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Thread: Hollinger chat live now

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    But, but, the meme...

    OK, I vote to replace the haters smilie with this one.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    I will admit Tyler is my favorite player on the team but I honestly don't see anything wrong with his shot selection this year. He has missed tons of wide open jumpers which he should hit, has had several point blank shots roll off and has been blocked a few times in bad jump shots with the shot clock about to expire.

    I could see it he was talking contested shots or getting eating up by the defense or going 3-1 like Danny has done at times but he has the same amount of blocks against as West in 3 more shots and 1 more than Big Roy in 9 more attempts at not all his stuffs have came near the rim.
    Homers gonna homer.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Homers gonna homer.
    Is that hate speech?
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    I have a dream....

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Homers gonna homer.
    What's off with what I wrote, after all I have watched all the games you seen one? He's missing open shots he usually makes and its as simple as that!

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    But, but, the meme...

    OK, ok. Antagonism, oversimplification, and some chuckle worthy pictures.

    I guess we can all agree that there is a dire shortage of funny pictures on the Internet, so - carry on haters and hater-callers, carry on.
    Last edited by gummy; 01-05-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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  7. #32
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    I will admit Tyler is my favorite player on the team but I honestly don't see anything wrong with his shot selection this year. He has missed tons of wide open jumpers which he should hit, has had several point blank shots roll off and has been blocked a few times in bad jump shots with the shot clock about to expire.

    I could see it he was talking contested shots or getting eating up by the defense or going 3-1 like Danny has done at times but he has the same amount of blocks against as West in 3 more shots and 1 more than Big Roy in 9 more attempts at not all his stuffs have came near the rim.
    I don't think his shot selection has been worse this year than last year. I think it's the same. That's not good, but I don't think he's taken a step back and I don't think his selection is nearly as bad as Danny's.

    That said, despite Danny playing with his head so far up his *** even some of his biggest fans are worried, the single worst shot of the year, and probably the worst I've ever seen in person, still belongs to Tyler in the Cleveland game. The fact that I so clearly remember just how awful it was nearly a full week later is astounding. I'm sure it was mentioned in the game thread or post game thread but I'm not going to search for it. Quite frankly, it should have cost us the game were it not for an inexplicable miss by Kyrie Irving.

    This is off of memory so it may not be exact but I think it was about 1:40 to go in regulation. Pacers up by 2. 20 seconds left in the shot clock. Pass to Tyler on the left baseline, probably 12 feet out. Catch, turnaround contested jumper. Clank.

    There was zero comprehension of the situation. It was mind blowing. He simply caught the ball and did what he always does. There was no, "Well, we can get this look anytime we want, so I'll pass back out and run a little time off." He just caught it and tried to put it in the basket because come Hell or high water, that's what he does. Sometimes, he catches fire and it really helps us. Far more often, it doesn't.

    I've tried to avoid posting anything about Tyler for awhile because I'm clearly not his biggest fan and while I'll never lose my silly social stigma of being against him on this board, I really would like him to succeed. Because we need him to succeed. But that kind of crap is not a good way to endear yourself to people who skeptical.
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    I will admit Tyler is my favorite player on the team but I honestly don't see anything wrong with his shot selection this year. He has missed tons of wide open jumpers which he should hit, has had several point blank shots roll off and has been blocked a few times in bad jump shots with the shot clock about to expire.

    I could see it he was talking contested shots or getting eating up by the defense or going 3-1 like Danny has done at times but he has the same amount of blocks against as West in 3 more shots and 1 more than Big Roy in 9 more attempts at not all his stuffs have came near the rim.
    2 things that **** me off about Tyler. When he drives to the basket, he never looks to pass. Secondly, when he drives to the basket, he ALWAYS expects to get a foul call and will just toss up the shot without actually trying to get it in. It's all about drawing contact.

