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Thread: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    That trade machine is bunk, I just did Steve Nash for AJ Price just to see what it would say. It had us only going up 1 win and the Suns only dropping 3 wins.

    Yeah, cause Steve Nash is only worth 3 wins over AJ Price...
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Speaking of the Trade Machine, this sounds like Chad Ford and Bill Simmons have been playing on it. I don't see any substance to this as a rumor, just guys talking, aka it would never happen.

    I would say this watching 38 yr old Nash play, he's still excellent.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    I also love when people say "If Nash was 30/34 hell yeah" well, Nash at 30/34 would at least require half of the team and a bunch of picks to even make Phoenix think about it.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    This is a really interesting proposal. Obviously, we all know what Nash can do, and saying that he probably gets us to the ECF this year is completely believable. But, at his age, and because this is Indiana, I don't see a real future in this deal. Yes, we have George Hill, but if he were good enough to start in place of DC, he'd be starting in place of DC now.

    I am personally a big fan of DC, so that adds in here, but I struggle to believe that adding Nash now would be worth it. This team is much improved over last year, but it's still not a true title contender, even with the addition of a 37-38 year old Nash. I think if we're going to make a deal to improve at PG, let's shoot for Rondo or DWill. It will obviously take more than just DC to get either of those two, but given their age and talent level, I think they fit in here much better with the future of this franchise. As much as I like DC, I'd be happy to have Rondo, and absolutely ecstatic to get Deron Williams. Nash is fun to watch, and is really an all-time talent, but I just don't think he fits in with this team at this point of his career.
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    What KStat said, though this would be a horrific trade for the Suns.
    I don't get it. What are they really gonna get for a 38 year old Nash that's any better? Better to let him play out the year and leave for nothing?

    Its a win now move... most contending teams lack good young talent to send. Most teams with young talent have no use for a 38 year old Nash.

    The Pacers are in a unique, best of both worlds situation here. We have young talent and we are trying to win now.
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by drewdawg View Post
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    Did the trade on ESPN's trade machine. While we all have varying opinions on Hollinger according to his analysis getting Nash for Collison would decrease the Pacers projected wins by 5 and increase the Suns by 5. Found that interesting and I'm not big on the per stat but that does backup my belief that it wouldn't be that good of a trade.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=83qk7z6
    Even Hollinger would tell you that the sample space is way too small to draw any valid conclusions about PER.
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    I guess it all depends on if DC can turn into the PG we need to contend. He still has alot of potential and he could turn into that still.

    Steve Nash has maybe 3 more good years in him at the most. It would be risky but there is always Lance waiting to be a star

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    If it's still available, I wouldn't mind revisiting this deal at the deadline, when we have more evidence to base our decision on. Why act now?
    The sooner the better.....it takes time for any Player to assimilate into the offense/defense.

    We have a 2 year window IMHO.....making the best run at the earliest time at a Championship is the best route to take while everyone is as young ( or old ) as they are.
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Speaking of the Trade Machine, this sounds like Chad Ford and Bill Simmons have been playing on it. I don't see any substance to this as a rumor, just guys talking, aka it would never happen.

    I would say this watching 38 yr old Nash play, he's still excellent.
    PnR with Nash and West..oh my.

    As much as I like DC, I think you have to do it. Nash can bring much more to this team than simply making the team as a whole better. I think he has the ability to make individual players better. Plus, Nash has those same intangibles that West and Foster have, it would be nice to have more of that in the locker room.

    Not only that, but having Nash on the team certainly increases the chance that this team goes pretty far in the playoffs. Which is fantastic experience for our younger guys. And when the time comes, we'll have the ability to get a PG the same level as DC.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Unless you think Darren Collison is a future all-star, this is a no-brainer move. 2 years of steve nash is worth 10 of what collison is currently giving.

