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Thread: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

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    Default Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...f=twitter_feed
    By Ian Thomsen

    Not so long ago Danny Granger was an All-Star scoring 25.8 points per game, and he was frustrated. Now Granger is averaging 14.9 points while shooting a career-worst 30.7 percent from the field, and he is smiling.

    "Usually, if I was shooting the way I've been shooting, we'd have no chance,'' he said. "But we do now. And it's fun now, it's a lot of fun.''

    The Pacers were out to a 6-2 start that ranked them No. 3 in the Eastern Conference coming out of the second full weekend of this shortened season. Their early schedule could not have been easier -- an unimposing pair of back-to-backs and a 5-1 record against teams that were in the lottery last spring -- but for the first time in years they're winning the games they ought to win, including an 87-74 throttling of the struggling Celtics on Friday in Boston.

    The arrival of two-time All-Star David West is one reason for the strong start, but the Pacers should also be congratulated for something they didn't do: They didn't trade Tyler Hansbrough. Team insiders say they worried about signing West at power forward because his presence wouldn't leave enough minutes for Hansbrough to develop off the bench. But Pacers president Larry Bird got out front of the issue.

    "We talked about that,'' said the 6-foot-9 West, who agreed to spend some time at center to make room for the 6-9 Hansbrough to play alongside him at power forward.

    So far, Hansbrough (12.9 points in 27.8 minutes) is outscoring West (10.4 points in 27 minutes), but there is no power forward controversy. West is the superior player -- a better passer and a more accomplished leader with the experience and charisma that the young Pacers need. He and Granger anchor the starting lineup while Hansbrough defines one of the league's best second units. In 222 minutes, Hansbrough has generated zero assists while attacking the basket and the boards relentlessly.

    "The other nine guys on the court start to play harder as soon as he walks on the court,'' Pacers coach Frank Vogel said of Hansbrough. "It's completely contagious. He has a motor like no other in the NBA, and when he steps on the court, our guys just play harder. When you're getting hustle plays every third or fourth time down the court, it helps you win. He's just a winning player.''

    West and Hansbrough each embody a team that competes, which can be traced back to Bird's anti-tanking policy. Over the last several years of rebuilding, Bird refused to enable his team to lose on purpose even though his strategy damaged Indiana's position in the draft. The Pacers went 27-13 in the final month of three full seasons under coach Jim O'Brien, who was replaced last January by longtime assistant Vogel. As a result, they would never pick higher than No. 10, but they learned to fight regardless of their record.

    "It would have backfired if we would have tried to tank games,'' said Granger, the small forward who was picked No. 17 by the Pacers in 2005. "First of all, it creates a losing mentality, and you never want to have that mentality as a team. We would have got a high draft pick, but who's to say it would have fit in for what we needed here? People are so high on thinking, 'Let's get the high draft pick.' But if you really look at your team and dissect the draft, you can get a player who fits your team and who you see potential in. That's what our ownership has done and it's paid off.''

    Those picks have created a rotation that is poised to make the playoffs for a second straight year around Granger, Hansbrough (No. 13 in 2009), shooting guard Paul George (No. 10 in 2010) and center Roy Hibbert (No. 17 in 2008, his rights acquired by Indiana in the Jermaine O'Neal trade with Toronto). Young guards Darren Collison and George Hill were obtained via trade. The Pacers have plenty of depth -- including on their bench staff, where Vogel is backed up by potential future head coaches Brian Shaw and Jim Boylen, along with longtime Pacers assistant Dan Burke.

    Granger believes that the Pacers should aim for a top-four seed after losing in the first round last year with a 37-45 record.

    "Right now, I'm shooting it bad and we're shooting it bad as a team,'' he said of the Pacers' 41.5 percent rate from the field, 26th in the NBA. "When we start to execute more on the offensive end and we hit a rhythm, we're going to hit a big win streak because our defense is always going to be there. We've only been playing together for about a month, and in a normal season you play with each other for a month and then you start the regular season. We're still messing up plays on the offensive end, forgetting plays.''

