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Thread: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

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    Default Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba...kept-secret-2/

    The fact that the Indiana Pacers rank fifth in the NBA with 44.6 rebounds per game and third in points allowed isn’t a fluke.

    For Indiana, that toughness on the glass and on the defensive end is part of the smashmouth basketball their head coach wants them to play with this season.

    “We want teams to feel like they were in a heavyweight fight after they played against us,” head coach Frank Vogel joked with the media this weekend. “We want to play physical inside and be the stronger team.”

    While Vogel may have made that comment in jest, the reality is Indiana takes great pride in being a mentally and physically tough basketball team.

    “We’re a tough team,” Paul George boasted. “The biggest thing that we have is everybody is in for one another. If somebody is getting a little too aggressive with one of our players, one of our players is taking it right back at him. That’s just an example of how we have each other’s backs out there on the court. When we’re all tied in together like we are, we’re a tough team to beat.”

    Solidarity is great, but playing smashmouth basketball is more than having each other’s back, playing stingy defense and gobbling up rebounds.

    For Indiana, it incorporates both sides of the ball, and the Pacers have done a great job reshaping their offense to open up easy scoring opportunities.

    “We completely reshaped our spacing so that on 99 percent of sets two bigs are at the basket,” Vogel told the media earlier this season. “One will be on the post or baseline with the other rolling to the basket. We are designed to be a strong offensive rebounding team.”

    Instead of relying on just their frontcourt, Indiana also has their guards penetrating the paint and attacking the basket while their bigs play through the post.

    “Part of our smashmouth attack involves playing with size and strength,” Vogel explained. “We want out guards attacking the basket. We want our bigs playing through the post. This summer we shaped all of our spacing so that we don’t have very many lifts sets where we have a big out near the three-point line. We try to have one of our bigs along the baseline or in front of the basket at all times and the other one is rolling.”

    While that may sound complicated the whole premise of the switch in the way Indiana’s offense was tweaked was done to make things more simplistic and basic.

    “We simplified things dramatically from the standpoint of putting more of an emphasis on spacing and constant movement,” Vogel said. “It’s a contrast to what we had in the past. I think a lot of those things allowed us to be more stable in our roles and better readers of an opposing defense. When you know where the other four guys on the floor are going to be at all times, it allows you to be a better reader of pin downs, pick-and-rolls and all kinds of action.”

    Along with being more stable, it’s also done with maximizing the strengths of the players currently on the roster.

    “We tried to structure our offense in a way that really took advantage of our personnel’s strengths,” Vogel explained. “Roy Hibbert is a good passer at the high-post, but we wanted him to become a dominant low-post threat and I think he has done that. We wanted that ball in Darren Collison’s hands to run the team in the early offense, on the break and in a great deal of pick-and-rolls. We shaped our spacing so that so that our power forwards weren’t lifted above the three-point line so that Tyler Hansborough could be more successful when he was in the game.”

    Besides shifting the offensive and defensive sets, there has been a huge change in the culture in the locker room.

    Instead of a single-minded approach to the game where players looked to stuff the stat sheet, Indiana has adopted a team-first approach that has seen Boston and Dallas win Championships.

    “Since I’ve taken over, all I’ve talked about is togetherness,” Vogel told me. “I never worked for Doc Rivers, but one of the greatest lessons I’ve learned in watching the Playoffs—and I’m one of those guys, I watch every single one of those games—and just following that team. When KG first got there, the culture changed, yes, but he used the word togetherness on an almost daily basis. I think that they won a Championship because of their team play, not because of their Hall-of-Fame talent. I just think that there is a strong message behind that so I put togetherness on the board every single day in practice, shoot-around and for games.”

    Besides being able to point at the success Boston has enjoyed, another great template for his team to look at was the Championship run made by Dallas last season.

    “I think another great lesson was Dallas winning a Championship last year,” Vogel raved. “The whole concept of a team beating any ‘Big Three’ is something I’ve preached to my team all year last year in the hopes that we would be able to upset Miami in the Playoffs.

    “We didn’t get matched up with them, but to see Dallas go through and do it, and do it with unselfishness and passing. Not just to do it against Miami, but to do it and sweep the Lakers. A two-time defending Champions. They swept the Lakers with tremendous passing and unselfishness. There is a tremendous lesson to be learned by that and it is something that I talk with my guys about all the time. When they share the ball they know they can be scary good.”

    Even though smashmouth basketball has lead Indiana to a 8-3 record and the praise of their head coach, it still isn’t something that fans clamor to see. Because of this the Pacers won’t find themselves playing on ESPN or TNT too much this season.

    Without the glare of the national spotlight, it also means that casual fans aren’t as familiar with the team.

    “That’s fine, we’re the best kept secret,” Roy Hibbert said at Friday night’s game on ESPN. “They can play Boston and Chicago on ESPN, but we’re the best kept secret. That’s fine with us.”

    Or, as George Hill said a bit more eloquently, there’s no reason to worry about people who throw bricks on you when you’re down.

    “We aren’t worried about the media giving us love,” Hill told me. “I mean, when the boat is above water, everybody is going to jump on. When it’s sinking they keep throwing bricks on you. We just need to focus on the guys in the locker room. The more we aren’t talked about the more we can sneak up on people.”

    Their brand of basketball may allow Indiana to sneak up on teams because they won’t show up on SportsCenter like Lob City or the Miami Heat do, but rest assured, teams won’t be quick to forget them after they get beat around like a heavyweight in a 10-round battle.

