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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    I'm amazed no one speaks about Roy's game (or hardly)

    He showed us he is more then a level above last year, he ate the Philly frontline like lite toast
    You know why I think he's actually turned a corner?

    He's put up some good numbers and played great, yet I don't feel like he's had a "big" game yet. Last year if Roy had 20 and 8 or 19 and 8, I'd be thinking, "Way to go, Roy!" but he's making it look like its what he should be doing out there, and not some abherration.

    With that said, the game against the Hawks is going to be a huge test for the guy. He's struggled against that front line in the past.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I dont know what is crazier him being an all star or him being an All defensive teamer. Tyler plays no where near all defense. I would be happy would just average defense from him.
    All D, easy. The guy can score. He's a popular player. With a big year, he could find himself on an all-star team. But All D? Never.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    It's not any particular incident—A.J. missing the same shot twice, missing the easy pass to Collison, Lance missing the layup or having a rebound bounce off his hands, Paul George missing the last second dunk or charging once or twice.

    It's that none of those guys were able to get anything else going. Mistakes will be made. Mistakes SHOULD be made. But at some point you step up and make something happen. None of those guys did that on a night the red carpet was laid out for them to do so.

    Disappointing.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    It's not any particular incident—A.J. missing the same shot twice, missing the easy pass to Collison, Lance missing the layup or having a rebound bounce off his hands, Paul George missing the last second dunk or charging once or twice.

    It's that none of those guys were able to get anything else going. Mistakes will be made. Mistakes SHOULD be made. But at some point you step up and make something happen. None of those guys did that on a night the red carpet was laid out for them to do so.

    Disappointing.
    We missed a lot of layups and close shots.

    We still miss wide open jumpers.

    On paper, this should be a high % shooting team. I feel at some point we'll start hitting those shots. It just needs to be sooner rather than later.
    With the #3 pick in the 2015 draft, your Indiana Pacers!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Yeah AJ Price was horrible, he should go back to the bench unless somebody breaks a leg or something.

    DJ was OK but he was bad at times doing his best Tyreke Evans impersonation, overall he did better than Danny, making 50% of his shots with 2ast and 3reb and good D.

    DC was really bad, I am sorry but I keep hoping we get an upgrade in his position, he is just not that good.

    Tyler, I hope he is OK, we needed him to close the deal and he got hurt.

    Dwest, Yep he looks old and slow, his recovery is going to take as long as I expected probably a year or two, in paper he is supposed to be the second best player on the team but he is not ready yet.

    Roy is a beast I'm really happy that we have him, he has been really solid so far.

    PG, well his numbers were as bad as Danny's, the only difference is that this is PG second year in the NBA and I would cut him some slack because of it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Old and slow and put up 15 points 11 rebounds and 3 assists...

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    The past two games is by far the best Roy has ever played. He's not just scoring when he is able, he is scoring when the Pacers really need a score and when the defense is locked in on him. - that is a major difference from before.

    I expected the Pacers to lose at Philly, the Sixers are one of the best teams in the NBA right now. They have the greatest point differential in the NBA. They won't be the best team in a few weeks when other teams get into a groove, but the Sixers made very few changes since last season and several of their players have improved so I expected them to get off to a good start.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Old and slow and put up 15 points 11 rebounds and 3 assists...
    You can comment about other things in my post if you want too, not reason to get all defensive about me criticizing the new "golden boy", the true is that he was not as good as the stats show, his defense was once again bad, Peck and other people have mentioned the same thing but when I do it people get all sensitive :

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    You can comment about other things in my post if you want too, not reason to get all defensive about me criticizing the new "golden boy", the true is that he was not as good as the stats show, his defense was once again bad, Peck and other people have mentioned the same thing but when I do it people get all sensitive :
    Seeing as that was the only thing I had a comment on from your post and agreed with everything else, I'd say you're the one who is getting defensive and probably needs a :

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The past two games is by far the best Roy has ever played. He's not just scoring when he is able, he is scoring when the Pacers really need a score and when the defense is locked in on him. - that is a major difference from before.

    I expected the Pacers to lose at Philly, the Sixers are one of the best teams in the NBA right now. They have the greatest point differential in the NBA. They won't be the best team in a few weeks when other teams get into a groove, but the Sixers made very few changes since last season and several of their players have improved so I expected them to get off to a good start.
    Yeah the Sixers to me are like a better version of the Pacers, they are also more athletic and quicker than us, I also expected the Pacers to lose even with Danny and Hill playing.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-10-2012 at 12:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    DJ was OK but he was bad at times doing his best Tyreke Evans impersonation, overall he did better than Danny, making 50% of his shots with 2ast and 3reb and good D.
    This kind of gets said around here like it's an accepted truth, but I keep watching Kobe Jones get burned a lot on defense, every game.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    *sigh* after this, I'm completely done arguing this stuff. But it just bugs me because it's inaccurate.

    Hibbert was not on a role. Hibbert had just entered the game. (Literally) Price was playing the shooting guard position. He had two wide open mid-range shots. Why is it bad that your shooting guard took two open mid-range shots?
    Yes, he was. Roy literally just scored on one of the two possessions above fairly easily. Give the big man the ball!

