View Poll Results: Where would you rank DC? 1 being the best, 30 being the worst.

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  • 1-5

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  • 6-10

    1 0.85%
  • 11-15

    50 42.37%
  • 16-20

    39 33.05%
  • 21-25

    25 21.19%
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Thread: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

  1. #51
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I ranked DC 16-20, because while you can argue that Brandon Jennings is better, I can agrue that he isn't. It's that way for about 10 players on the list, Jennings, Nelson, Holiday, Ridnour, Caulderon, etc.

    Who you prefer, really doesn't matter, because there isn't a spits worth of difference between them.

    They all have their glaring flaws, and they're all so far out of the top tier, that it really doesn't matter.

    The fact that you rank, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them higher than DC is more telling than anything.

    I understand putting half above DC, I understand putting 3/4s above DC, but every single one of them?

    That tells me more about you and your opinion of DC, more than it does about your opinions on the rest of the PGs in the league.


    Okay, so let's pretend that we swap out DC for any one of the other questionable PGs. What does that do to the Pacers? Does it take them to a different level?

    No. Any team with Jose Caulderon has their starting PG is going to have PG troubles, just like any team that starts Darren Collison.



    People who don't like DC are more likely to rate him under all the question marks. People who like DC are more likely to rate him above all the question marks.

    At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter, becaue which ever one they choose can't match up with the top tier PGs so you're screwed regardless.

    I just feel sorry for people who are constantly negative. Must be a ****** life to lead, to be so critical on almost every freaking topic.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-11-2012 at 12:54 PM.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I'd probably put Collison in the 15-20 range right now. He looked like a future All-Star talent when we acquired him, but he's been somewhat disappointing. He's a solid player, sure, but he's nothing more than solid.

    One important thing to remember: Collison has already proven he can put up big numbers on a sub-par team. Let's keep that in mind when looking at some of these statwhores.

    Brandon Jennings - Take away D.C.'s shooting touch and what do you get? Brandon Jennings. A shoot-first point guard who can't hit the broadside of a barn. That's a recipe for success. But, hey, he once score 55-points as a rookie, so he must be really good! So goes the thought process of people like Mackey.

    John Wall - Highly inefficient and massively turnover prone? Exactly what I'm looking for in a point guard! Empty numbers produce little W's. Washington's record since drafting Wall? 24-67. His basketball IQ probably qualifies him for the Special Olympics. Stephon Marbury, eat your heart out (not literally, Stephon...)

    D.J. Augustin - About on-par with D.C., but Collison's numbers are slightly better, and he has one less year of experience, so I gave him the edge. Also, despite their listings, D.C.'s actually a full 2" taller than Augustin (Collison's 6'1.5" in shoes, one of the few players taller than his listed height).

    Jameer Nelson - Basically, an older version of Augustin. Very similar production to Collison, but he's less than a month from turning 30 and is on a downswing, giving D.C. the edge.

    Mario Chalmers - Good backup, but starting material he's not. D.C.'s clearly superior, and anyone claiming otherwise is irrational.

    Mike Conley - He's a local kid, so there will be people here who swear he's destined for the Hall of Fame (he'll go in with the same class as McBob and E.J.), but the reality is he's been very mediocre. His production is inferior to Collison's, and he's had two extra seasons to develop.

    Raymond Felton - Has accomplished diddly-squat in his career. Lots of losing, very ho-hum numbers, and inefficient shooting (41% FG, 33% 3FG). He's probably already passed his peak.

    Jarrett Jack - Inferior to D.C. across the board. Not by a large margin, no, but inferior nonetheless. Significantly older + inferior production? No-brainer.

    Kyle Lowry - Right now he looks like a potential All-Star, sure, but seven measly games does not trump five seasons of mediocrity. I'd probably take him over D.C., but it's not a lock. Remember:Collison put up 19/9/4 with excellent shooting numbers in 37 starts as a rookie. Put him in Lowry's position (read: on a terrible where he can dominate the ball), and there's no reason he couldn't put up those numbers again.

