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Thread: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Tough decision for Larry. Obviously Roy's past performance does not indicate that he can be consistent at this level of play. But my gosh if Larry decides to wait until the season is over he will for sure have to max him out. Tough gamble, do you try and offer him a couple million per year below the max on an extension? What if he falls off the face of planet again after 20 games?
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Tough decision for Larry. Obviously Roy's past performance does not indicate that he can be consistent at this level of play. But my gosh if Larry decides to wait until the season is over he will for sure have to max him out. Tough gamble, do you try and offer him a couple million per year below the max on an extension? What if he falls off the face of planet again after 20 games?
    With roys attitude and work ethic its a no brainer but if larry waits its because the market will be down for roy since most teams won't have the money to offer him a contract above 12 million a year. I think larry waits and sees if roy can maintain his numbers and if he drops off we get him for a better deal than signing him now.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    And wasn't nearly half of this board wanting Gasol over Hibbert before the year started? Hibbert was our most valuable player last year and is again this year. Any time you have a big with his skill set, you MUST be patient and allow him to develop.

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  7. #56
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Put 5/60 on the table right now and then cross your fingers Roy signs it.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    ok, i'm confused.

    25% of 58.8 is $14.7M. is next year's salary cap lower?
    That's because the max isn't 25% of 58.8. Don't ask me why not. From Larry Coon's old FAQ:

    "They use a different cap calculation to determine the maximum salaries, which is based on 48.04% of projected BRI (instead of 51%). For example, even though the actual salary cap for 2005-06 is $49.5 million the 0-6 year maximum salary is $12 million, not $12.375 million."

    I'll wait to see Larry Coon's new FAQ before treating anything as definitive though.

    Interestingly, Marc Gasol didn't get a max deal as some have reported. His starting salary is $12.9m, which is below both the $14.7m and $13.6m figures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Put 5/60 on the table right now and then cross your fingers Roy signs it.
    By the new rules, we can only offer a 4 year extension. If Roy doesn't get extended, we can offer him a 5 year deal next year.

    So our choices are: 1) Sign him to a 4 year extension before Jan 25; 2) Sign him to a new deal when free agency opens next year (with a max length of 5 years); 3) Match another team's offer sheet for him (with a max length of 4 years).

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Put 5/60 on the table right now and then cross your fingers Roy signs it.

    I agree. At the rate he's progressing, he could be averaging something like 17/11 next season. There will be several teams willing to offer him the farm next season if he stays an UFA. I wish we could lock him up.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    And wasn't nearly half of this board wanting Gasol over Hibbert before the year started? Hibbert was our most valuable player last year and is again this year. Any time you have a big with his skill set, you MUST be patient and allow him to develop.
    I think Hibbert/Gasol is a wash, but I know half the board wanted to get rid of Hibbert during the Chicago series.

  13. #60
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    With roys attitude and work ethic its a no brainer but if larry waits its because the market will be down for roy since most teams won't have the money to offer him a contract above 12 million a year. I think larry waits and sees if roy can maintain his numbers and if he drops off we get him for a better deal than signing him now.
    You're kidding right? Teams are prepping cap space for next season like it's 2010 all over again.

    Just counting the teams that will have cap space for one MAX player:

    Dallas, Boston, Houston, New Jersey, Cleveland, New Orleans, Sacramento, Toronto, Philadelphia (if they amnesty Brand), Washington (if they amnesty Lewis)

    That's a third of the league, and I'm probably missing some teams (like Minny and Denver, which will have their own RFA's to sign). What's more some of those teams (like Dallas and NJ) could probably get space for TWO max players.

    CP3 is already off the board (he picked up his option year with the Clippers), once Dwight and Deron goes (possibly to the same team), who do you think teams are going after next. One way or another, Hibbert's getting paid.

    That's why I favor an extension now rather than wait-and-see. Even if we keep our cap space open for next season, the amount is going to be piddling compared to most of these other teams. Cap space is valuable when it's a scarce resource - however, that doesn't appear to be the case for the near future.

  14. #61
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    There is one more consideration on offering him an extension, even to the max you can do perhaps but at least at a very high amount/exception 5th etc

    It shows Roy you want him.

    Not doing that makes you just one of the bidders next year, with a bloody asterix at your name for not offering a reasonable extension.
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  16. #62
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    That's because the max isn't 25% of 58.8. Don't ask me why not. From Larry Coon's old FAQ:

    "They use a different cap calculation to determine the maximum salaries, which is based on 48.04% of projected BRI (instead of 51%). For example, even though the actual salary cap for 2005-06 is $49.5 million the 0-6 year maximum salary is $12 million, not $12.375 million."

    I'll wait to see Larry Coon's new FAQ before treating anything as definitive though.

    Interestingly, Marc Gasol didn't get a max deal as some have reported. His starting salary is $12.9m, which is below both the $14.7m and $13.6m figures.
    Gasol did receive a max starting salary and max annual raises, but not the max length.