    Tyler has missed open shots, but he'll start to knock those down soon. I'd love to see him kick it out to an open wing when he drives, or for the love of God, actually try to make a basketball move with the intent to score instead of trying to draw a foul. Refs are catching on and aren't calling fouls as much now.
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher99 View Post
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    What's off with what I wrote, after all I have watched all the games you seen one? He's missing open shots he usually makes and its as simple as that!
    It's not that simple. The games when he makes more shots than he misses, are far closer to an anomaly than these games he's having now. I'm not sure this can even be considered a cold streak.

    Including the playoffs, last year he had just 28 games when he shot at least 50% from the field.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    What percentage of NBA players shoot better than 50%? You just described about 90% of the league.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    He can't keep missing this many wide open jumpers and point blank shots.

    Miami
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 19 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a driving layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 6 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 17 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 20 feet out.

    New Jersey
    Damion James blocks a Tyler Hansbrough layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 7 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 13 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 3 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Johan Petro blocks a Tyler Hansbrough jump shot from 4 feet out.
    Deron Williams blocks a Tyler Hansbrough layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 14 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 3 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 21 feet out.

    Detroit #2
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 18 feet out
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 17 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a hook shot from 3 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a putback dunk shot.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 20 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 7 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a tip shot.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 19 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 18 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 20 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot.
    Greg Monroe blocks a Tyler Hansbrough hook shot from 5 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a hook shot from 6 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a bank shot from 8 feet out

    Cleveland
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Tristan Thompson blocks a Tyler Hansbrough jump shot from 15 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 20 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 7 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 18 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a reverse layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot from 4 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 20 feet out
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 15 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 17 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 15 feet out.

    Toronto
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a hook shot from 5 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a hook shot from 5 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 18 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 20 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 17 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 17 feet out.

    Detroit
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 5 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a tip shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot from 2 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a layup shot.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a tip shot.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 7 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 15 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a jump shot from 18 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a layup shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 16 feet out.
    Tyler Hansbrough misses a tip shot from 1 foot out.
    Tyler Hansbrough makes a jump shot from 16 feet out.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It's not that simple. The games when he makes more shots than he misses, are far closer to an anomaly than these games he's having now. I'm not sure this can even be considered a cold streak.

    Including the playoffs, last year he had just 28 games when he shot at least 50% from the field.
    I also think Hans shoots better at the top of the key. Seems most of his shots are coming from the side. Maybe he just struggles with those shots.
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What percentage of NBA players shoot better than 50%? You just described about 90% of the league.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rder_by=fg_pct

    Of players at least 6'9" and played at least 20 minutes per game last year, about 48% shot better than 50% last season.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What percentage of NBA players shoot better than 50%? You just described about 90% of the league.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...der_by=efg_pct

    If you use eFG%, which is a better metric, to take into account the number of 3's these guys were shooting (not Hansbrough obviously) 63% of them were over 50% on the season.

    Tyler was 76th out of 86. Unfortunately Hibbert was 77th.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    This is off of memory so it may not be exact but I think it was about 1:40 to go in regulation. Pacers up by 2. 20 seconds left in the shot clock. Pass to Tyler on the left baseline, probably 12 feet out. Catch, turnaround contested jumper. Clank.
    99.9% sure that was under 10 on shot clock, Hill got the steal and 18 seconds later was the shot via NBA and Stats LLC.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rder_by=fg_pct

    Of players at least 6'9" and played at least 20 minutes per game last year, about 48% shot better than 50% last season.
    And let's take a look at some of those players that didn't.

    Chris Bosh. horrible.
    Al Jefferson. horrible.
    Andrew Bogut. horrible.
    Brook Lopez. horrible.
    Josh Smith. horrible.
    Rudy Gay. horrible.
    Kevin Love. horrible.
    Kevin Durant. horrible.

    Should I continue?

    Let's put it another way. Out of players who shot atleast 8 attempts per game, how many shot above 50%?

    19 out of 86, or a whopping 22%.

    So the majority of players that shoot above 50% aren't scorers for their teams, but rather guys who don't shoot that often.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    I'll say this- Of Tyler's shot selection, I'm glad he's missing close range shots instead of hoisting up a lower percentage shot that many times. If it has to be a missed shot, I like knowing he attacks the boards offensively or could get fouled instead of just throwing away a possession.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And let's take a look at some of those players that didn't.