  4. #53
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I ranked DC 16-20, because while you can argue that Brandon Jennings is better, I can agrue that he isn't.
    You'll win that argument with ease.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    i think you're missing a very important point.

    in the NBA, all the players are pretty good players regardless of where they rank. the fact that there are lots of good PGs means that the standard for being an above average player is higher. the 25th best player at a position is the 25th best player no matter what his skills are.

    either DC needs to get better or AJ needs to get better or lance needs to learn how to play or the pacers will be playing a below average player at the point. and if the pacers want to compete for the ECF, they will need a better player at the 1.
    I didn't miss the point; I disagreed with the logic behind it. If teams were only as good as their weakest link, then Miami wouldn't have made it to the Finals with a PG rotation of Chalmers, Arroyo and Bibby. The Lakers wouldn't have won with Derek Fisher at point. If Paul George were better, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Likewise if Danny Granger were on Durant's level, or Roy Hibbert on Dwight Howard's. It doesn't seem fair to single out Collison.

    Would we really be a better team with Rodney Stuckey? Does Jrue Holliday make us a championship-caliber team? Is Raymond Felton the missing piece to an NBA dynasty?

  6. #55
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    By the way I went to look at Brandon Jennings stats and his numbers don't look as bad as people think, just look at his numbers:

    17.8 ppg 6 apg 3.1 rpg 1.9stl and shooting .416, that's not bad.

  7. #56
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Funny, I was thinking this the other night. Collison gets his stats and has his moments, but I agree with Mackey with the exception of Brandon Jennings/Jameer Nelson. I like Collison, but he is a back-up on a championship caliber team...not a starter.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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  9. #57
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I can see there being an argument saying he's anywhere from 16-20, or 21-25. He's probably somewhere in that range, he just doesn't play a style that I like.

    However, those saying he's in the top half of the point guards in the leagues have some elaborating to do before I could even consider something like that. Defensively, how many of them are worse than Collison? Very, very few.

    Also Since86, my life is awesome.

  10. #58
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Can we let the guy play a full year under one coach? He has had zero stability in his career. Our offense is terrible right now, the lock out really set it back. DC has obviously improved, especially on defense. Im not making any calls on the kid 9 games into a shortened season running a new systeam with new teammates.

  11. #59
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I've come to the conclusion long ago that Mackey is a troll with a purpose.. He will **** on our team when we do well or poor. He wasn't around after we have won games and he does not post anything unless we are losing. He makes situations seem much worse than they really are.. The first time he posted about the team was after the Miami game when posters were going ape ****..

    Not only is he cynical beyond repair, but he does not know how to distinguish fact from opinion, and he does not care about the Pacers at all... So he can **** on them with no remorse. He cares about Josh and that is why he has been here. Since we have made such a terrible decision to not retain him, he has continued to ridicule Foster, call Lou a pony tailed weirdo, and call Roy a pansy... I have Mackey on ignore so I won't get a response.

  12. #60
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Wait, just realized, you didnt rank McBob above collison

  13. #61
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    I've come to the conclusion long ago that Mackey is a troll with a purpose.. He will **** on our team when we do well or poor. He wasn't around after we have won games and he does not post anything unless we are losing. He makes situations seem much worse than they really are.. The first time he posted about the team was after the Miami game when posters were going ape ****..

    Not only is he cynical beyond repair, but he does not know how to distinguish fact from opinion, and he does not care about the Pacers at all... So he can **** on them with no remorse. He cares about Josh and that is why he has been here. Since we have made such a terrible decision to not retain him, he has continued to ridicule Foster, call Lou a pony tailed weirdo, and call Roy a pansy... I have Mackey on ignore so I won't get a response.
    You will get a response.

    I went on vacation from Christmas until the 3rd. It was a great trip, thanks for noticing my absence. Warms my heart.

  14. #62
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I'd probably put Collison in the 15-20 range right now. He looked like a future All-Star talent when we acquired him, but he's been somewhat disappointing. He's a solid player, sure, but he's nothing more than solid.

    One important thing to remember: Collison has already proven he can put up big numbers on a sub-par team. Let's keep that in mind when looking at some of these statwhores.