    This is all a moot point though, unless Sarver is willing to let his franchise player go and lose ticket sales, which he has been unwilling to do as of yet.
    IMHO.......unless Sarver thinks that the Suns can win it all this season with Nash and a roster that won't likely improve ( they are over the cap and have long-term contracts that won't likely be moved )...than IMHO, it would make more sense to put Nash on the Trading Block to see what he can get for him.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Sarver is the owner. He does not need common sense to keep Nash in Phoenix.

    There have been zero (public) discussions about moving Nash, because Sarver has said more than once that Nash isn't going anywhere.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    i think for Sarver its the same thing that Orlando is going through....you're weighing the option of getting something for your player vs. selling no tickets at all and not being relevant in the media coverage.

    By holding on until the trade deadline you can get something for him and get the most out of his fan appeal before he leaves.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    I reluctantly would NOT do the deal.

    Fisrt, as it has been and will be said a million times, Nash is almost 38. He's only got a couple declining years left then he's done.

    Also, Darren AS A ROOKIE averaged 18.8 ppg and 9.1 apg as a starter!!!!! I know it's a fairly small sample size, (37 games) but those are compareable numbers to Nash IN HIS PRIME, and it gives you a glimpse of what he could be.

    Last, you guys complain about DC's defense all the time, well Nash's D is gonna be 10x worse than his.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    I mean, surely its better to move Nash for a young asset and suck your way into a better draft pick this year... positioning yourself much better for the rebuild.

    Or you could hold onto Nash, finish just outside the playoffs and lose out on a top ten lottery selection... then lose Nash for nothing in the off season. Surely Sarver isn't that stupid? Right?
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    i think for Sarver its the same thing that Orlando is going through....you're weighing the option of getting something for your player vs. selling no tickets at all and not being relevant in the media coverage.

    By holding on until the trade deadline you can get something for him and get the most out of his fan appeal before he leaves.
    It's nothing close to what orlando is going through. Nash is 38 years old. Phoenix will offer more than any other team will offer to retain him if Sarver wants him back next summer.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Or you could hold onto Nash, finish just outside the playoffs and lose out on a top ten lottery selection... then lose Nash for nothing in the off season. Surely Sarver isn't that stupid? Right?
    ...you do realize this is the same robert sarver that essentially sold both Luol Deng and Rajon Rondo on draft night so he'd stay below the luxury tax....

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    That trade machine is bunk, I just did Steve Nash for AJ Price just to see what it would say. It had us only going up 1 win and the Suns only dropping 3 wins.

    Yeah, cause Steve Nash is only worth 3 wins over AJ Price...
    I can't remember the deal's specifics, but there was one with AJ + Dahntay for 2 other scrubs, just shuffling of bench fodder pretty much, and each team had +17 wins. I dunno, maybe it's because it's using this season's numbers and the incredible small sample size is screwing it up.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    I reluctantly would NOT do the deal.

    Fisrt, as it has been and will be said a million times, Nash is almost 38. He's only got a couple declining years left then he's done.

    Also, Darren AS A ROOKIE averaged 18.8 ppg and 9.1 apg as a starter!!!!! I know it's a fairly small sample size, (37 games) but those are compareable numbers to Nash IN HIS PRIME, and it gives you a glimpse of what he could be.

    Last, you guys complain about DC's defense all the time, well Nash's D is gonna be 10x worse than his.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Numbers aside, Nash looks really old this season. He really looks like a shell of his former self, even compared to last season. He's having trouble getting passes off, which I've never seen.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Nash has been dealing with a nagging rib injury this year. He said that it was still affecting the way he is playing. That is the reason for his numbers being low so far.

    I would make the move. I would also see if they wanted to throw in Grant Hill while they are at it. Both are expiring. Both improve areas of "need". They would both be ultimate professionals.
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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
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    Also, Darren AS A ROOKIE averaged 18.8 ppg and 9.1 apg as a starter!!!!! I know it's a fairly small sample size, (37 games) but those are compareable numbers to Nash IN HIS PRIME, and it gives you a glimpse of what he could be.
    Wow. Just imagine how good Collison will be when he's no longer a rookie.....

