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Thread: Point Guard Update.....

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Lance Stephenson, who scored a career-high 12 points against the Hawks, will continue to get playing time, but it will be mainly at shooting guard.
    That's Frank's quote, with my highlight for emphasis. He didn't say Lance is a SG and will only continue to be a SG. He said he will get most of his minutes at the SG position. I wonder what other position he will get PT at?

    Let's not transform what Frank said.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Lance is as much of a point guard as Tyreke Evans, Westbrook, Rose, Monta, Curry and the rest of the other PG/G combos in the NBA, who cares what position he plays as long as he does a good job? as somebody else already mentioned, in reality this Pacers team doesn't really have a "pure point guard" they are all combo guards that play more like SG's than point guards anyway.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    IMHO

    I think Lance needs Foster on the floor. According to him, Foster really helps him on the court with piocks and where he should be on the floor

    I think its most important he plays with Jeff, especially if it means more nights like the onje against ATL
    Foster does help Lance a lot Foster is the only great screen setter on the team and not Djones at SF. He needs a shooter at the SF he can dish to when open which Djones clearly isn't. Paul George or Granger both fit well with Lance and his weaknesses.

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  5. #54
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    According to who? Not the head coach of the team.
    The guy who said Lance "demolished the Hawks," and had a better game than "stubby, non-athletic, turd of a player, AJ Price" has ever had in his NBA career.

    Also, the same guy who mocked the 60+ win "mighty Cavs," of 2009-2010.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    According to who? Not the head coach of the team.
    Huh? Then why is he playing him there at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to play him solely at SG then?

    He is pretty much a rookie, he isn't gonna hand the starting spot to him today. But the fact that he is 21 and getting minutes there when we have viable options already in place is a pretty positive sign that the staff indeed DOES think he is the PG of the future.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Huh? Then why is he playing him there at all? Wouldn't it make more sense to play him solely at SG then?

    He is pretty much a rookie, he isn't gonna hand the starting spot to him today. But the fact that he is 21 and getting minutes there when we have viable options already in place is a pretty positive sign that the staff indeed DOES think he is the PG of the future.
    I think that's a pretty big stretch.

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  9. #57
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    To play Devil's Advocate.....

    I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet....but let's look at the other part of the equation.....how this affects GH and what the best role that GH should be when he is on the floor.

    If the answer is that there is no difference to "who does what" on the floor when DC/GH/Lance share the floor...as in, it's irrelevant who is the actual "SG" or who is actually the "PG"....then it's a moot point as to whose the actual "PG" and "SG" and this change should not adversely affect the Guard rotation.

    However, if the answer is that DC/GH/Lance/AJ should fill specific roles ( as in, one is the "PG" that is running the point/directing the flow of the offense and the other is the "SG" doing whatever SGs do ) when any of them are on the floor because of their skillsets.....then the question becomes.....is the Team putting GH in the best position to succeed and contribute to this Team when he is on the floor when he is paired up with either Lance or AJ?

    In other words....IF it matters ( to a certain degree ) what role that each Player plays, GH is much better at being the SG then being a PG that is "running the point and directing the flow of the offense" and GH will be the "de facto" PG on the floor when he is paired up with Lance as the SG.......is Vogel putting this Team in the best position to win games?

    The reason I ask all of this is because I do not know who the answer is to fill whatever role that we are looking to fill out the Guard rotation....AJ or Lance.....all I care about is putting the best lineup on the floor that will fit what Vogel wants to do.
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-13-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    According to who? Not the head coach of the team.
    Did it occur to you that Lance might be getting more minutes at the 2 because the team needs better production from the backup shoot guard position. G. Hill may be looking to take all of the backup pg minutes. DJ has been playing SF a lot. You just assume that this meant anything negative abouts lances ability to play PG. It might just be about what is best for the team.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  11. #59

    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    The dude is a combo guard. Just like rest of our point guards like others have already pointed out. Hill is a combo and I don't think he does very well at all setting up the offense. When he plays next to Lance I think it works because he is basically splitting point guard duties with Lance, regardless of what their listed position is.

    AJ may be the most natural point guard on this team, but I still consider him a combo guard. Collison is a combo guard but he also runs the offense the best out of all of them at this point.

    I wish I would have never entered this discussion because it has been beat to death, but I don't see the obsession with labeling him one or the other. It is clear when he is one the floor, he plays both, regardless of his listed position.