    Brandon Jennings - Take away D.C.'s shooting touch and what do you get? Brandon Jennings. A shoot-first point guard who can't hit the broadside of a barn. That's a recipe for success. But, hey, he once score 55-points as a rookie, so he must be really good! So goes the thought process of people like Mackey.

    John Wall - Highly inefficient and massively turnover prone? Exactly what I'm looking for in a point guard! Empty numbers produce little W's. Washington's record since drafting Wall? 24-67. His basketball IQ probably qualifies him for the Special Olympics. Stephon Marbury, eat your heart out (not literally, Stephon...)

    D.J. Augustin - About on-par with D.C., but Collison's numbers are slightly better, and he has one less year of experience, so I gave him the edge. Also, despite their listings, D.C.'s actually a full 2" taller than Augustin (Collison's 6'1.5" in shoes, one of the few players taller than his listed height).

    Jameer Nelson - Basically, an older version of Augustin. Very similar production to Collison, but he's less than a month from turning 30 and is on a downswing, giving D.C. the edge.

    Mario Chalmers - Good backup, but starting material he's not. D.C.'s clearly superior, and anyone claiming otherwise is irrational.

    Mike Conley - He's a local kid, so there will be people here who swear he's destined for the Hall of Fame (he'll go in with the same class as McBob and E.J.), but the reality is he's been very mediocre. His production is inferior to Collison's, and he's had two extra seasons to develop.

    Raymond Felton - Has accomplished diddly-squat in his career. Lots of losing, very ho-hum numbers, and inefficient shooting (41% FG, 33% 3FG). He's probably already passed his peak.

    Jarrett Jack - Inferior to D.C. across the board. Not by a large margin, no, but inferior nonetheless. Significantly older + inferior production? No-brainer.

    Kyle Lowry - Right now he looks like a potential All-Star, sure, but seven measly games does not trump five seasons of mediocrity. I'd probably take him over D.C., but it's not a lock. Remember:Collison put up 19/9/4 with excellent shooting numbers in 37 starts as a rookie. Put him in Lowry's position (read: on a terrible where he can dominate the ball), and there's no reason he couldn't put up those numbers again.

    I agree with most of this with the exception of Kyle Lowry, John Wall, and Raymond Felton. Lowry is a MUCH better defensive player who also pushes the ball very well in transition. Raymond Felton played on A LOT of bad teams in Charolette, but he is also a tad better defensively while excelling at pushing the ball in transition and getting his team easy looks. John wall, though he's struggled through the first 8 games this year, was the number 1 pick for a reason. He is far and away more talented right now than DC could ever be. Does he need to work on his decision making? Sure. But would you rather play with Blatche, Young, and Lewis OR Hibbert, Granger, West?

  15. #63

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    DC is being underrated too much. His stats may not be all-star caliber, but he's been solid and instrumental to the current 6-3 record. He has improved his defense with his ability to disrupt fastbreaks, has been distributing the ball better and has been showing on-court leadership. There are maybe 15-20 better PGs than him, but right now, he's been doing his job well overall and if he keeps on improving, he can probably bring better stats to show.

  16. #64
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Damn some people are really sensitive in this blog, wow, is either you better be in our collective rose colored glasses side or else.

  17. #65
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Now that you are bringing that last part up I would really like to know were our other players are compared to the rest of the league, Roy is probably the only one in the top 10 I would think.
    Hibbert- top 6 C
    Granger- top 10 SF
    Stephenson - Top 5 scrub lol

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  19. #66
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Hibbert- top 6 C
    Granger- top 10 SF
    Stephenson - Top 5 scrub lol
    Top 5 scrub yeah I think is funny and I like Lance.

  20. #67
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I put DC 10th -11th in the league as long as he continues his play he has shown this year. There are some so called stars *cough Wall cough* that is supposedly better, yet he sure doesn't show it on the floor.