    One thing Granger doesn't want to hear from his young teammates is talk of how much better they can become in two or three years. He has learned how quickly things can change.

    "I'm kind of nervous, because we're so talented that in two years we're going to have no money to keep this team together,'' he said with a laugh. "I really am nervous. It's always the truth, right? We've got two or three people coming up with extensions. We've got to keep them.

    "We're not going to be able to keep it together for long, so we've got to take advantage of it while we have it. But we're having fun right now.''

    Couple quotes from Granger I thought were interesting.
    Last edited by Day-V; 01-09-2012 at 01:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Granger
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    "I'm kind of nervous, because we're so talented that in two years we're going to have no money to keep this team together,'' he said with a laugh. "I really am nervous. It's always the truth, right? We've got two or three people coming up with extensions. We've got to keep them.

    "We're not going to be able to keep it together for long, so we've got to take advantage of it while we have it. But we're having fun right now.''
    Anybody else think he's nervous because he knows there's a better chance of him being dealt than the front office letting Hibbert, George, or Hansbrough walk? That's just what crossed my mind as I read it.

    I like the attitude of this team, and Danny is definitely a part of that. He's right though, this won't last forever because there is quite a bit of young talent here. Hopefully we can make the most of it before it is broken up.
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Keep shooting 30% from the field and it won't be to hard to take care of the future extensions after they trade your butt Danny Boy.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Keep shooting 30% from the field and it won't be to hard to take care of the future extensions after they trade your butt Danny Boy.
    Why would you trade Danny at his lowest? do you really think anybody is going to trade anything of value for him right now? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Cheese and rice. Some of you guys and your comments. You have no loyalty to a player who has been nothing but great to us. Danny could have left years ago when he was up, he was a big name on a small market team. Without Danny we might not have the team we have now. Who would want to come to Indiana without another good player? No David West IMO.

    Danny has gave it his all to this franchise. Just look at him, he looks like his knees are deteriorating. He looks so much slower to when he came in the league. Not even Brandon Roy looked this slow when he had those knee problems. Without danny we are not 6-2. Danny has been our rock for years!
    He is without a question a leader as well, he's always talking to guys. He has not attempted more than 15 these last few games so he is not a chugger. He has played defense at a high level. He came back from a sprained ankle! and I'm sure that he will play again tonight thru food poisoning.

    I'm sure there are many teams that would love a 6'9 SF who can shoot the ball at will when he's on. Not to mention that he has pushed the 40% threshold in the past at the 3 point line.
    Last edited by picasso; 01-09-2012 at 02:15 PM. Reason: wording.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    You guys can talk about trading Danny or whatever, but I'm sorry, my team is on the floor.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    We have more than enough money to keep the core together (assuming we don't splurge in FA). Our cap next year is at $34M, but remember, we can go up to $70M (luxury tax) to keep our own players via bird rights. Worst case, Hibbert and Hill will get $18M/year max next year ($12M & $6M respectively). That puts us at $52M worst case scenario next year between our core players (Granger, West, Hibbert, Hill, Hans, Collison, & PG).

    When Hans and Collison are up the following summer, West & Dahntay are coming off the books at $13M in addition to the $5M from Hans and Collison. Assuming West is still productive, I view all 3 of those players as $6-7M/year players. So it's essentially a wash from where West, Hans, and Collison were at before, just reallocating the dollars, primarily the $10M West was getting

    PG is up the next year, however Danny's $14M comes off the books in addition to PG's $3M. No way Danny will sniff $14M/year. Maybe $9M/year max. Let's just assume PG is maxed at $15M/year.

    PG - $15M
    Hibbert - $12M
    Danny - $9M
    Hans -$7M
    West - $6M
    Collison - $6M
    Hill - $6M

    Total = $61M. We still have $9-10M under the LT to round out the roster with minimum salary players (7-8 players). Keep in mind, these are all very high end estimates for every player.

