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Thread: Point Guard Update.....

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I still don't get what the big deal about whether or not you call him a 1 or a 2.

    The style at which Lance plays isn't going to change. The only difference is that Lance won't have the ball in his hands as much.
    Well, he was playing this way against Atlanta, and he had the ball in his hands quite a bit.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    We're told constantly that DC is a SG in a PGs body. GH also plays the two.

    So from where I'm sitting, we have 4 players that play both PG/SG depending the situation, and bickering back and forth between who is a PG and who is a SG is just a way to bicker back and forth.

    It doesn't change anything on the basketball court.
    It's important because Lance is just very clearly not a point guard. It's a lot easier for someone who has been a point guard to slide over and play the two than for someone who has been a 2 or even a 3 all his life to slide over and play the 1. I fully expect to see a lot more games from Lance like what we saw on Wednesday now, and that should make us all happy.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I was against the Lance as a PG until Isaw him this year. 1 or 2 it doesn't matter to much to me. Lance/Hill or AJ playing the 2 spot when the match-up is favorable should work well. I would like to see Lance get more time and him splitting at the 2 for let's say 5-10 minutes a game depending on performance that day could help him get more and more acclimated to the NBA style of game. Watching him physically this year makes me think he could guard even the largher 2's because of his strength. The only thing that I could see concern with guarding 1's is can he get around screens fast enough to defend and that is not a biggie to me because DC has a difficult time with that. I have been surprised with our guards at the 1 this year and as the year goes on I see them getting better and better as they gel.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    IMO, Lance looks at his absolute best when he gets to play between Hill and Paul. That's his ideal situation.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Well, he was playing this way against Atlanta, and he had the ball in his hands quite a bit.
    He also brought the ball up the floor quite a bit against Atlanta. It was pointed out to you in the postgame thread.

    There was one point in the game where GH had the ball, Vogel called out a play from the sidelines, and GH immediately swung the ball to Lance and then they started their set.

    I do however agree that Lance started playing off the ball more, and I do agree that it helped him.

    He slowed down, that's for sure, but he was still playing the same style. Just looked a lot more comfortable doing it.

    IMHO it probably had more to do with taking pressure off of Lance, and just let him play, rather than worrying about running the team.

    But this back and forth on whether or not Lance is a PG or a SG is just pointless. He's both.

    EDIT: And I honestly don't care about where 82games says he plays. The style at which players play determines what type of player they are, not where they're listed on the lineup card.

    I don't care how many times JOb played DJones at the 4. He's still not a PF, and he never will be.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-13-2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He also brought the ball up the floor quite a bit against Atlanta. It was pointed out to you in the postgame thread.

    There was one point in the game where GH had the ball, Vogel called out a play from the sidelines, and GH immediately swung the ball to Lance and then they started their set.

    I do however agree that Lance started playing off the ball more, and I do agree that it helped him.

    He slowed down, that's for sure, but he was still playing the same style. Just looked a lot more comfortable doing it.

    IMHO it probably had more to do with taking pressure off of Lance, and just let him play, rather than worrying about running the team.

    But this back and forth on whether or not Lance is a PG or a SG is just pointless. He's both.
    Well the coach seems to think he's a shooting guard, so I'm gonna roll with that. The only time that really sticks out to me as Lance bringing up the ball court was off a long inbounds pass where Hill ended up taking the ball out based on how Hawks play went.

    Yes, it is absolutely clear that the way it works is that Hill is to get people in the right spots offensively, and just let Lance worry about being Lance. Don't make him worry about making sure everyone's spacing is correct, or anything like that. Once that is setup, Hill was dumping the ball to Lance just the same way you'd see any other ball dominant shooting guard get the ball. It maximizes Lance's talents and minimizes his exposure to his weaknesses.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Well the coach seems to think he's a shooting guard, so I'm gonna roll with that..
    Well JOb thought DJones was a PF. He also thought Dunleavy was a PF. And Posey.

    Does that mean you do too?

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Honestly, after reading the whole thread, it seems like some of you are still fighting the Lance is a shooting guard thing, even after our head coach has come out and said it. I don't get that at all so maybe it's just best I back out of this thread, because that honestly just seems like disagreeing about it to try and cause a problem once Vogel has basically said that Lance is a shooting guard and it is my opinion that Frank has always considered Lance a shooting guard.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Well JOb thought DJones was a PF. He also thought Dunleavy was a PF. And Posey.

    Does that mean you do too?
    Do you really wanna compare Vogel to O'Brien? Be my guest.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Not meant to argue. Bout to go to lunch anyways, so I'm bowing out of here for a bit.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And Posey.
    He who should not be named didn't consider Posey a PF. He considered him to be the greatest thing this side of Troy Murphy.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    He who should not be named didn't consider Posey a PF. He considered him to be the greatest thing this side of Troy Murphy.
    James Posey was all things to all men.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    IMO, I only want to see Lance on the floor with Hill. He just looks comfortable when he has Hill next to him.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    We're told constantly that DC is a SG in a PGs body. GH also plays the two.