    I'm just glad the tune of the forum has changed from Lance is a thug criminal who will never be good enough to be in the NBA, to a promising young, hard working talent with all the room for growth in the world.

    The idea for the future I believe is to have two combo guards on the floor at the same time, evidenced by the Hill trade. At all times in all of our line-ups we have two guys who play both the point guard and shooting guard roles outside of the starters. They are combo guards. So they are both. And they play both. Labeling them doesn't change the fact that when on the floor, even though he may not bring the ball up, Lance is both a shooting guard and a point guard. He will play on the ball and off the ball, just like Hill. They are basically interchangeable.

    And regardless of our view on this, I think we can all finally agree Stephenson taking minutes away from DJones can only be a good thing. DJones is the biggest black hole I've ever witnessed. At least Tyler has proven he can score at damn near an elite level in the post and is slowly becoming a better passer. DJones is a black hole and the dude has never proven he can score at near an elite level and I've never seen him make the effort to become a better passer like it is clear Tyler is trying to become. DJones gets the ball, thinks he is Kobe (though he does look like his little brother) and throws up terrible momentum killing shots.
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 01-13-2012 at 04:54 PM.

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  13. #60
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    The dude is a combo guard. Just like rest of our point guards like others have already pointed out. Hill is a combo and I don't think he does very well at all setting up the offense. When he plays next to Lance I think it works because he is basically splitting point guard duties with Lance, regardless of what their listed position is.

    AJ may be the most natural point guard on this team, but I still consider him a combo guard. Collison is a combo guard but he also runs the offense the best out of all of them at this point.
    I wish I would have never entered this discussion because it has been beat to death, but I don't see the obsession with labeling him one or the other. It is clear when he is one the floor, he plays both, regardless of his listed position.

    I'm just glad the tune of the forum has changed from Lance is a thug criminal who will never be good enough to be in the NBA, to a promising young, hard working talent with all the room for growth in the world.

    The idea for the future I believe is to have two combo guards on the floor at the same time, evidenced by the Hill trade. At all times in all of our line-ups we have two guys who play both the point guard and shooting guard roles. They are combo guards. So they are both. And they play both. Labeling them doesn't change the fact that when on the floor, even though he may not bring the ball up, Lance is both a shooting guard and a point guard. He will play on the ball and off the ball, just like Hill. They are basically interchangeable.
    I highlighted the part that I find relevant. How important is it to have someone that can properly "setup the offense while directing the flow of the offense"?

    If this is important, then isn't it better to have the better Guard options filling that role when they are on the floor?

    When DC is on the floor....he's the best Player to do this. The question then centers around whether GH, Lance or AJ is next best suited to "setup the offense while directing the flow of the offense" when they are on the floor.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I'm just glad he finally didn't look like he was going to swallow his tongue in a real NBA game.....
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    There is another way to figure out what position he is playing:

    When AJ Price doesn't play Lance plays, when Lance gets hurt AJ Price plays, yep is not that hard to figure out what position he is playing.

  17. #63

    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I have the distinct feeling after watching the Hawks game that there is going to be a direct correlation between how well Lance plays and how much he acts like a complete dumba$$ on and off the court. I still can't believe Bird drafted Artest pt. 2.

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    Most combo guards are short shooting guards. lance isn't an undersized two, he can just play both positions.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    And regardless of our view on this, I think we can all finally agree Stephenson taking minutes away from DJones can only be a good thing. DJones is the biggest black hole I've ever witnessed. At least Tyler has proven he can score at damn near an elite level in the post and is slowly becoming a better passer. DJones is a black hole and the dude has never proven he can score at near an elite level and I've never seen him make the effort to become a better passer like it is clear Tyler is trying to become. DJones gets the ball, thinks he is Kobe (though he does look like his little brother) and throws up terrible momentum killing shots.
    How exactly is that clear? The dude does still have just 2 assists on the season.

    Edit: Also Dahntay Jones has only 6 in 177 minutes. That is awful, but Hansbrough only has 2 in 263 minutes, which is pretty awful as well.

    Yes, he is a power forward. I get that. Strangely, David West, the other power forward, has 26 in 273 minutes.
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 01-13-2012 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    How exactly is that clear? The dude does still have just 2 assists on the season.
    Easy! He had zero. Now he has two. Improving!