  21. #68

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I agree with most of this with the exception of Kyle Lowry, John Wall, and Raymond Felton. Lowry is a MUCH better defensive player who also pushes the ball very well in transition. Raymond Felton played on A LOT of bad teams in Charolette, but he is also a tad better defensively while excelling at pushing the ball in transition and getting his team easy looks. John wall, though he's struggled through the first 8 games this year, was the number 1 pick for a reason. He is far and away more talented right now than DC could ever be. Does he need to work on his decision making? Sure. But would you rather play with Blatche, Young, and Lewis OR Hibbert, Granger, West?
    In Wall's case, his main problem is not he's not that great of a floor general yet, as evidenced by his number of turnovers. And his style of play is more on carrying the scoring load than facilitate the offense. And his inefficiencies in scoring is one of the reasons their losing. Not saying he's an inferior PG to DC, but as a PG he's a disappointment. A high-caliber PG makes a team full of scrubs at least decent.

  22. #69

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I didn't miss the point; I disagreed with the logic behind it. If teams were only as good as their weakest link, then Miami wouldn't have made it to the Finals with a PG rotation of Chalmers, Arroyo and Bibby. The Lakers wouldn't have won with Derek Fisher at point. If Paul George were better, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Likewise if Danny Granger were on Durant's level, or Roy Hibbert on Dwight Howard's. It doesn't seem fair to single out Collison.

    Would we really be a better team with Rodney Stuckey? Does Jrue Holliday make us a championship-caliber team? Is Raymond Felton the missing piece to an NBA dynasty?
    i agree that it is unfair to blame DC for the pacers issues. if paul george was kobe and danny granger was KD, then it wouldn't matter. but since they aren't, it does. to make the ECF, you have to have superior talent in a couple/three guys [like miami] or lots of really good guys [lakers]. i get that.

    but the pacers do not have a top 10 guy, much less 2 or three of them. that means they need more guys that are top 10 at their position to make up for the lack of a star player. the pacers are not going to the ECF with 3 above average guys and a couple of below average guys. they need everyone to be above average to make up for no one being special.

    FWIW, i see danny and david as top 10 guys at their position. roy is looking like he is joining those two. paul, lance, DC, tyler and GH are not there yet. right now they are just guys. if the pacers are going to contend, they need to get much better. maybe they will, i hope so.

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  24. #70

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I need to change my vote... I'm with Mackey on this. There is only 1 or 2 from his list that I think are worse.

    It is a position we really need to upgrade. I think DC is the perfect back up for us.

    DC is playing better so far this year, but even if he reaches his potential I don't think we can win a championship, let alone a playoff series against an elite team with him.

  25. #71
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I agree about keeping Jarrett Jack that was a mistake letting him go.

    also people saying Augustine isn't better needs to watch him play. He plays the game the right way and is really efficient at the position.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 01-11-2012 at 01:56 PM.

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  27. #72
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Can someone name a team that had/has someone as good as Darren Collison as their backup point guard? Preferably one where the backup isn't a rookie.

  28. #73

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I voted 21-25 and thats a bit harsh but the poll didn't factor in age and salary which are very important to a team like the Pacers.

    DC gets crapped on a lot around here but I don't think he is as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Like Kemo and others have said I think he needs more time and regardless I think the Pacers should take a pg in this years draft.

  29. #74
    Member LoneGranger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Mackey you make a good point (although I too would disagree with a few of your choices) But the overall point and the real question is whether Collison is good enough to be our starting point guard. Good enough to be a starting point guard on a championship caliber team?

    The answer to that question IMO is clearly a big no. I have always believed in order to be a championship caliber team you need a dynamic perimeter player. It can be a point guard, it can be a shooting guard it can be a small forward, but it has to be on the perimeter.

    We do not have that and I am sure Granger is not it, and I am not confident that Paul George can develop into that type of player.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seem that what you're saying is not that Collison isn't good enough, but that one of the three (Collison, George or Granger) isn't good enough right now for the Pacers to win a championship. If I'm reading that right, doesn't it then follow that, without improving from where he is now, Collison could be the starting point guard on a championship team?

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  31. #75
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Winner View Post
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    I would even take Holiday and Nash off of that list too. I think at the end of the year, Jrue and Darren's stats will almost be the same and Darren runs the offense better. And, Nash is really old.
    Jrue Holiday is one of the best pg defenders DC is not. People seem to forget basketball is a 2 way game.

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