    Bird and Morway have done an excellent job staggering the expiration of our large contracts with extensions for the young guys, so we will never get pinched into the LT for a single season.
    Last edited by purdue101; 01-09-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You guys can talk about trading Danny or whatever, but I'm sorry, my team is on the floor.
    Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting trading Danny right now. Just that in a couple years, we're going to have some choices to make. In a couple years, Danny will be older, and the young guys will be better. Danny is a huge part of this team and I like Danny, but realistically, there's a good chance that his contract will be the one chosen not to be renewed.

    According to purdue101, maybe we won't have to worry about it financially. But, there is still the chance that Danny's age plus PG24's development, plus a potential FA signing (no idea who, just saying) will equal Danny going to another team.

    In a nutshell, it's just the business of the NBA that Danny might not necessarily retire as a Pacer.
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    I think some of you need to embrace that Paul & Danny are a team and stop trying to push Danny out the door to elevate Paul George into Kevin Durrant.

    Why mess with what is working. Sounds to me like Danny is embracing his role on the team and enjoying the success of the club over the individual success he once had.

    I keep coming off as a Danny Granger fan boy, believe me there are things to criticize. But some of this over the top "we've gotta get rid of this guy" stuff is just to much.

    I swear the same people who bash Danny Granger are probably the first people to line up to praise Reggie Miller not realizing how similar the two are.

    I have seen every game Danny Granger has played in as a pro & I saw the vast majority of games Reggie Miller played in and I'm telling you at this point in their career's you guys would have been wanting to dump Miller as well. Every complaint you have about Danny you would have had about Reggie except one small thing. Danny actually can defend when he wants to, Reggie had to work just to be an average defender and that was only after years of not caring about it.


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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    We have more than enough money to keep the core together (assuming we don't splurge in FA). Our cap next year is at $34M, but remember, we can go up to $70M (luxury tax) to keep our own players via bird rights. Worst case, Hibbert and Hill will get $18M/year max next year ($12M & $6M respectively). That puts us at $52M worst case scenario next year between our core players (Granger, West, Hibbert, Hill, Hans, Collison, & PG).

    When Hans and Collison are up the following summer, West & Dahntay are coming off the books at $13M in addition to the $5M from Hans and Collison. Assuming West is still productive, I view all 3 of those players as $6-7M/year players. So it's essentially a wash from where West, Hans, and Collison were at before, just reallocating the dollars, primarily the $10M West was getting

    PG is up the next year, however Danny's $14M comes off the books in addition to PG's $3M. No way Danny will sniff $14M/year. Maybe $9M/year max. Let's just assume PG is maxed at $15M/year.

    PG - $15M
    Hibbert - $12M
    Danny - $9M
    Hans -$7M
    West - $6M
    Collison - $6M
    Hill - $6M

    Total = $61M. We still have $9-10M under the LT to round out the roster with minimum salary players (7-8 players). Keep in mind, these are all very high end estimates for every player.

    Bird and Morway have done an excellent job staggering the expiration of our large contracts with extensions for the young guys, so we will never get pinched into the LT for a single season.
    Not to mention any draft picks over the next two years who could be a part of that team. If we don't overspend and keep developing the players, this team should be good for a long time.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    We have more than enough money to keep the core together (assuming we don't splurge in FA). Our cap next year is at $34M, but remember, we can go up to $70M (luxury tax) to keep our own players via bird rights. Worst case, Hibbert and Hill will get $18M/year max next year ($12M & $6M respectively). That puts us at $52M worst case scenario next year between our core players (Granger, West, Hibbert, Hill, Hans, Collison, & PG).

    When Hans and Collison are up the following summer, West & Dahntay are coming off the books at $13M in addition to the $5M from Hans and Collison. Assuming West is still productive, I view all 3 of those players as $6-7M/year players. So it's essentially a wash from where West, Hans, and Collison were at before, just reallocating the dollars, primarily the $10M West was getting

    PG is up the next year, however Danny's $14M comes off the books in addition to PG's $3M. No way Danny will sniff $14M/year. Maybe $9M/year max. Let's just assume PG is maxed at $15M/year.