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I can't remember the deal's specifics, but there was one with AJ + Dahntay for 2 other scrubs, just shuffling of bench fodder pretty much, and each team had +17 wins. I dunno, maybe it's because it's using this season's numbers and the incredible small sample size is screwing it up.
    Currently Price has a 65.43 PER. I imagine that has something to do with it.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Defensively we would lose quite a bit, and that's saying something considering that DC may be the worst defender on the team (although he has very quick hands and can pick up quite a few steals)

    Offensively, Nash would do wonders in the Pick and Pop game w/ D.West/Hansbrough as well as the pick and roll game of Hibbert. Also we would be able to pick up AT LEAST 8-10 more points off the fast break that we consistently lose out on due to Collison's lack of open court passing ability.

    Also, Nash is as consistent of a shooter as it gets (3pt, mid range, and FT) which would definitely help during the times when our offense bogs down.

    Personally, I do think it would be a good trade for both teams, but I would understand any hesitation for completing the trade given the age discrepancy of the two players.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Here's the problem with this trade for the Pacers: our future success is dependent on PG and Hibbert's development. That's going to take at least another 2-3 years. Nash would help a ton this season, but in 2-3 years he'll be a ghost of his former self, if he's still even in the league. Not to mention the fact he could bolt for another team after this season. The timing just doesn't work. Nash's window and the Pacer's window don't line up. We're not in win-now mode yet, and trading for Nash would be a win-now move.

    And to add to that I don't think we've seen all DC has to offer. In my opinion he has made significant improvement since last season on both sides of the ball, and could continue to improve. I actually think he's been one of the best players on the team this season so far. No he will never be the traditional PG like Nash with the ability to make the rest of his team better. But look around the league, there are very few PG's like that left anymore. You don't NEED a traditional PG to win in today's NBA.

    I wouldn't jump so quickly to say the Sun's wouldn't do this. Like Kstat said, this is Sarver we're talking about. And its not like the Suns have a lot of fans left to lose if they trade Nash. I live in Phoenix and a good portion of the Suns fans that are still left here actually want to see Nash traded. Suns fans aren't stupid, they realize nothing is gonna happen here before Nash retires. They don't want to see him waste the last few years of his career. This isn't like Dwight or Lebron abandoning their teams.

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    Default Re: Steve Nash for Darren Collison - Chad Ford thinks it makes sense

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    This is a really interesting proposal. Obviously, we all know what Nash can do, and saying that he probably gets us to the ECF this year is completely believable. But, at his age, and because this is Indiana, I don't see a real future in this deal. Yes, we have George Hill, but if he were good enough to start in place of DC, he'd be starting in place of DC now.

    I am personally a big fan of DC, so that adds in here, but I struggle to believe that adding Nash now would be worth it. This team is much improved over last year, but it's still not a true title contender, even with the addition of a 37-38 year old Nash. I think if we're going to make a deal to improve at PG, let's shoot for Rondo or DWill. It will obviously take more than just DC to get either of those two, but given their age and talent level, I think they fit in here much better with the future of this franchise. As much as I like DC, I'd be happy to have Rondo, and absolutely ecstatic to get Deron Williams. Nash is fun to watch, and is really an all-time talent, but I just don't think he fits in with this team at this point of his career.

    I HIGHLY doubt that DWill would want to play here. It's a sad, but true fact. He wants to do what the other superstars are doing in this league and that's play in a fairly large market, next to another superstar. As far as Rondo is concerned, if you've seen ANY celtic games this year, you know there's no way in HELL the C's are trading that guy unless they get A LOT of talent (SUPERSTAR TALENT) back in return. He's playing lights out.

    The only way I truly see the Pacers ever getting a SUPERSTAR PG is through a trade, or through the draft.

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