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Thread: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
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    danny had a top of the key midrange. it was also a good shot to take, i just think he lacked confidence to make it and made the safer play.
    It was an OK shot but multiple defenders were converging on him and Darren was wiiiide open. He passed up an OK shot for a good shot. That looks like growth in terms of his shot selection, not a lack of confidence - especially in light of Vogel saying Danny needed to learn to trust his teammates a little more (as relayed by the Boston announcers toward the start of the game).
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  2. #127
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Who the **** said they were impressed with his stats? They were impressed with his effort tonight.



    Big difference.
    The stats are from the same game you were watching. I think this means they are closely related.

  3. #128
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    wow everybody has all of a sudden brought AJ back from the dead. He plays one game, we win and now all of a sudden he should be the back up pg. lol give me a break

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RLeWorm View Post
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    wow everybody has all of a sudden brought AJ back from the dead. He plays one game, we win and now all of a sudden he should be the back up pg. lol give me a break
    Well he has always been a good backup. Last year against the Bulls he held his own. He just knows how to play the PG position. He can also make shots, something Lance hasn't proven he can do on a consistent basis. Having our whole team healthy should really show us what this team can do.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    I don't understand. How is a player (Lance) that has not made a bucket this year more naturally an SG than he is a PG? Last year, he shot .333 in 12 games, including 0-5 3ptrs. This year, he is 0-9 FGs.

    Not a big sample, perhaps, but where is there any indication at all that he should be a shooting guard?
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    What has Atlanta won??
    5 games out of 8... The better question is what has New York won out of the teams I mentioned...

    Good comeback though... Way to go champ!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012.../1062/SPORTS04
    Doc Rivers on ETwaun Moore
    "He's a second-round pick and he can play," Rivers said. "He can shoot the ball. The question was can he play the point guard position. I think he can."
    I dont get the infatuation teams have with with playing these SG's at pg. Etwuan is a very good shooter and what not but pg??? No way he sticks there IMO. Etwuan is not a pg they are doing the same thing with Avery Bradley who is better fit for SG than pg. I dont know I just feel like these kids are getting mis used and it will hurt Etwuan in the long run.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    5 games out of 8... The better question is what has New York won out of the teams I mentioned...

    Good comeback though... Way to go champ!
    I am talking about NBA playoffs wise they havent won ****. They aren't real contenders IMO they are a good team but they aren't contenders for a title.


    even Chuck agrees with me



    "the Atlanta hawks will always die in the first round of the playoffs" Couldn't of said it better myself Chuck

    "you know how this movie is gonna end"
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 01-07-2012 at 04:12 AM.

  10. #134
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    Well he has always been a good backup. Last year against the Bulls he held his own. He just knows how to play the PG position. He can also make shots, something Lance hasn't proven he can do on a consistent basis. Having our whole team healthy should really show us what this team can do.
    he held his own in the playoffs? When DC went out cause of the ankle and AJ had to step in, that was horrible. The rest of the game was bad watching him on the court. Thank goodness Vogel brought Tj Ford. We still lost but AJ did not "hold his own."

  11. #135
    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    The stats are from the same game you were watching. I think this means they are closely related.
    His stat line doesn't tell the whole story, Obie.

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  13. #136
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Not that I want to use this as a chance to kick Satan again....

    But let's look at this for a min. We are 10 deep per Hubie and we are young and talented per many other national media figures.

    Does West & Hill make all of the difference? They certainly are huge upgrades, without a doubt.

    But even if they weren't here with a first round pick and either Josh or another player added to at the four I think most would still be saying this about us.

    The point is, the vast majority of the players who are part of that 10 deep roster where here last season when Satan proclaimed we were not good enough.

    The biggest single difference in the Indiana Pacers is not the players, it is in the coaching.

    Not having your power forward be an old out of shape small forward or having it so that your point guard really never handles the ball but only facilitates bringing the ball up the court and dumping it off and then primarly being a score will tend to change the makeup of a club.

    Having it so that your power forwards and center are around the rim and everybody driving to the basket instead of taking the first open shot available will change the makeup of a club.

    Leading the league in free throw attempts instead of being dead last will also dramatically change the makeup of the club.

    We are young, we are talented, but we were last season as well. I'm not discounting the additions of Hill & West I'm just saying that Vogel is far far far far far far to the infinte number squared better than O'Brien.
    Let's look at the 10 deep Players under Vogel:

    DC/PG/Granger/West/Hibbert/AJ_or_Lance/GH/Inferno/Hans/Foster_or_Amundson

    Last season before the FO was enlightened, JO'B had who?