    For purposes of this Section 7 only, the Salary Cap shall be calculated in accordance with Article VII, Section 2, except that the percentage of Projected BRI to be utilized for such calculation shall be 42.14% for all Salary Cap Years. Notwithstanding the foregoing, (i) the Salary Cap for the 2011-12 Salary Cap Year for purposes of this Section 7 only will be $51.689 million, and (ii) the Salary Cap for the 2012-13 Salary Cap Year for purposes of this Section 7 only will equal the greater of (x) the Salary Cap as calculated pursuant to this Section 7(f), and (y) $54.675 million.
    This is what the max structure will (likely) look like this year and next:



    (In order for the Max cap to be higher than $54.675 next year, the league would have to do somewhere around $4.2 billion, which is possible, but unlikely.)
    Last edited by count55; 01-13-2012 at 08:15 AM.

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  18. #63
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Thanks count. Nothing beats having our own resident cap expert

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    There is one more consideration on offering him an extension, even to the max you can do perhaps but at least at a very high amount/exception 5th etc

    It shows Roy you want him.

    Not doing that makes you just one of the bidders next year, with a bloody asterix at your name for not offering a reasonable extension.
    While I agree with the sentiment, whatever happens we won't be "just one of the bidders" - Pacers will own RFA rights, with the ability to match any offer.

  19. #64
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    And wasn't nearly half of this board wanting Gasol over Hibbert before the year started? Hibbert was our most valuable player last year and is again this year. Any time you have a big with his skill set, you MUST be patient and allow him to develop.
    I was one of those.

    I'm quite thrilled that Roy is proving me wrong. I love Roy, always have. His personality is irresistable.

    However, he still needs to prove two things:
    - that he doesn't drop off the second half the season like last year
    - that he shows himself to be solid in the final minutes of games

    If he proves to be able to accomplish those two things, I will gladly eat large plates of crow.
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    However, he still needs to prove two things:
    - that he doesn't drop off the second half the season like last year
    I don't think we'll see that one now that we have a coach that doesn't crap on his performance when he's playing like a beast....
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  21. #66
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    In todays paper the article on Hibbert said no discussions are taking place on Roy's contract extension. I see four reasons why.

    1--Maximum cap flexibility
    2--RFA(Pacers can match anything and will)
    3--Next year can offer a 5 year deal which ties Roy up longer at a lower rate for an additional year
    4--Possible block buster trade this year
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  22. #67
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    In todays paper the article on Hibbert said no discussions are taking place on Roy's contract extension. I see four reasons why.

    1--Maximum cap flexibility
    2--RFA(Pacers can match anything and will)
    3--Next year can offer a 5 year deal which ties Roy up longer at a lower rate for an additional year
    4--Possible block buster trade this year
    ...or Roy's agent has said he will not sign an extension at this time and prefer to negotiate a new contract after the season.
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  23. #68
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    This article?

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...shape-his-game

    The Pacers have until Jan. 25 to offer Hibbert a contract extension. He will be a restricted free agent if the sides don't agree to a deal by then. Pacers president Larry Bird said earlier this week the team has not begun talking about a new deal with Hibbert.
    The rest of the article probably deserves its own thread. Interesting stuff about Hibbert's mindset change and strength training.

  24. #69

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    You're kidding right? Teams are prepping cap space for next season like it's 2010 all over again.

    Just counting the teams that will have cap space for one MAX player:

    Dallas, Boston, Houston, New Jersey, Cleveland, New Orleans, Sacramento, Toronto, Philadelphia (if they amnesty Brand), Washington (if they amnesty Lewis)

    That's a third of the league, and I'm probably missing some teams (like Minny and Denver, which will have their own RFA's to sign). What's more some of those teams (like Dallas and NJ) could probably get space for TWO max players.

    CP3 is already off the board (he picked up his option year with the Clippers), once Dwight and Deron goes (possibly to the same team), who do you think teams are going after next. One way or another, Hibbert's getting paid.

    That's why I favor an extension now rather than wait-and-see. Even if we keep our cap space open for next season, the amount is going to be piddling compared to most of these other teams. Cap space is valuable when it's a scarce resource - however, that doesn't appear to be the case for the near future.
    I have broken down the teams before and the reason why I think Hibbert won't have a huge market to get a max contract from another team. I'll post it again but its in the Hibbert extension thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Here is a list of teams and how much is on the books

    1. Celtics (35 mill)- Tough to know what they will do but they need a big. Good news is that Bass will opt out of his final year and they may need to retain him.

    2. Cavs (32 mill) - Have Vaj and Gee but could use more IMO. Gee is a FA

    3. Dallas - Can't see them making enough room

    4. GSW - Could amnesty Biedrens to make room but doubt it.

    5. Rockets - Could cut Dalembert but doubt it

    6. Wolves (31 mill) - Have to resign Love to the max to cap space will be used up. Also have to resign Beasly and Randolf.