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  24. #67

    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    How exactly is that clear? The dude does still have just 2 assists on the season.
    You're hate for Tyler never ends does it? He has made SEVERAL nice passes he was not even able to make last year as technically a rookie. There has been plenty of times this year I've seen Tyler make a pass he wouldn't or couldn't have made last year. Most of them ended up being missed shots on the receiving end, but that has more to do with our horrible shooting thus far and less to do with Tyler trying to improve.

    Tyler has also admitted passing as his biggest weakness and has said he is working hard on it. And we know when Tyler says he is working on something he really is. There has been several nice passes as well that may have not led to an assist, but they led to another pass that led to the assist.

    So it is obvious the dude is trying to become a better passer. Is there any evidence to support that DJones, a veteran already set in his ways, is working on his passing? I think not.

    We all know what Tyler brings, and it isn't passing. Him slowly becoming better at passing can only be a good thing.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    There is another way to figure out what position he is playing:

    When AJ Price doesn't play Lance plays, when Lance gets hurt AJ Price plays, yep is not that hard to figure out what position he is playing.
    Except the combo guard is Hill.

    When Lance wasn't playing, Hill played the two. When Lance is playing, Hill is going to play the one (when he's in with Lance)

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    He has made SEVERAL nice passes he was not even able to make last year as technically a rookie.
    Technically, he was not a rookie last year.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I highlighted the part that I find relevant. How important is it to have someone that can properly "setup the offense while directing the flow of the offense"?

    If this is important, then isn't it better to have the better Guard options filling that role when they are on the floor?

    When DC is on the floor....he's the best Player to do this. The question then centers around whether GH, Lance or AJ is next best suited to "setup the offense while directing the flow of the offense" when they are on the floor.
    In my opinion, AJ is the second best at setting up the offense. So AJ and Collison are the only guys who could play next to a true SG like Dahntay at this point in time.

    But I don't think it is that important to have a guy that exclusively sets up the offense from the bench role. Thus why I think Hill and Lance will work really well. Neither is great yet at setting up the offense, but they are both decent. I think Lance has the ability to set up the offense better than any of them, but he is a few years away from that I'm afraid.

    So I don't think it is necessary at all to have a guy that sets up the offense exclusively when you have two guys that are scoring threats that can do it adequately, especially off the bench. Now if we didn't have Collison, I think it would be more of a problem.

    So to answer your question, it is not as important to have a true point guard from the bench squad when you have two adequate combo guards.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I cannot believe you guys have such a big problem with Lance being a PG that you can't even recognize that he plays both.

    It's so weird. It's like Lance playing PG phsyically hurts you or something.

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  30. #72

    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Technically, he was not a rookie last year.
    Eh, I'm typing a lot right now. My brain is mixing around the context of how I want to use words. I guess I should have said practically. Both end with ically lol. But still no one can deny this is pretty much his first year truly in the rotation.

    And if you added up the games and minutes he played his first two seasons, technically he was still a rookie last year. I guess technically he was, but technically he wasn't. I guess it depends on how one uses the word technically in this instance. Are we talking about actual seasons, or actual games and minutes played, because technically, it could be considered either. LOL
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 01-13-2012 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I hate how this board loves combo guards. Calling Lance a combo guard is like saying McRoberts was a point forward. Having the ability to pass does not make you a combo guard or mean you can play PG.

    I would hardly say Hill is even a combo guard, he is just a SG who has been forced to play PG in the past. That doesn't make him a combo guard as far as I am concerned. The only combo guard I see on this team is Collison, he is the only player on this team who has the skills to be both a PG and a SG. While Price is the only pure PG, yeah he can slide over to SG but by that definition every PG is a combo guard.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Eh, I'm typing a lot right now. My brain is mixing around the context of how I want to use words. I guess I should have said practically. Both end with ically lol. But still no one can deny this is pretty much his first year truly in the rotation.
    I would deny that pretty emphatically. Another good word ending in "ically."

    With the exception of the month of December (which still is incredibly strange) he was in the rotation all of last year as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Eh, I'm typing a lot right now. My brain is mixing around the context of how I want to use words. I guess I should have said practically. Both end with ically lol. But still no one can deny this is pretty much his first year truly in the rotation.

    And if you added up the games and minutes he played his first two seasons, technically he was still a rookie last year.
    They say he was essentially a rookie last year. Tyler had more than half a season of rotation minutes last year, many starting.

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