    DC/PG/Granger/McBob/Hibbert/TJ/Dunleavy/Inferno/Hans/Foster_or_Solo

    Who was the difference? McBob, Dunleavy and TJ?

    I'd say that Coaching is a big difference...but let's not underestimate what adding West and GH means to the lineup. The upgrade is not a championship-caliber move, but it's noticeable as to what it does to the lineup and how much it improves the rotations.
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  14. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    His stat line doesn't tell the whole story, Obie.
    Resorting to name calling just makes you look weak minded. I don't respect that garbage.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

  15. #138
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    FWIW: Point guard +/- for the Pacers-Bulls series last year:

    Collison was -24 in around 150 minutes for the 5 games.
    AJ Price was -15 for about 80 minutes for the 5 games.
    TJ Ford was +7 in 14 minutes (dnp 3 gms).
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    The stats are from the same game you were watching. I think this means they are closely related.
    I have never been a Price fan and probably never will be. He is a solid 3rd string but he is replaceable and upgradeable very easily IMO.

    But come on now Hellen Keller would of saw what Price did for us last night "beyond the stats". The ball movement was a lot better in the 2nd unit. As a whole they played a lot better AJ and Foster were the main reason IMO. AJ cant shoot very well but AJ can run some semblance of an offense which is quite a feat when you are stuck playing with Djones and Hansbrough. That would frustate the **** out of me when the coach calls PnR 95% of the time you know you are gonna be left double teamed and not getting a pick because Tyler seems incapable of setting one. AJ is not good but AJ is very serviceable.

    you must have 0 basketball sense if your saying Price didn't play better than his stats say he did and didn't have a bigger impact on the game. Stats in basketball are not the full story this isn't baseball.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 01-07-2012 at 04:27 AM.

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  18. #140

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Just finished watching the game. Loved our rebounding obviously, and everyone was hustling on defense. Boston missed a bunch of shots they usually make, but I'll take it.

    I'm more concerned about Collison not getting any penetration on his passes. Every time he passes its side to side, nothing going toward the basket. It's especially hard to pass in the lane against the Celtics because they have KG, but even against teams with weak defensive front courts DC isn't getting it done. You can especially tell when AJ or Lance come in. Even though they have problems of their own, they can find gaps in the defense and get the offense working toward the rim.

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  20. #141

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    The biggest single difference in the Indiana Pacers is not the players, it is in the coaching.

    Not having your power forward be an old out of shape small forward or having it so that your point guard really never handles the ball but only facilitates bringing the ball up the court and dumping it off and then primarly being a score will tend to change the makeup of a club.

    Having it so that your power forwards and center are around the rim and everybody driving to the basket instead of taking the first open shot available will change the makeup of a club.

    Leading the league in free throw attempts instead of being dead last will also dramatically change the makeup of the club.

    We are young, we are talented, but we were last season as well. I'm not discounting the additions of Hill & West I'm just saying that Vogel is far far far far far far to the infinte number squared better than O'Brien.
    Man, Peck, sometimes your lingering angst is so palpable, I think some therapy would do you good.

  21. #142
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I'd give Lance a few minutes of developmental time at the SG, by taking away some of Jones' time.
    I think this is a good idea.
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  22. #143
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Paul George has a bit of Reggie in him. I'd love to see us start running him off screens for open jumpers like that one play we saw tonight. Was that designed or accidental? Either way it was smooth.
    Saw that and loved it. More please! Danny would also benefit from that type of play; he'd be much more efficient than with the current ISO play they're calling.
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  23. #144
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Just finished watching the game. Loved our rebounding obviously, and everyone was hustling on defense. Boston missed a bunch of shots they usually make, but I'll take it.

    I'm more concerned about Collison not getting any penetration on his passes. Every time he passes its side to side, nothing going toward the basket. It's especially hard to pass in the lane against the Celtics because they have KG, but even against teams with weak defensive front courts DC isn't getting it done. You can especially tell when AJ or Lance come in. Even though they have problems of their own, they can find gaps in the defense and get the offense working toward the rim.
    Good post. They can find gaps for a couple reasons. They are taller AND naturally able to see the floor much better. Those are two extremely different things, but both are crucial. Also, Lance and probably AJ are more talented passers. That is also a separate distinction.

    BUT...Collison is a valuable player. A very valuable one in fact. As long as he plays much, he should be used more like a SG. I'm sorry if people want him to play PG, but as good as he's playing he will never have those types of skills. But he could be a great scorer and shooter. One that goes around picks along the lines of Rip Hamilton. The reason is that he can shoot very, very well...and he can drive to the bucket very, very well. He's also ultra quick. He can even shoot for range. Have him watch Tony Parker. Tony doesn't really play the role of floor general that much, but he's quite effective.