    Chalk it up to the war wounds sustained after going into battle against the Pacers and their version of smashmouth basketball.
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    “We tried to structure our offense in a way that really took advantage of our personnel’s strengths,”

    Get out of here with that talk about adjusting to your players strengths. What is Frank thinking, there is only one way to do anything and any deviation from that will prove to be a failure.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Love it. Love this team, and this coach. Proud to be a Pacers fan!
    BLUE COLLAR GOLD SWAGGER

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Would we say that this team....rides together?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Would we say that this team....rides together?
    I think Milwaukee is the only team that carpools to the arena.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    I think Hans is getting abused for this reason. I have seen an elevated numbers of fingers, hands, arms, elbows to Hans. This doesn't happen much to West or Hibbert. I just think Hans is getting the blunt of it all in return.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    How on earth did O'Brien and Vogel ever see eye to eye on anything during their tenure together?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    How on earth did O'Brien and Vogel ever see eye to eye on anything during their tenure together?
    I'm sure Vogel bit his own tongue alot!

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I'm sure Vogel bit his own tongue alot!

    Most people don't like to have their tongue bit. Which means if you keep your mouth shut, no one else can bite it.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I just think Hans is getting the blunt of it all in return.
    I think you are mixing up Tyler Hansbrough and Dale Davis
    BillS

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think you are mixing up Tyler Hansbrough and Dale Davis
    I'm sorry, not seeing your point?
    Added: never mind....just got it.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    How on earth did O'Brien and Vogel ever see eye to eye on anything during their tenure together?

    Getting a constant paycheck always helps.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Most people don't like to have their tongue bit. Which means if you keep your mouth shut, no one else can bite it.
    and If I said...I'm sure Vogel bit his tongue alot. Someone would say something like, why would Vogel bite Job"s tongue.

    or

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    I think Hans is getting abused for this reason. I have seen an elevated numbers of fingers, hands, arms, elbows to Hans. This doesn't happen much to West or Hibbert. I just think Hans is getting the blunt of it all in return.
    I've kind of wondered about this too. Continue to play our style but maybe lay off the constant we're a smash mouth team to the media.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    I would really like to know WTF is Vogel talking about? Letting the bigs play like bigs? Huh? ....

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would really like to know WTF is Vogel talking about? Letting the bigs play like bigs? Huh? ....
    I'm guessing he means rough and tough. Similar to our old Davis brothers...(I know they aren't related)
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would really like to know WTF is Vogel talking about? Letting the bigs play like bigs? Huh? ....
    Because our bigs had played like wings at times shooting from distance under the previous regime... He's saying let the bigs worry about the paint and the wings run the perimeter...

    It sounds like a duh statement when taken out of context...

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    I was been sarcastic guys

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    I've kind of wondered about this too. Continue to play our style but maybe lay off the constant we're a smash mouth team to the media.
    Agreed. No more talk about smash mouth or eventually someone is going to lose control and throw a punch. Already, Hans is taking some cheap shots from the competition. That's not going to get better as we keep thumping on teams...and you know he's not going to change his game. Guys don't like playing against him and frankly, I don't think they like him.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Agreed. No more talk about smash mouth or eventually someone is going to lose control and throw a punch. Already, Hans is taking some cheap shots from the competition. That's not going to get better as we keep thumping on teams...and you know he's not going to change his game. Guys don't like playing against him and frankly, I don't think they like him.
    Seeing a punch come out sometime this year seems to be what we are aiming for... Hasn't Vogel said that they are trying to irritate people? You will have that if you play physical basketball and are trying to get in the opponent's head... If we are gonna walk the walk we might as well talk the talk too... It irritates people even more...

  32. #22
    Since 1984 1984's Avatar
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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Not just smash-mouth, but depth. Over a year ago, I proposed the Pacers should become the like the Blazers of 90's.


    1984
    10-14-2010

    I invision the Pacers becoming like the Trailblazers of the late 1990's. They did not have superstars on their roster. Yet they had multiple players who were stars (Damon Stoudamire, Rasheed Wallace) and a roster that was deep with talented veterns (Jim Jackson, and Isaiah Rider). Granger is a better player than Rasheed Wallace was in the 90's and Collison could be better than Damon Stoudamire.

    The issue, in my opinion, is not developing stars. While I love Indiana, we all have to agree that it is not a "destination" to many 20-something multi-millionaires. After all, as revealed in the LeBron-apocalypse, there are more "money-making opportunites in cities like New York or Los Angeles. Therefore the issue is developing depth. We cannot and will not attract Carmelo to Indianapolis and build a superteam comparable to LeBron, Dwayne, and Chris. What we can do, however, is build a team that is so deep it causes matchup problems through endurance and diversity for teams. That was the challenge the Trailblazers created.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Danny Granger - 82games.com

    According to 82games.com, Danny Granger is holding opposing small forwards to PER's of 6.2 and an abysmal .298 eFG%.

    If those numbers are legitimate, there may not be a better defender in the entire league right now than Granger. At any position.

  35. #24

    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    I need to see more from this defense.. Last year when we beat the Heat we were ranked 4th in the NBA in defense.. I know we are much better this year! but 12 games is a small sample size.. Need to see much more from this team. If those numbers are true than I'm in shocked considering Lebron had a heck of a game.

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    Default Re: Smashmouth basketball working for the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Agreed. No more talk about smash mouth or eventually someone is going to lose control and throw a punch. Already, Hans is taking some cheap shots from the competition. That's not going to get better as we keep thumping on teams...and you know he's not going to change his game. Guys don't like playing against him and frankly, I don't think they like him.


    You are here to win and play hard not make friends.. Have you seen Wade play? dude does not GAF. He will break your arm if he has to win. Dude is heartless and plays the game hard. The way it's meant to play, He is probably my fav non pacer player. It's a treat to watch him play defense as well. Dude is heartless. Tyler seems to have that trait as well. Go 120 MPH and bang heads.

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