    This statement is inaccurate, that was a tough shot, his momentum was carrying him to the basket, he was off balance, but he tries it not once? But twice? Give me a break and know your role.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    This kind of gets said around here like it's an accepted truth, but I keep watching Kobe Jones get burned a lot on defense, every game.
    I meant to say better D than Danny, so in other words if we were going to get the same Danny Granger we got so far this season(.300) and 13/15 points per game, I don't think we lost that much by having DJ replacing him, reason why I don't buy the excuse that we could have won the game with Danny in the game. Now if you tell me that we are getting the old Danny back that's a whole different conversation.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    In AJ's defense, those two missed baseline jumpers were good open looks. If he is going to be on the floor, I think it's a shot he needs to take.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I meant to say better D than Danny, so in other words if we were going to get the same Danny Granger we got so far this season(.300) and 13/15 points per game, I don't think we lost that much by having DJ replacing him, reason why I don't buy the excuse that we could have won the game with Danny in the game. Now if you tell me that we are getting the old Danny back that's a whole different conversation.
    Count55 had a tweet the other day, where he used the numbers from Synergy Sports about Dannys defense.

    Let's just say that you aren't even in the same universe as what has been happening on the court.

    I forget the exact details, but I'm positive it was measuring 27 iso plays where Danny was the defender. I know they resulted in 10, count em, TEN turnovers with a FG% at 23%. (I'm pretty sure it was 23%, but if not, it was in that territory)

    I'll go back through his tweets and see if I can locate the exact tweet.

    Danny's defense has been fan-freaking-tastic this season.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Found it.

    @TimDonahue
    @8pts9sec per @mtSynergySports Grangers' defensive #s are sick. In 54 plays, allowing 05.2PPP, 24.4% FG%, & 10 TO's vs. 2 shooting fouls.
    I remembered 27, because that's the points scored (54 possessions, 1/2 a point per possession)

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Do you have DJ's numbers to compare them? either way I'm not a numbers guy, yeah is a tool that you can use but it shouldn't be the tool, I'm sorry but I still remember people telling me that having Dunleavy and Mcbob in the starting unit made us one of the better teams in the NBA, that pretty much did it for me not to trust numbers ever again, that and JOB with his +/- BS and also using opponents shooting percentage as a way to defend the other teams players.


    Edit: By the way I'm going to start to pay even more attention to Danny's D because I haven't really see this great D everybody keeps talking about, how many times during the game he is guarding the other team best player? PG is usually the one in charge of doing this, how many teams with a dominant SF have we played? Detroit, Raptors, Cleveland, Nets and Bobcats don't have a player as good as Danny to play againts him, again I'm not hating, all I'm saying is that the sample that we have at this moment is not big enough, now if he keeps doing it until the end of the year we might end up with Danny in the NBA defensive team.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-10-2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    So many people have resorted to the "it's a tool, not the tool" line it's becoming overplayed.

    I don't know how you can say they're just numbers, when they're measuring what you're seeing. +/- gets that excuse, because those are completely dependent on the other 4 guys you're playing with.

    Measuring his defensive stats in iso plays, measures what you see with your eyeballs.


    Danny is putting up downright awesome defensive numbers. I haven't even mentioned the fact that he's fourth in the NBA in steals. He's taken multiple charges, he's been getting deflections, and his energy on the defensive side has been well above average for him.

    At this point in time, it's like you focus on the one or two times out of ten that the offense does something positive, and then applying that as the overall standard of Danny's defense.

    You're just not right about this topic. His defense is much better visually, and statistically.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quite true.... one could attack Danny's team defensive abilities if they want to give it a try. But this season, there is no way in hell they can attack his man-on-man defensive success in isolation plays. The statistic in this case is there where all, end all.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    OK so here is a list of Danny's opponents so far this season:

    Prince, Rasual Butler, Parker,Lebron,Pierce,Thomas and whoverer they had in NJ, only two players out of all those guys are as good or better than Danny and the other guys would not even start in a good team, as we all know Danny got destroyed by Lebron in Miami but Danny did a good job againts Pierce, again not hating or trying to stir the pot or anything but I just think that the sample is too small and the list of players he played againts are not good offensive players to begging with.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Sounds like a list of normal starting SFs in the league to me. There's only one LeBron, so I don't know how you can fault Danny for not guarding him every game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Man,
    Just give Danny props for what he has been really good at so far. Defense. Sure his shot is awful lately, criticize that all you want. But he has been playing some of the best D in the league.

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  32. #48
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    OK so here is a list of Danny's opponents so far this season:

    Prince, Rasual Butler, Parker,Lebron,Pierce,Thomas and whoverer they had in NJ, only two players out of all those guys are as good or better than Danny and the other guys would not even start in a good team, as we all know Danny got destroyed by Lebron in Miami but Danny did a good job againts Pierce, again not hating or trying to stir the pot or anything but I just think that the sample is too small and the list of players he played againts are not good offensive players to begging with.
    Danny didn't defend LeBron. He should have, but he didn't.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Sounds like a list of normal starting SFs in the league to me. There's only one LeBron, so I don't know how you can fault Danny for not guarding him every game.
    There are more that you think, Lebron, Melo, Iguadola, Jsmith,Durant,Deng, Gay, Caron Butler, Pierce, Gerald Wallace and many more.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-10-2012 at 01:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia Freedom

    Well you put Paul Pierce on your list of players Danny guarded, and using that as evidence he hasn't played anyone good.

    If you're going to put PP in that category, why wouldn't I expect you to put the rest of them on there? And Danny played 7 games straight against Deng, and played him very well defensively.

    Danny has put together, including the preseason games, about 15 straight games of increased defensive effort, and you're still on his back.

    If you're gonna throw barbs, atleast throw them at him for his shooting percentage, and not in areas that Danny has been well above average in.

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