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  25. #145

    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    BUT...Collison is a valuable player. A very valuable one in fact. As long as he plays much, he should be used more like a SG. I'm sorry if people want him to play PG, but as good as he's playing he will never have those types of skills. But he could be a great scorer and shooter. One that goes around picks along the lines of Rip Hamilton. The reason is that he can shoot very, very well...and he can drive to the bucket very, very well. He's also ultra quick. He can even shoot for range. Have him watch Tony Parker. Tony doesn't really play the role of floor general that much, but he's quite effective.
    I'm coming around on this. Last year I attributed it to being a second year guard and a new system, but it just looks like he's more of a short combo guard than a pure point guard. As you said, Tony Parker is a good comparison. The Spurs have had the luxury of having a two guard with the vision of a point guard in Manu who takes the weight off Parker. I wonder if we can become elite without that.

  26. #146
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I'm coming around on this. Last year I attributed it to being a second year guard and a new system, but it just looks like he's more of a short combo guard than a pure point guard. As you said, Tony Parker is a good comparison. The Spurs have had the luxury of having a two guard with the vision of a point guard in Manu who takes the weight off Parker. I wonder if we can become elite without that.
    I really didn't like Collison last year, but he has progressively improved. He has even slightly improved his PG skills, so I'm not completely closing the door on him. More than anything, I would like him to prove me wrong and develop into more of a pass first PG.

    But I would still like him to retain his good qualities and that's darting around the floor, catching passes and converting shots. He is really good at that already. Hopefully our team learns to pass well enough that his weaknesses are completely masked.

    The good news is that he has a good handle and can bring the ball down the court. I have some hopes that he'll find a way to execute the PnR adequately. But I think his natural skills are mostly SG and he could be a Rip Hamilton type of threat. But we need to really work on our passing a lot. A Ginobili type player and development of our passing skills as a team would go a long way to allowing Darren to operate as a starter here.

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaHa3000 View Post
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    Hubie Brown just said " Indiana is 10 deep. They just got to figure out how they are going to play in their half court offence. But they really have some good players."

    I respect Hubie and him saying that means a lot. Pacers are getting the respect via the media more and more it seems.
    Yeah. He was touting us during whatever game he was doing on opening day. Talked about our depth, but brought us up when prompted by the other announcer as teams that could surprise or be kind of under the radar in the East. Said we could easily get in the mix right after Miami/Chicago. Said we had quite a bit of talent stockpiled.
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  28. #148
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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Thought price played rather well last night, but more than anything it was great to have foster out there. If foster could play 30 minutes every game that would help our teams as much as anything

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Hopefully, Vogel will continue the rotations and basic offense. I SWEAR that Vogel read my comments. Lance and Price are pretty interchangable at the PG spot, but I REALLY prefer that Geroge Hill continues to spend time at the SG spot while PG and DJ backup Granger at the SF spot. Another that I like is that now with Foster is back, we don't have to continue to play D. West at the center spot with Hansbrough. The rotation of....

    Collison/Price or Stephenson
    George/Hill
    Granger/Jones/George
    West/Hansbrough
    Hibbert/Foster

    Should win us a good chunk of games. Also, I do believe that we should facilitate more of our half-court sets from the post with Hibbert. Hibbert is a VERY underrated passer, and will command double teams at times. As I stated before...our offense should be feed the ball to Hibbert, George attack the paint, and everyone else need to wait for the pass from Hibbert. As for Tyler...keep hitting those FTs and forcing their bigs into foul trouble. Tyler is one of those players, I wouldn't care if he doesn't get a single assist for the entire season. He keeps attacking the offense and chasing offensive rebounds so freaking much, Indiana is going to get a score one way or another. Not to mention that Tyler is averaging 1 SPG which ranks him 9th among PFs. Tyler is one those players who will average 10+ PPG and not have a SINGLE play called for him.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Celtics postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kester99 View Post
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    FWIW: Point guard +/- for the Pacers-Bulls series last year:

    Collison was -24 in around 150 minutes for the 5 games.
    AJ Price was -15 for about 80 minutes for the 5 games.
    TJ Ford was +7 in 14 minutes (dnp 3 gms).


    True, but Collison was playing most of his minutes against Rose and the Bulls first unit while Price was mostly playing against the second unit.

    I like Price though and wish we would play him more.

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