    Chris Bosh. horrible.
    Al Jefferson. horrible.
    Andrew Bogut. horrible.
    Brook Lopez. horrible.
    Josh Smith. horrible.
    Rudy Gay. horrible.
    Kevin Love. horrible.
    Kevin Durant. horrible.

    Should I continue?

    Let's put it another way. Out of players who shot atleast 8 attempts per game, how many shot above 50%?

    19 out of 86, or a whopping 22%.

    So the majority of players that shoot above 50% aren't scorers for their teams, but rather guys who don't shoot that often.

    Uh no.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...der_by=efg_pct

    If you pare the list down to just players who took at least 8 shots, it cuts the number of players qualified down to 53.

    So 19 out of 53 shot at a straight shooting percentage of at least 50%. That's 36% of them.

    If you use eFG%, 31 out of the 53 were over 50%, or 58% of them. The only players below Hansbrough on that list are Roy Hibbert, JJ Hickson, Glen Davis, Andray Blatche, Drew Gooden, DeMarcus Cousins, and Travis Outlaw.

    No matter how you slice it, it's still far higher than the 10% that you suggested.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    You're right on the first part, I forgot to exclude the unqualifiers, but you're wrong on the second part.

    If you'll notice, you put the whole "above 6'9"" qualifier in there, one that I didn't have. I said the entire league.

    The point is that very few heavily relied on scorers shoot above 50%, and that's something you're now trying to criticize him for.

    If you want to say he needs to shoot a higher percentage, then okay. If you're going to start bashing him, because he isn't doing a vast majority of the league can't do, it's a whole different level.

    Which is BillS point from a different thread (I think) where you started bashing him for not shooting.

    You bash him for shooting too much.
    You bash him for not shooting at all.
    You bash him because he doesn't shoot 50%.
    You bash him because he's still a Pacer and Josh isn't.

    You just like bashing him, and you will use anything and everything in order to do it, whether it's relevant to the conversation or not.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    IS THERE ANYONE ON THIS TEAM ANYONE LIKES ANYMORE??? GEEZ

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You're right on the first part, I forgot to exclude the unqualifiers, but you're wrong on the second part.

    If you'll notice, you put the whole "above 6'9"" qualifier in there, one that I didn't have. I said the entire league.

    The point is that very few heavily relied on scorers shoot above 50%, and that's something you're now trying to criticize him for.

    If you want to say he needs to shoot a higher percentage, then okay. If you're going to start bashing him, because he isn't doing a vast majority of the league can't do, it's a whole different level.

    Which is BillS point from a different thread (I think) where you started bashing him for not shooting.

    You bash him for shooting too much.
    You bash him for not shooting at all.
    You bash him because he doesn't shoot 50%.
    You bash him because he's still a Pacer and Josh isn't.

    You just like bashing him, and you will use anything and everything in order to do it, whether it's relevant to the conversation or not.
    Well good thing Mackey is "wrong".

    Tyler is a limited player. What is "wrong" about that? I love the way he hustles and rebounds and tears people's heads off, but he is not that great. Mackey's metrics were "right" based on what he put in. Please stop telling everybody they are wrong for their opinion. And I agree with you most of the time. Your delivery is just very defensive.

    Tyler needs to show better decision making out on the floor just like the other nine guys I see getting minutes.
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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You're right on the first part, I forgot to exclude the unqualifiers, but you're wrong on the second part.

    If you'll notice, you put the whole "above 6'9"" qualifier in there, one that I didn't have. I said the entire league.

    The point is that very few heavily relied on scorers shoot above 50%, and that's something you're now trying to criticize him for.
    Wrong again.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._asc=&offset=0

    The 6'9" height qualifier was used for a reason. Big men should naturally shoot a higher percentage than guards. The thought is, shooting a higher portion of their shots from closer to the rim will result in a higher percentage. Taller guys, usually get better shots. It doesn't make sense to compare Hansbrough's shooting percentage to a bunch of point guards. But since that apparently doesn't jive with you, we can use every player in the NBA and the point still stands.

