, snort)

    By the way, I think this is my favorite Pacers team and I've been around for all of them! I just like a bunch of the players, and I haven't always thought that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    So . . . it seems you've made up your mind at last. I'll put it down in my little black book that you now like Frank better than Jim.

    (giggle, giggle, snort)

    By the way, I think this is my favorite Pacers team and I've been around for all of them! I just like a bunch of the players, and I haven't always thought that.
    The 94 team still holds a very special place in my heart as well as the 2000 team.

    But I said at the party the other night that this is the very first time I can ever remember not having at least one player on the team that I didn't care for.

    I like every one of our players. I get frustrated at times with a few of them but overall I'm with you this group is certainly one of my favorite groups ever.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    I'm still cracking up looking at Lou's 0-for-3 with 3 Blocks against in the boxscore. With Dwight Howard up next he might want to avoid shooting if #12 is out there.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    What a great win to end the West Coast trip with a winning record (imagine if we just won that Sacramento game that would one of the best West road trips in a long while for the Pacers).

    I think I can safely say that we also have one of the most solid starting units in the league, with all 5 getting it done on both ends of the court. The balanced scoring really helps especially at times when your primary options are missing shots. The team may not have the dominant scorer like other teams have, but if most of your guys are able to contribute well to scoring that really doesn't matter. Plus, they have shown a lot of toughness that was not present in previous seasons.

    I'm just disappointed that we are not getting more love after the win (the freaking highlights of the game are almost from the Lakers than from the Pacers!), and this has been happening even on the previous wins this season, but with the way the Pacers are playing right now, they are just so hard to ignore by the media.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    This was definitely a statement win for us. This is the first time in a long time we have beaten a quality team on the road, who was at full strength, and over came some adversity. The Lakers controlled the entire game, except winning time. And those guys are former World Champs. It was impressive to say the least.

    I'm starting to wonder if Roy Hibbert is just so bound and determined to be a great center that he just refuses to be denied. I just can't say enough about what he means to the team when he plays well. Maybe, just maybe, Roy Hibbert is gonna wind up being the star that our franchise has needed for so long. Everything falls into place when he plays well. And tonight he was huge in over coming early foul trouble, a broken nose with a bullseye on it, a large defecit, Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant. This game answered all of my questions about his mental toughness.

    West and Hill have been two great additions. But I think the additions of Jim Boylen and Brian Shaw might be a tad over looked. The team is clearly well coached. They bounce back well. The young players are obviously improving on their weaknesses. No one seems to be playing outside of the team. Every player is trying to execute the game plan. The team is playing hard and winning games. The overall morale of the team seems rather strong. I really like what I've seen and I think the coaching staff has played an enormous part in that.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    This was definitely a statement win for us. This is the first time in a long time we have beaten a quality team on the road, who was at full strength, and over came some adversity. The Lakers controlled the entire game, except winning time. And those guys are former World Champs. It was impressive to say the least.

    I'm starting to wonder if Roy Hibbert is just so bound and determined to be a great center that he just refuses to be denied. I just can't say enough about what he means to the team when he plays well. Maybe, just maybe, Roy Hibbert is gonna wind up being the star that our franchise has needed for so long. Everything falls into place when he plays well. And tonight he was huge in over coming early foul trouble, a broken nose with a bullseye on it, a large defecit, Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant. This game answered all of my questions about his mental toughness.

    West and Hill have been two great additions. But I think the additions of Jim Boylen and Brian Shaw might be a tad over looked. The team is clearly well coached. They bounce back well. The young players are obviously improving on their weaknesses. No one seems to be playing outside of the team. Every player is trying to execute the game plan. The team is playing hard and winning games. The overall morale of the team seems rather strong. I really like what I've seen and I think the coaching staff has played an enormous part in that.
    You are absolutely 100% correct and nobody is more guilty of that than I am.

    There can be no doubt that the addition of these two very talented coach's to our staff has elevated our play. Over the next few games I will make a point to observe their interactions with the team because as I've already stated you are right, we have just brushed them to the side when in fact we should be elevating them.

    Good post.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    You Did It Joseph!!!! AesopRockOn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    The bottom looks like he loves watching prawns die.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    You are absolutely 100% correct and nobody is more guilty of that than I am.