    PG - $15M
    Hibbert - $12M
    Danny - $9M
    Hans -$7M
    West - $6M
    Collison - $6M
    Hill - $6M

    Total = $61M. We still have $9-10M under the LT to round out the roster with minimum salary players (7-8 players). Keep in mind, these are all very high end estimates for every player.

    Bird and Morway have done an excellent job staggering the expiration of our large contracts with extensions for the young guys, so we will never get pinched into the LT for a single season.
    Wait a minute.....Where's Foster at??? Watching him play, I say he still has a good 2 to 3 years.....Then it's off to the front office for him.....

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I think some of you need to embrace that Paul & Danny are a team and stop trying to push Danny out the door to elevate Paul George into Kevin Durrant.

    Why mess with what is working. Sounds to me like Danny is embracing his role on the team and enjoying the success of the club over the individual success he once had.

    I keep coming off as a Danny Granger fan boy, believe me there are things to criticize. But some of this over the top "we've gotta get rid of this guy" stuff is just to much.

    I swear the same people who bash Danny Granger are probably the first people to line up to praise Reggie Miller not realizing how similar the two are.

    I have seen every game Danny Granger has played in as a pro & I saw the vast majority of games Reggie Miller played in and I'm telling you at this point in their career's you guys would have been wanting to dump Miller as well. Every complaint you have about Danny you would have had about Reggie except one small thing. Danny actually can defend when he wants to, Reggie had to work just to be an average defender and that was only after years of not caring about it.
    Well said. It is so easy to look at the warts in a players game and really miss the big picture. Danny is a good teamate and player and I really hope he takes a lesser role scoring
    and allows the rest of the team help out offensively. It is a win win for everyone if he does.
    That allows him to be much more aggressive defensively.
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    I hope we can keep our core 8 players together for the next 4 years, but those numbers purdue101 put upper are pretty conservative. I see Collison getting at least 10mil per year, Hill closer to 9mil, and if we don't someone will pay 10mil for Tyler.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    I still don't agree that tanking is ALWAYS a bad thing. Anyway, having JOB here was the same thing as tanking.

    Last season under Vogel making the playoffs was a huge step for going forward.
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    I hope we can keep our core 8 players together for the next 4 years, but those numbers purdue101 put upper are pretty conservative. I see Collison getting at least 10mil per year, Hill closer to 9mil, and if we don't someone will pay 10mil for Tyler.
    Danny Granger signed his new deal starting at 9Mil a season, and that was when he was averaging 19+ PPG going into that season. Where he made the All Star team.

    So to say that any of these guys outside of Hibbert are gonna be making more than Granger in 08-09 is insane.

    Also I wouldnt be surprised if Danny agrees to re-work his deal in that 14 million final year and get an extension for 9 million over multiple seasons.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 01-09-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by ejwallace View Post
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    Wait a minute.....Where's Foster at??? Watching him play, I say he still has a good 2 to 3 years.....Then it's off to the front office for him.....
    I expect Jeff to retire at the end of this season to one of the biggest ovations in franchise history.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I think some of you need to embrace that Paul & Danny are a team and stop trying to push Danny out the door to elevate Paul George into Kevin Durrant.

    Why mess with what is working. Sounds to me like Danny is embracing his role on the team and enjoying the success of the club over the individual success he once had.

    I keep coming off as a Danny Granger fan boy, believe me there are things to criticize. But some of this over the top "we've gotta get rid of this guy" stuff is just to much.

    I swear the same people who bash Danny Granger are probably the first people to line up to praise Reggie Miller not realizing how similar the two are.

    I have seen every game Danny Granger has played in as a pro & I saw the vast majority of games Reggie Miller played in and I'm telling you at this point in their career's you guys would have been wanting to dump Miller as well. Every complaint you have about Danny you would have had about Reggie except one small thing. Danny actually can defend when he wants to, Reggie had to work just to be an average defender and that was only after years of not caring about it.
    And to further Peck's point, Reggie only had the excuse of briefly having to play for Irvine and Versace, while Danny had to toil under coach satan... his game is currently undergoing a basketball exorcism, so give the guy a brake (and your prayers!)
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    We have more than enough money to keep the core together (assuming we don't splurge in FA). Our cap next year is at $34M, but remember, we can go up to $70M (luxury tax) to keep our own players via bird rights. Worst case, Hibbert and Hill will get $18M/year max next year ($12M & $6M respectively). That puts us at $52M worst case scenario next year between our core players (Granger, West, Hibbert, Hill, Hans, Collison, & PG).