    7. Nets - Could offer a lot but already have Lopez who needs to be resigned if Howad deal falls through.

    8. Hornets (30 mill) - Have Okafor and need to resign Gordon

    9. Trailblazers - Hard to believe they have capspace but Roys injury helped them to free up some cash along with Camby.

    10. Kings (34mill) - Have JJ Hickson as a FA and already signed Hayes.

    11. Spurs - Could free up money with not resigned Duncan and using the amnesty of Jefferson

    12. Raptors (40 mill)- Doubt they are players.

    13. Wizards (40 mill). Need to resign McGee and have Blatche. Young could leave as well.

    Big Man FA's in 2012...

    1. Hibbert RFA
    2. Kaman FA
    3. Camby FA
    4. Tim Duncan FA
    5. Hawes FA
    6. McGee RFA
    7. Hickson RFA


    The only ones that scare me on that list of teams that could offer HIbbert a lot of money is the Celtics, Nets and to a lesser extent the Cavs.

    Looking at the big men available for next year I would have to believe most teams would go after a unrestricted FA before they offered HIbbert a large contract. I think we are safe.
    The red are the teams that worry me and certainly Jersey can be in the running but overall I think given a RFA versus a FA they choose a guy like Kaman over Hibbert because they know they can get him.

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  26. #70
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I have broken down the teams before and the reason why I think Hibbert won't have a huge market to get a max contract from another team. I'll post it again but its in the Hibbert extension thread.

    The red are the teams that worry me and certainly Jersey can be in the running but overall I think given a RFA versus a FA they choose a guy like Kaman over Hibbert because they know they can get him.
    Sorry, missed your post

    Guess we just read the market differently though.

    Dallas will certainly have enough room. They plan to go after Deron and Dwight. They'll salary dump one of Marion or Haywood, and amnesty the other. Of course, they'll go after a UFA first, but failing that? Agreed on Celts and Cavs as other major threats.

    GSW can't amnesty Biedrins because they already used up their amnesty card on Charlie Bell (which was stupid). Rockets will certainly cut Dalembert though - he's been awful. Raptors desperately need a C - they're counting on their rookie Valanciunas but who knows how fast he develops. You didn't mention the Sixers, who would have max cap space if they amnesty Brand (and frankly I think they should), and they really need a reliable C more than anything else (unless they decide Hawes is their guy). Don't sleep on the Wiz - they badly need a culture change, and Hibbert is a Georgetown guy.

    Just look at this past offseason when there were 3-5 teams going after the 3 major C's on the market. All three ended up with contracts starting at over $12m, and even DeAndre Jordan ended up with a nice payday.

  27. #71
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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    I give Roy a lot of respect when he said that he didn't want to discuss the contract extension right now and will prefer to do this after the season. It just shows that he is focused on his playing performance rather than worrying about how much money her will make in the future.

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  29. #72

    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Sorry, missed your post

    Guess we just read the market differently though.

    Dallas will certainly have enough room. They plan to go after Deron and Dwight. They'll salary dump one of Marion or Haywood, and amnesty the other. Of course, they'll go after a UFA first, but failing that? Agreed on Celts and Cavs as other major threats.

    GSW can't amnesty Biedrins because they already used up their amnesty card on Charlie Bell (which was stupid). Rockets will certainly cut Dalembert though - he's been awful. Raptors desperately need a C - they're counting on their rookie Valanciunas but who knows how fast he develops. You didn't mention the Sixers, who would have max cap space if they amnesty Brand (and frankly I think they should), and they really need a reliable C more than anything else (unless they decide Hawes is their guy). Don't sleep on the Wiz - they badly need a culture change, and Hibbert is a Georgetown guy.

    Just look at this past offseason when there were 3-5 teams going after the 3 major C's on the market. All three ended up with contracts starting at over $12m, and even DeAndre Jordan ended up with a nice payday.
    The counter argument to this point is that the 2011 class was one of the weakest ever. The 2012 class with its RFA and FA is one of the stronger classes overall.

    I mean look at it... Does Roy Hibberts name stand out among this list?
    Eric Gordon
    Dwight Howard
    Deron Williams
    Roy Hibbert
    Russel Westbrook
    Tim Duncan
    Kevin Love
    Kevin Garnett
    Brook Lopez
    Chris Kaman
    Jason Terry
    Ray Allen
    Spencer Hawes
    Steve Nash

    In the 2011 class it was..
    David West
    Nene
    Tyson chandler
    Marc Gasol

    I think Roy will get paid but I have looked at the teams in detail and many have pretty big holes to fill outside of the center position and their own RFA to resign as well.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 01-13-2012 at 02:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Roy Hibbert on NBA TV postgame

    Quote Originally Posted by edc View Post
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    I want to hear the reaction of bill simmons with the new development of roy hibbert. He wants the pacers to trade hibbert for bynum of the lakers.

    No way.
    Does he know that Hibbert isn't white?

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