    There can be no doubt that the addition of these two very talented coach's to our staff has elevated our play. Over the next few games I will make a point to observe their interactions with the team because as I've already stated you are right, we have just brushed them to the side when in fact we should be elevating them.

    Good post.
    Really its just hard to see what assistants do. We see the results of the coaching staff as a whole but most the work that the assistants do is really done in preparation and practices. Vogel is the face of the coaching "team" and alot of the praise he gets is really for the whole coaching staff's work. Just like how no one(outside the organization) really knew who Vogel was until he got his shot.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    I feel that Peck nailed the in-game stuff so I just have to throw out something that made me quite happy (not as happy as the win itself but pretty happy indeed).

    I was not the only one around here that watched the game. I know of at least 4 more people that watched the game as well (one of them being a laker fan, another being an anti-laker and the other two who were just awake and would like to watch some ball). I don't know about you but knowing that 4 other people that I knew watched a Pacers game that started at 4.30 after midnight and ended at 7.00 in the dawn during exam season in effin' Greece says a whole lot about our team at the moment.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Roy Hibbert: ... If we were all Klingons we would be writing both songs and operaís about the heroic battle of L.A. where Roy of house Hibbert stood his ground against many armed only with a batíleth and secured victory for the Pacers Empire.
    LMAO - freaking classic man...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    I take back every negative remark I said Saturday night about Collison. He played well and was a big key why the Pacers won last night.

    Paul George defended Kobe rather well, he's not Shane Battier (who I think right now is the best Kobe stopper in the NBA) but George made Kobe work all night and I think Kobe was a little worn down towards the end of the game last night.

    I too think Brian Shaw deserves a lot of credit for this team's success even though I cannot pinpoint his direct contributions, but the sense I get is he's been huge. You also saw time and again last night how much the Lakers players respect Shaw - that was obvious from the lakers player interactions with Shaw last night.

    The biggest difference between the Pacers this year and in the past few is physical and mental toughness. I give the credit for that to three people. Vogel, West and Hill. Vogel for preaching and teaching smash mouth basketball and coaching in such a way as to give the players confidence. West for his on the court toughness in everything he does (and obvious leadership) and Hill for bringing the exact same thing. Hill and West generally play better in the pressure moments.

    Obviously Roy is a much better player than last season as is Georgeand I think Danny is trying to adjust his game to better fit into the new Pacers team, but overall the entire team looks and feels so different. I might even say it is sort of like comparing the 1993 Pacers to the 1994 Pacers. In 1993 (the year before larry brown), the Pacers were a soft rudderless team and and in 1994 the pacers became a tough physical confident team after hiring a new coach and bringing in A. Davis, McKey, B. Scott and Woody.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-23-2012 at 09:31 AM.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    The pomp and ceremony at the Peck household when the portrait of Roy is hoisted to hang next to the portrait of Dale at the Altar of Awesome must be seen to be believed.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If we were all Klingons we would be writing both songs and operaís about the heroic battle of L.A. where Roy of house Hibbert stood his ground against many armed only with a batíleth and secured victory for the Pacers Empire. Roy tonight took the leap from good guy center who most people loved because he was really a nice guy and player to Roy Hibbert God amongst men who not only is a nice guy but is a fearless warrior who played through pain to help his team.
    Who says we have to be Klingons?
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Got something for ya, Peck:

    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If we were all Klingons we would be writing both songs and operaís about the heroic battle of L.A. where Roy of house Hibbert stood his ground against many armed only with a batíleth and secured victory for the Pacers Empire.
    For anyone who uses Twitter I vote that from now on instead of using #PacerNation we use #PacerEmpire......love it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    $$$
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    I think Bird deserves some credit for putting some pressure on Vogel to get some good assistants.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Road Warriors

    Peck, this one time you being a homer is allowed. I loved every word of your thoughts. Even if some were misspelled.


    KEEP IT GOING!

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    Got something for ya, Peck:

    So obviously O'Brien should be getting a ton of credit because clearly he had the defense trending up. Green

    It's easier to maintain intensity and play defense both mentally and physically when the offense isn't so rushed it's causing easy baskets in transition for the other team.

    I'm pretty sure Peck's Altar of Awesomeness also includes a bust of Vogel brushing his teeth and twirling a basketball. ...as well it should.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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