    449 players got playing time last season in the NBA. A full 100 of them shot over 50%. So 22% of all the players who played, did it.

    Using your cut off of 8 shots attempts per game, the total number is cut down to 153. Only 29 had a straight shooting percentage over 50%, so only 19% did it. Tyler was 53rd out of 153.

    However, using the better eFG% since we're comparing guards with big men now, 74 of these heavily relied on scorers had an eFG% of 50% or better or 48% of them. Tyler was 126th out of 153.

    Again, all of these numbers are still significantly higher than the 10% you suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    If you want to say he needs to shoot a higher percentage, then okay. If you're going to start bashing him, because he isn't doing a vast majority of the league can't do, it's a whole different level.

    Which is BillS point from a different thread (I think) where you started bashing him for not shooting.

    You bash him for shooting too much.
    You bash him for not shooting at all.
    You bash him because he doesn't shoot 50%.
    You bash him because he's still a Pacer and Josh isn't.

    You just like bashing him, and you will use anything and everything in order to do it, whether it's relevant to the conversation or not.
    First of all, it is not "bashing him," by posting his numbers in relationship to his peers. These are facts. Not insults. That is ridiculous. I've posted several numbers showing that his shooting percentage as a power forward, is not up to par. I haven't called him a flailing weirdo, or said his mom was fat. I've just showed that his performance is worthy of criticism, and have criticized that performance.

    He needs to shoot a higher percentage. I didn't realize that's all the elaboration this topic was allowed to have, but we'll roll with it. He needs to shoot a higher percentage.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    I find it funny that you're complaing about the lack of elaboration I'm supposedly not giving you, and you're busting my balls over the fact the difference between 78% (100/449) and 90% not shooting over 50%.

    My point, even exaggerated a bit, was a vast majority of NBA players don't shoot above 50%.

    You pass out snide comments like "homers gonna homer" and then turn around and do something equal, like try to bash someone for not shooting above 50%.

    It gets old to see you ***** about Tyler in every other thread.

    With that, I'm out.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I find it funny that you're complaing about the lack of elaboration I'm supposedly not giving you, and you're busting my balls over the fact the difference between 78% (100/449) and 90% not shooting over 50%.

    My point, even exaggerated a bit, was a vast majority of NBA players don't shoot above 50%.

    You pass out snide comments like "homers gonna homer" and then turn around and do something equal, like try to bash someone for not shooting above 50%.

    It gets old to see you ***** about Tyler in every other thread.

    With that, I'm out.
    You're point doesn't make sense though. By comparing a power forward to every player in the NBA when it comes to shooting percentages, you are failing to recognize the fact that some positions should shoot higher percentages than others.

    I don't expect every player in the NBA to shoot 50%. I don't expect every scorer in the league to shoot 50%. I don't even expect Tyler shoot 50%. I never said that I did. But when a guy is a career 43% shooter, it doesn't make any sense to pretend that he's in the midst of some cruel, and unusual shooting slump just because he's at below 40% right now.

    The "homers gonna homer" line was a joke, and based on the fact that he said Tyler is taking open jumpers he should hit. That's fine if you think he should hit them, but I don't know why you'd expect him to. When you consider the percentages that he shoots on jumpshots, it's far more likely that he's going to miss on these open looks, than he is going to hit them.

    Tyler has proven that he can get hot, and he will hit several shots in a row. He goes on good shooting streaks that might last a quarter, 2 quarters, a game, or even a week. He puts up good numbers, and has good efficiency because his shooting percentage for a power forward isn't near the bottom of the league.

    For some reason, when he has these streaks, everybody acts like that's just always how he is. He isn't. What's he's doing now, is really no farther from the norm than if he was a better than 50% shooter.

    His percentage will go up this season. He'll probably end up somewhere right around 45%, and still, he'll need to shoot a higher percentage. Unless sub-mediocrity is all we'll looking for, than by all means, be satisfied.

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    Default Re: Hollinger chat live now

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    IS THERE ANYONE ON THIS TEAM ANYONE LIKES ANYMORE??? GEEZ
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