    So from where I'm sitting, we have 4 players that play both PG/SG depending the situation, and bickering back and forth between who is a PG and who is a SG is just a way to bicker back and forth.

    It doesn't change anything on the basketball court.
    Basically all it ends up saying is that one of Collison, Hill, or Price will be on the court at pretty much all times. They aren't going to run a lineup of Stephenson and 2 of George, Granger, and Jones very often.

    As you said, especially when Hill and Lance are on the floor together the roles can be pretty interchangeable.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    James Posey was all things to all men.
    Except to those who had the privilege of watching the great Dale Davis.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I just thought the big clue to Lance's obvious switch in position on Wednesday was that he was clearly looking for his shot when he would beat his man, as opposed to his time at point guard he would look for the pass when he'd beat his man. You could actually say this is one heck of a well coached kid to flip the switch that quickly.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I just thought the big clue to Lance's obvious switch in position on Wednesday was that he was clearly looking for his shot when he would beat his man
    And it was stated Lance is putting in a lot more work with shooting coach Billy Keller.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    I'm so busy anymore that it might come off as ducking, but as an "anti-Lance" voice I wasn't trying to dodge his play the other night. It was much better, though still filled with the items that make him playing as the PG a problem.

    Moving the floor control to Hill (or Price) helps because those 2 players have the clearest sense and interest in seeing the floor directed. Collison is more of a scoring PG, which I don't mind that much giving his shooting and quickness with the ball.

    Lance wants to make passes, but he shows little skill or interest in seeing the big picture of all the guys moving 4-5 stages into a play. If he can hit jumpers and makes buckets off of drives then he'll function as a DeRozen type of SG.

    He doesn't strike me as a pure shooter and shows a lot more interest in driving himself into difficult shot attempts (like the up and under layup he hit vs ATL).


    The positives I liked from Lance in the ATL game:

    1) The crossover into a step back jumper. That's a shot that will be there for him, if he can keep it silky it will be an attack point for the 2nd unit.

    2) The behind the back pass to Tyler. Not for the fancy aspect but because it put Tyler in great space which allowed him to then drive baseline. He missed the shot but it wouldn't have been an assist due to the dribble anyway. Regardless his part of that play was excellent.

    3) The long pass he came all the way across the court to steal. That was much better defensive awareness from him. At first I didn't realize it was him because I'm not used to seeing that.


    I'd still like the things like the alley-oop to Tyler (which Tyler salvaged) and the constant crazy layups to go away. The crossover stepback was a lot more simple but is a lot more reliable too.



    Of course with anything like this, it's one game. He's going to get his best shot to play to his strengths. I hope he takes advantage of it.


    ps - DJones took something of a step back so it would be nice to have an alternate option.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Lance's skills: He can break down a defender and get to the hoop. He can tell if someone's open, and he has the tools to make the pass to get them the ball. And, as periodically shown, the guy has a mid-range shot that might be the best on the team.

    What Lance struggles at: He doesn't always choose the right pass to get them the ball. He forces too many passes. He doesn't necessarily see the pass that leads to the assist (though I feel that can be developed). He also sometimes goes too fast, tries to rush things or does the complete opposite - dribbles too much.

    I think Lance's skill set is of a playmaking SG. He has some developing talent in isolation situations. I want to say he has a little Ginobli in him. That doesn't mean he has that kind of talent or is that level of player....but that's probably the guy he needs to study.

    Here's some Ginobli highlights by the way, including a beautiful block on KG at around 2:10 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBLdQMI4TJM

    Down the road can he develop into a PG? Well, do we need him to? A good scoring guard that looks to get others involved can play with any type of PG in the league.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    For Lance to succeed they need to just let him play with his instincts. He's the only player you can clear-out and run ISO plays for so why not let him do it. He's a player like Von Wafer or Gilbert Arenas (pre-injury). Just give him the ball and get out of the way.

    He'll be better in this role. He also is a willing passer and is pretty good at passing off the dribble so if he drives and draws a double-team, he'll try to hit the open man.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Lance is a playmaker. He makes passes and gets assists, as well as scores. He just isn't smart passing the ball in most instances, making ridiculous passes and getting away with them. When they work, they are great. But eventually teams will pick up on them.
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    IMO, I only want to see Lance on the floor with Hill. He just looks comfortable when he has Hill next to him.
    IMHO

    I think Lance needs Foster on the floor. According to him, Foster really helps him on the court with piocks and where he should be on the floor

    I think its most important he plays with Jeff, especially if it means more nights like the onje against ATL
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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Honestly, after reading the whole thread, it seems like some of you are still fighting the Lance is a shooting guard thing, even after our head coach has come out and said it.
    I think it is be queen people have gotten so used to SGs playing PG in the NBA that people have forgotten what a PG really is.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Lance's future clearly lies at the point guard position, but I understand taking it slowly. Having him split play-making duties with a 6'2" combo-guard will ease the load for him.

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    Default Re: Point Guard Update.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Lance's future clearly lies at the point guard position, but I understand taking it slowly. Having him split play-making duties with a 6'2" combo-guard will ease the load for him.
    According to who? Not the head coach of the team.

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