View Poll Results: Where would you rank DC? 1 being the best, 30 being the worst.

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    1 0.85%
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    50 42.37%
  • 16-20

    39 33.05%
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    25 21.19%
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Thread: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

  1. #26
    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I guess I just don't see the point of making a thread basically saying "Hey! Everybody! Come hither! Look how sh*tty I think our starting Point Guard is!" when he's a young, improving starter on a team that's 6-3.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Yeah I wouldn't take Chalmers or Stuckey over DC, Chalmers to me looks good because he is playing with the big 3 and Stuckey's talent is better than DC but his attitude sucks, not sure about Jason Kidd he just looks really old this year, everybody else yeah, I would trade DC for any of the other PG's mentioned.

    Nash, Calderon, Felton, Ridnour and Harris would be in the top of my list of point guards that I would like to acquire.

  4. #28
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Wow...I would say dc is better than:
    Nelson: he isn't ever healthy
    Other than 08-09 when he had his shoulder surgery, he's averaged more than 71 games per season. That's not terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Harris: guy isn't as good as people think.
    Neither is Collison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Teague: I know he is getting better but come on man.
    I'm interested to see what happens tonight. I think Teague will end up being the better player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Chalmers; you have to be kidding me.
    No, I'm not. This is similar to Ridnour. A lot of the time, he's playing off the ball. I think him and Collison are pretty similar, but I prefer Chalmers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Kidd: he's ancient If someone slit his throat dust would come out.
    He's old, but he's still effective. I think a Collison for Kidd swap would make this team a top 4 team in the conference this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Stuckey: yeah he isn't a pg.
    He is for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Jennings: yeah just terrible.
    He's struggled shooting the ball, obviously, but the guy has the skills to be a much better distributor than Collison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Evans: he isn't a point guard.
    He is for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Augustine: I would actually probably rather have dj.
    Uh...ok.

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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    You can't have a star at every position, you know. If Darren Collison is your weakest starter, you have a very solid team.
    That's the point, WE DON'T HAVE AN STAR IN ANY POSITION, reason why Mackey is bringing the point that for us to compete we need at least a pretty good player in every position.

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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    I guess I just don't see the point of making a thread basically saying "Hey! Everybody! Come hither! Look how sh*tty I think our starting Point Guard is!" when he's a young, improving starter on a team that's 6-3.
    Rose, Holiday, Rondo, Irving, Augustin, Williams, Wall, Westbrook, Felton, Parker, Lawson, Paul, Nash, Conley, Curry.

    That's 15. Which of those do you think are less "sh*tty?"

  9. #32
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Mackey you make a good point (although I too would disagree with a few of your choices) But the overall point and the real question is whether Collison is good enough to be our starting point guard. Good enough to be a starting point guard on a championship caliber team?

    The answer to that question IMO is clearly a big no. I have always believed in order to be a championship caliber team you need a dynamic perimeter player. It can be a point guard, it can be a shooting guard it can be a small forward, but it has to be on the perimeter.

    We do not have that and I am sure Granger is not it, and I am not confident that Paul George can develop into that type of player.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-11-2012 at 11:28 AM.

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  11. #33
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I just think the starting PGs 15-25 is so debatable that we should wait and let DC develop. Not that it is a huge factor, but let's also keep in mind all of the coaching changes DC has been through in his young career. DC has improved his game and become a leader now that the Pacers have become more stable with the roster and coaching staff.

    This thread suggest we have one of the worst starting PGs in the NBA when I think most people consider DC a young promising PG in the league.

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    There are at least 17 by my count who are far, far better. Unquestionably so.

    After that, you get into the D.J. Augustine, Jameer Nelson, Rodney Stuckey, Brandon Jennings types. Personally, I'd rather have those guys but I can at least see an argument. As for putting D.C. in the top 15, that I cannot see any argument for.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I would like to see a list from the people that voted 11/15, there is no way that DC is top 15.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Rose, Holiday, Rondo, Irving, Augustin, Williams, Wall, Westbrook, Felton, Parker, Lawson, Paul, Nash, Conley, Curry.

    That's 15. Which of those do you think are less "sh*tty?"
    Do you see anyone saying, "he is the best point guard on the planet..."? No. He is a solid starter, nothing more nothing less.

  17. #37
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
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    I view these guys as better than him:
    C. Paul
    D. Williams
    Rose
    Rondo
    Nash
    Westbrook
    Parker
    D. Harris
    Irving
    Holiday
    Jennings
    Wall
    Curry

    The rest i view as toss ups and mainly prefer our guy over another. The grass usually isn't greener like we can sometimes think it is with the rest of the league.
    I agree with everyone on this list but Jennings. He's still riding a lot of hype from his rookie season, but has been pretty terrible since then.

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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    Do you see anyone saying, "he is the best point guard on the planet..."? No. He is a solid starter, nothing more nothing less.
    I see 11 that are saying he's in the top half of his peers, and I just don't see that at all.

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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I agree with everyone on this list but Jennings. He's still riding a lot of hype from his rookie season, but has been pretty terrible since then.
    Jennings is a good point guard I just don't think he is playing in the right system, he needs to play up tempo, you put him in NY and he is a beast.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    The more you watch other PG's, the more of their weaknesses and mistakes that you will see. I think that's why the guys that are low on Collison are so low on him. I'm not real "high" on him either, but he is a middle of the road starter, which is in the top 15 range. Once you get passed the top 10-13 guys its really a toss up on what kind of player you want. All have different strengths and weaknesses. I'm fine with DC where he is. Yes, I would perfer a top talent, but so would everyone else. He's your average starting PG in this league, not great, not bad. I just take the stance to agree to disagree with you guys that say hes one of the worst. I see your argument, but I really believe you just know all of his mistakes more so than other guys in the league that are his skill level and below.

