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Thread: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I can't say that starting Tyler over West is a completely bad idea, but I really love how Tyler "glues" the second unit together. West is good. I like him. I like Tyler. But I think what we have going here is working. Working VERY well. Maybe we can have him starting in situational reasons, but I can't see when that could happen.
    Yep at this moment I wouldn't want to mess up with the starting unit, either way Tyler is getting most of the minutes because West obviously is still trying to get in shape.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    I think Tyler is good enough to start but I want to wait for a bit more to see if West will get better or stay the same. Right now I think both are similar but I think Tyler plays better defense because alot of the time West looks really slow out there.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    LOL really you wanted to bench West because Tyler's defense is better

    West is a much better defender than Tyler IMO his 1v1 defense and help defense especially is much better than Tyler's
    Both Tyler and West are bad at rotating on defense, one is better than the other one in different areas on defense, but in general both are average at best.

    By the way I don't know if you saw Tyler's defense yesterday, he stole the ball from Bass hands and KG, he also had Ray Allen in front of him at one time and was stuck to him not letting him do anything, so yeah I don't think is that ridiculous.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-15-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    I really doubt Tyler cares whether or not he starts. And that's all that really matters to me. He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Everything is going pretty well the way it is. Why change now? If Tyler starts playing out of his mind, and in fact does look like he should be a starter, then so be it, start the guy. He will have earned every bit of starter minutes he gets. Until then, keep him where he is at. I mean its not like hes spoken about wanting to be traded bc on non starter minutes. He knows his role, and thats providing huge min off the bench, dominating second units.

    I say keep things the way they are, and I might be the biggest Hansbrough fan on this board. I was estatic when Pacers drafted him
    Last edited by CreekShow; 01-15-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Again I don't think is crazy to suggest to bring Dwest of the bench and leave Tyler in the starting unit because of his defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Both Tyler and West are bad at rotating on defense, one is better than the other one in different areas on defense, but in general both are average at best.
    yes I agree they are both average or close to it Tyler is worse IMO though. But you said Tyler would start over West because of his defense and I just find that hilarious

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I really doubt Tyler cares whether or not he starts. And that's all that really matters to me. He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.
    I actually think he is using that as motivation but yeah I agree with you.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    West is a much better defender than Tyler IMO his 1v1 defense and help defense especially is much better than Tyler's
    I can't begin to tell you how many times I have caught myself yelling at the screen because I could see that D. West was falling asleep on rotation. I could see the inevitable dunk or lay-up coming a many seconds before it happened. I really don't know how you could say that David's help defense is better than Tyler's.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep at this moment I wouldn't want to mess up with the starting unit, either way Tyler is getting most of the minutes because West obviously is still trying to get in shape.
    I haven't seen anything yet telling me that West isn't in shape.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    yes I agree they are both average or close to it Tyler is worse IMO though. But you said Tyler would start over West because of his defense and I just find that hilarious
    Maybe hilarious to you but not to me, I still think the same thing, Tyler showed yesterday and the day before yesterday what kind of the defense he is capable of playing, he also showed that last year during the playoffs by shutting Boozer down, while West has been average all his career, either way as many have said here we are good the way we are right now, we need West passing and ball movement in the 1st unit and Tylers offense in the second unit.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Tyler is best suited as the Sixth Man on this team. David is worthy of starting. Neither guy has disappointed in their roles.

    West has looked good and obviously, he's helped this team out in so many ways. It was the plan all along to have Tyler bring his energy off the bench.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    It doesn't really matter who starts,does it?I mean Tyler is averaging 25.7 MPG and West 27MPG.It's not like West is 'stealing' Tyler's minutes and progression.Besides,what TraderJoe said,i completely agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He gets to come in and beat the **** out of either a tired starter or a backup.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I haven't seen anything yet telling me that West isn't in shape.
    I have seen West guys out running him a lot of times and Vogel replacing him in the next timeout, that pretty much tells me that he is not in basketball shape yet, even West supporters have been saying the same thing in the game threads, either way I'm not really going to hate on the guy because of it, he didn't play for a long time and this was expected.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Maybe hilarious to you but not to me, I still think the same thing, Tyler showed yesterday and the day before yesterday what kind of the defense he is capable of playing, he also showed that last year during the playoffs by shutting Boozer down, while West has been average all his career, either way as many have said here we are good the way we are right now, we need West passing and ball movement in the 1st unit and Tylers offense in the second unit.
    shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


    I do agree with the bold though

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    I also think we should not mess with what we have right now. It is got us to 9-3 and the Philly game we were undermanned.

    I also believe Tyler could start, but does not need to right now. When this thread was started back in early December, we did not know that Tyler and West could exist on the court together. The only time I really want one of them playing over the other one is at the end of a close game. We need west in for that he is still a lot more clutch than Tyler.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


    I do agree with the bold though
    Did he have turf toe the first preseason game too?

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    shutting down Boozer?? You do realize Boozer had turf toe he kind of was useless the whole playoffs because of it.


    I do agree with the bold though
    Boozer had "turf toe" and Hans had a cauliflower ear for getting the knocked out of him so yeah not excuses from either side.