    When Hans and Collison are up the following summer, West & Dahntay are coming off the books at $13M in addition to the $5M from Hans and Collison. Assuming West is still productive, I view all 3 of those players as $6-7M/year players. So it's essentially a wash from where West, Hans, and Collison were at before, just reallocating the dollars, primarily the $10M West was getting

    PG is up the next year, however Danny's $14M comes off the books in addition to PG's $3M. No way Danny will sniff $14M/year. Maybe $9M/year max. Let's just assume PG is maxed at $15M/year.

    PG - $15M
    Hibbert - $12M
    Danny - $9M
    Hans -$7M
    West - $6M
    Collison - $6M
    Hill - $6M

    Total = $61M. We still have $9-10M under the LT to round out the roster with minimum salary players (7-8 players). Keep in mind, these are all very high end estimates for every player.

    Bird and Morway have done an excellent job staggering the expiration of our large contracts with extensions for the young guys, so we will never get pinched into the LT for a single season.
    I see Collison and Hill making more than $6mil a year, but thats me.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    I expect Jeff to retire at the end of this season to one of the biggest ovations in franchise history.

    And I will do my best to not cry my eyes out like a little baby.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Hansbrough has generated zero assists while attacking the basket and the boards relentlessly.

    "The other nine guys on the court start to play harder as soon as he walks on the court,''
    There's Tyler's "assists" right there.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Keep shooting 30% from the field and it won't be to hard to take care of the future extensions after they trade your butt Danny Boy.
    haha was pretty funny when i read that.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    I hope we can keep our core 8 players together for the next 4 years, but those numbers purdue101 put upper are pretty conservative. I see Collison getting at least 10mil per year, Hill closer to 9mil, and if we don't someone will pay 10mil for Tyler.
    If Tyler gets $10M per season than he will have to be tearing it up (I'm talking 18 & 7 minimum), in which case you give him the $10M per season, let West walk, and then sign a 10-15mpg backup for $3-4M. In that scenario, you're probably in better shape long term b/c you have a young guy putting up great numbers as opposed to splitting time/production with an older player.

    Collison & Hill will not sniff $9-10M per season unless they are vastly improved. I put them on par with Conley & Lowry when they received their extensions, which were 5-7M per year. Same with Jameer Nelson and Raymond Felton.

    I thought my projections were generous to the players, particularly PG getting $15M year, which is going to require him to be a franchise cornerstone.

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Keep shooting 30% from the field and it won't be to hard to take care of the future extensions after they trade your butt Danny Boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Why would you trade Danny at his lowest? do you really think anybody is going to trade anything of value for him right now? I don't think so.
    I was crackin a joke man, I'm sure Danny will find his stroke and he won't have to be nervous anymore....lol!

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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    I think if we make a deep playoff run this year and the next, with Collison proving to be a good floor general, he may get up to $7-8M per season even if his numbers don't vastly improve. Rondo started at $9M per year and he won a title and is much better than Collison.

    Hill is somewhat cornered b/c his extension is this summer. He would have to suddently start averaging 15+ ppg to get more than $5-7M/year. Unless there is an injury, I don't see that happening. #1 bench guards that average 9-12ppg typically get $5-6M/year (Korver, Jared Dudley, Redick, Lou Williams, Jack, etc).

  31. #25
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Have High Hopes in East

    very generous purdue, the idea Tyler would get 10 per would mean he grows to the quality of David West aka an All Star forward who play BOTH ENDS of the floor.

    Tyler if he stays as he is, and there is little reason to assume he will make big leaps is 5 or 6 per tops.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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