  21. #41
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    It's funny this thread came up, b/c me and some friends were just talking about this the other day during the 76er game. Off the top of my head, the PG's that are better than Collison are (in no particular order):

    1. Rose
    2. Paul
    3. Williams
    4. Westbrook
    5. Curry
    6. Rondo
    7. Lowry
    8. Holliday
    9. Parker
    10. Wall
    11. Irving
    12. Augustine (similar players, but at least Augustine can score a lil more)
    13. Felton
    14. Lawson


    Quote Originally Posted by Winner View Post
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    I would even take Holiday and Nash off of that list too. I think at the end of the year, Jrue and Darren's stats will almost be the same and Darren runs the offense better. And, Nash is really old.
    I would potentially take Nash off the list, but not Holliday. Collison may run the offense better, but due to his lack of size and passing ability he isnt able to get our team many easy baskets. And that's both in transition and in the half court. Meanwhile, Holliday has the size to match-up with anyone defensively, but also the ability to deliver the ball better on fast break situations. At least that is my opinion

    A lot of these players bring something substantial to their selective team. For some its defense, for some it's passing, for some its scoring. What does DC bring?

  22. #42
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    It's funny this thread came up, b/c me and some friends were just talking about this the other day during the 76er game. Off the top of my head, the PG's that are better than Collison are (in no particular order):

    1. Rose
    2. Paul
    3. Williams
    4. Westbrook
    5. Curry
    6. Rondo
    7. Lowry
    8. Holliday
    9. Parker
    10. Wall
    11. Irving
    12. Augustine (similar players, but at least Augustine can score a lil more)
    13. Felton
    14. Lawson




    I would potentially take Nash off the list, but not Holliday. Collison may run the offense better, but due to his lack of size and passing ability he isnt able to get our team many easy baskets. And that's both in transition and in the half court. Meanwhile, Holliday has the size to match-up with anyone defensively, but also the ability to deliver the ball better on fast break situations. At least that is my opinion

    A lot of these players bring something substantial to their selective team. For some its defense, for some it's passing, for some its scoring. What does DC bring?

    And I am actually a fan of Darren Collison.

  23. #43

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    I'd have to agree that at this point, DC is a lower-tier starting point guard.

    He currently doesn't have the ability to create offense for others as well as many other point guards do. And his defense, while much improved over last season, still doesn't elevate him over many other starters in the league.

    Right now, I'd put him at the level of Jarrett Jack, Jose Calderon, Rodney Stuckey, Mario Chalmers, and maybe Iman Shumpert. By that, I mean that if you swapped DC for any of those PG's, it probably wouldn't affect the Pacers' performance in a major way.

    If the goal is to continue with Granger, George, West/Hansbrough and Hibbert at the other positions moving forward, I think the Pacers need to get more playmaking from their starting PG. Whether that's from DC (through improvement) or from another player remains to be seen.

    That said, I still like having DC on the team and I'm eager to see how/if he grows as a player over the next year.
    Last edited by Aw Heck; 01-11-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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  24. #44
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That's the point, WE DON'T HAVE AN STAR IN ANY POSITION, reason why Mackey is bringing the point that for us to compete we need at least a pretty good player in every position.
    My argument is that Darren Collison is a pretty good player, regardless of where he ranks. There's just better competition for point guards than at other positions. The last three #1 picks were point guards. The league is guard-oriented. It would be much worse if we had the 28th best PF, C, or SF.
    Last edited by LoneGranger33; 01-11-2012 at 11:21 AM.

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  26. #45
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Steve Nash is still a top 10 point guard. There is no question about that.
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  28. #46
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    My argument is that Darren Collison is a pretty good player, regardless of where he ranks. There's just better competition for point guards than at other positions. The last three #1 picks were point guards. The league is guard-oriented. It would be much worse if we had the 28th best PF, C, or SF.
    Now that you are bringing that last part up I would really like to know were our other players are compared to the rest of the league, Roy is probably the only one in the top 10 I would think.

  29. #47
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Now that you are bringing that last part up I would really like to know were our other players are compared to the rest of the league, Roy is probably the only one in the top 10 I would think.
    Granger is a top 10 SF. I don't think he's a top 10 wing though.

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  31. #48

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    My argument is that Darren Collison is a pretty good player, regardless of where he ranks. There's just better competition for point guards than at other positions. The last three #1 picks were point guards. The league is guard-oriented. It would be much worse if we had the 28th best PF, C, or SF.
    i think you're missing a very important point.

    in the NBA, all the players are pretty good players regardless of where they rank. the fact that there are lots of good PGs means that the standard for being an above average player is higher. the 25th best player at a position is the 25th best player no matter what his skills are.

    either DC needs to get better or AJ needs to get better or lance needs to learn how to play or the pacers will be playing a below average player at the point. and if the pacers want to compete for the ECF, they will need a better player at the 1.

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  33. #49
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    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    not delusional, too critical of DC perhaps, but MR does have a point. using the ESPN ratings, DC was the 94th best player in the NBA and the 25th best PG. that puts him in the bottom half of the starting PG's.

    zack lowe of SI did his own rating of the top 100 players and DC came in 101st. that makes him the 24th best PG.

    the exact order of the players were different, but DC was in the same place. the bottom third of the league's PGs.

    MR may be a DC hater, but he makes a good argument.

    WAS ... not IS ... big difference in Darren of last year and Darren of this year... big improvement and slowly coming into his own..

    Patience
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  34. #50

    Default Re: DC vs. the other starting NBA Point Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    WAS ... not IS ... big difference in Darren of last year and Darren of this year... big improvement and slowly coming into his own..

    Patience
    pacer PGs are young guys. and i do hope they make the jump.


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