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    Default Re: Gamethread 12/20/2012 vs Bulls

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    This is just stupid talk comparing Klove to Tyler is just poor judgment

    the only thing that is comparable is they both play with energy besides that Klove is better in every other area of the game defense he is better passing he is 100X better rebounding he is 100X better. Shooting and post game he is much better that is unfair to Tyler to compare him to IMO a future HOFer
    I only meant this comparison in terms of their hustle and intangibles they bring every night. Sure Love is the superior player. But last year when I watched Love play I always thought, how is he producing these numbers? Its the same way with Tyler, how the heck is he producing these numbers ( that was back when he was getting the starters minutes at the beginning of the season and in preseason)

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    The only time I really want one of them playing over the other one is at the end of a close game. We need west in for that he is still a lot more clutch than Tyler.
    West is certainly clutch but Tyler is not a choker either. He did hit those FTs at the Atlanta game. I do agree that David is clutchier though and I'm glad we got both

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Tryin to figure out what would make an admin post a spiteful post like this.

    Two people making off-hand (semi-joking) comments that Roy should sit in favor of Hansbrough constitutes a majority? lol... I hardly think 99% of people on this board ever did or currently do believe Hansbrough should take Hibbert's place in the starting line-up.

    EDIT: However, if Roy came out and played like he did for large parts of the middle of last season, I might have entertained the idea. :P Luckily Frank Vogel happened.
    Spiteful ??????
    where was it spiteful ? where did i do anything but answer a challenge he posted?
    And no Peck at THAT moment in time was NOT joking, i have known him long enough to know he does not want a soft C under no circumstances, his cry was real
    and whether or not tyler would have to take it was not the question but read it as you want.

    VNZLA raised a flag, i raised and called, that is all
    Spitefull would be banning him for showing me up with a BS flag
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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Tryin to figure out what would make an admin post a spiteful post like this.

    Two people making off-hand (semi-joking) comments that Roy should sit in favor of Hansbrough constitutes a majority? lol... I hardly think 99% of people on this board ever did or currently do believe Hansbrough should take Hibbert's place in the starting line-up.

    EDIT: However, if Roy came out and played like he did for large parts of the middle of last season, I might have entertained the idea. :P Luckily Frank Vogel happened.
    I was trying to figure out why vnzla81 was having a conversation by himself, lol.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    We need ball movement in the starting lineup. And Tyler is just now getting that concept. He would "get his" more often off of the bench with Hill and other bench players.

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    West is the superior player, he does things that don't always show up on on the stat sheet. West has not been near as good as he will be, but he has been very clutch for us. I think West is only at about 75%, it takes time coming back from a major knee injury.

    The lack of a proper training camp has probably hurt West more than most of the players. They haven't said it, but it's my believe that the coaches are limiting West's minutes early in the season.

    I love what Tyler brings, but he's in the role he needs to be in right now. The thing that has impressed me about Tyler, is he still has very little real NBA experience. His rookie year was almost a complete waste (injury), his second season was half wasted by JOB's idiotic DNP's, he's still not had a proper training camp. Still there is no doubt he can play crucial minutes and be a main contributor on a really good team.
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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    In my defense this was said after watching the two pre-season Bulls games.

    Ok, so I'm eating my words about Roy.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: for vnzla (calling BS?? dumb move!)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Man I thought somebody stole my account.

    Regarding all the post that you quoted from me, I am still backing that up, is really West playing that much better than Tyler? same defense(bad defense) similar rebounding and similar points per game, yes I like the veteran dealership off the court but other than that meh, I have been right about West so far, Tyler is making 2mil and West is making 10mil, give me the guy with the same productivity for 8mil less.

    I also forgot that we are in PD of course some crazy people are going to say some crazy things, my bad for thinking that everybody here is rational, I should have known better after reading the "Westbrook thread" and the "we should bench Danny Granger thread" by bad on that one Able
    West doesn't look like he's completely recovered from his knee injury yet. I wouldn't expect him to be either. I don't expect him to be 100% until next season. Another full offseason should really help him out. He'll probably keep getting better as this season goes along though, and he gets his legs more underneath him.

    The reason you don't start Tyler Hansbrough over David West, is the same reason he never should have started last year either. It has nothing to do with the numbers. He just isn't a great fit with the other players that would be around him, compared to how he can play his role off the bench. Putting him in the starting lineup, negatively alters both the first and second units.

    When you look at the numbers, it doesn't make any sense either.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stda01&y2=2012

    West has had a horrible start to the season shooting the ball, at only 43.7%. Yet, he's still shooting 5% better than Tyler. On a per-36 basis, he's averaging 14.6 points per game, 9.1 rebounds per game, and 3.2 assists, compared to 16.4 points, 8.6 rebounds, and 0.5 assists for Tyler. Somehow, Tyler has 1 more turnover despite having 25 fewer assists.

    The only area where you can really say Tyler has been significantly better, is getting to the free throw line. At 7.1, he's getting 3.5 more attempts per-36 than West is. I think you'd lose a lot of that advantage if you put him in the starting line-up, considering he averaged 5.9 last year, but only 4.2 in games he started. His usage rate probably wouldn't decrease any, because when Tyler plays, he plays the same way no matter who he's with. However, I think it's fair to suggest that against the better/smarter defenders he'd see as a starter, he won't get to the line as much.

    No reason to even think about making this change right now. West is the better player, and is the better fit as a starter. Tyler is probably a better scorer off the bench, and should be kept in that role.

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