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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    What, no postgame thread when we lose?

    Come on guys, let's learn to eat our spinach.

    Well, it wasn't fun to watch, but those who've watched this sport long enough know some nights just aren't your night. Win streaks don't usually last very long and teams that haven't won in a while get desperate.

    Jerepko seems to be some kind of super human creature on steroids. At least against us.

    The next game will be instructive. Remember how many times Mark Jackson would say: We're a veteran team and we don't allow a loss to get us too low? (Or something like that).

    Let's see how much better we've gotten by how we react to this loss.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    I really hope this loss gets the team thinking about how they shouldn't take the lesser teams for granted. We showed that if we would have played the way we played towards the end of the game we could have beat them easily. I actually liked the way we came out to start the game, we had a lot of energy and weren't gonna let them think they could get their first win. Then we brought in the bench and things just seemed to collapse. I never knew Jerebko was capable of such things, he could become their go-to guy. I will admit I got pretty mad during the game, but after cooling down I realize that we can't win every game.... As long as we keep a winning record I'm good I guess.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    What can you say? Pretty freakin' ugly loss. This is to be expected with a young team, but that is in no way an excuse for 40 minutes of uninspired play. All things considered, however, I expect a win over NJ Monday and a very competitive game Wednesday against the Heat. Growing pains, people. Growing Pains. If you don't see maturation at game 30, be worried. For now, relax...

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    What, no postgame thread when we lose?

    Come on guys, let's learn to eat our spinach.

    Well, it wasn't fun to watch, but those who've watched this sport long enough know some nights just aren't your night. Win streaks don't usually last very long and teams that haven't won in a while get desperate.

    Jerepko seems to be some kind of super human creature on steroids. At least against us.

    The next game will be instructive. Remember how many times Mark Jackson would say: We're a veteran team and we don't allow a loss to get us too low? (Or something like that).

    Let's see how much better we've gotten by how we react to this loss.
    It's a good point. Lets strive for no back to back losses.

    In all honesty, the only way we'll win with our offense as it is is with defense. We had it the first 3 games and we got torched tonight. No defense no win. It does beg the question, when will offense become the focal point of the coaching staff. Vogel said there is too much one on one basketball going on, but we had the same problem under JOB. Is this a team problem or coaching problem or just a give it time problem?

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    Talking Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    What, no postgame thread when we lose?

    Come on guys, let's learn to eat our spinach.

    Well, it wasn't fun to watch, but those who've watched this sport long enough know some nights just aren't your night. Win streaks don't usually last very long and teams that haven't won in a while get desperate.

    Jerepko seems to be some kind of super human creature on steroids. At least against us.

    The next game will be instructive. Remember how many times Mark Jackson would say: We're a veteran team and we don't allow a loss to get us too low? (Or something like that).

    Let's see how much better we've gotten by how we react to this loss.


    +1
    Speaking of Mark Jackson, I just aquired his '88-'89 Fleer rookie card in mint..

    Last edited by Kemo; 01-01-2012 at 02:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    If Granger is going to shoot 30% from the field all season long we won't get too far.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    If Granger is going to shoot 30% from the field all season long we won't get too far.
    And only occasionally play defense. And turn the ball over. And practice his best Carlos Boozer imitations. And really only step up in the last two minutes.

    Granger's play drives me crazy. Theoretically, he should be more invested on defense this year because he has less pressure on offense but, no. His effort is half-there at best. This is why people wanted to trade him last year. This is why I think they should still try to trade him, provided they can get a good deal in return of course.

    As I've said several times, Granger is a clutch player. But he is not a particularly smart player, nor is he really playing up to the value of his contract.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    +1
    Speaking of Mark Jackson, I just aquired his '88-'89 Fleer rookie card in mint..

    Mark Jacksons son plays at Louisville and looks just like him

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    What, no postgame thread when we lose?

    New year's eve.

    There will be plenty of postgame threads with future losses.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    I missed the game tonight. Why did Roy only get 7 shots?

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I missed the game tonight. Why did Roy only get 7 shots?
    The ball movement was terrible. Danny Granger and David West spent the entire night trying to force mismatches they didn't have. It trickled down to the bench when guys like Amundson and Dahntay Jones started jacking up bad shots.

    Whether that falls on the players or the coach, I have no idea. It could have been part of the gameplan.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Why did Roy only get 7 shots?

    Thats a very valid question. Maybe Vogel has answer for it. What position players job, moreso than others, is it to get the ball to Hibbert?

    Another thing was that Hibbert couldn't hold position when Wallace guarding him at times. This has always been a major weakness of Hibbert... lack of strength.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Jerepko seems to be some kind of super human creature on steroids. At least against us.
    I still don't quite get this line of thinking.

    Jonas is a good player, and he spent 18 straight months since his last real NBA action working his *** off trying to improve his range, which seems to have produced results.

    That said, Jonas did not make one contested shot all game long. He never attempted one.

    His performance tonight was less about him making great plays and more about him running David West into the ground. He didn't suddenly get stronger since last week. West simply could not deal with his constant motion off the ball. and he seemed unwilling to step out on the perimeter and give up the drive. Jonas had time to set his feet and measure on practically every shot.

    It might be best for Vogel to limit West's minutes on the 2nd game of back-to-backs, if his knees are really bothering him this much on zero rest.

    Also, Tyler is playing too fast right now. He had similar opportunities all game, but he was rushing his shots when he didn't have to, and plowing into guys that were already set defensively. I realize he's the only guy on Indiana's 2nd unit that can effectively create his own offense, but his one real weakness in the NBA seems to be that he still hasn't learned to slow himself down and let the game come to him. He makes some routine plays look very difficult.
    Last edited by Kstat; 01-01-2012 at 02:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I still don't quite get this line of thinking.

    Jonas is a good player, and he spent 18 straight months since his last real NBA action working his *** off trying to improve his range, which seems to have produced results.

    That said, Jonas did not make one contested shot all game long. He never attempted one.

    His performance tonight was less about him making great plays and more about him running David West into the ground. He didn't suddenly get stronger since last week. West simply could not deal with his constant motion off the ball. and he seemed unwilling to step out on the perimeter and give up the drive. Jonas had time to set his feet and measure on practically every shot.

    It might be best for Vogel to limit West's minutes on the 2nd game of back-to-backs, if his knees are really bothering him this much on zero rest.

    Also, Tyler is playing too fast right now. He had similar opportunities all game, but he was rushing his shots when he didn't have to, and plowing into guys that were already set defensively. I realize he's the only guy on Indiana's 2nd unit that can effectively create his own offense, but his one real weakness in the NBA seems to be that he still hasn't learned to slow himself down and let the game come to him. He makes some routine plays look very difficult.
    Seems like Detroit always drafts good players in the 2nd rd. Starting with Tom Van Arsdale out of Indy and all the way up to today. Seems like every few years the Pistons find a steal in the 2nd rd. Dennis Rodman was a gem in the 2nd round back in the 80s more recently. Okur and Amir Johnson and most recently Jonas Jerebko they have been a very good team at finding good guys in rd 2. Wonder when Singler will come over he is playing good for Madrid.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    This is why I posted in the game thread:

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    By the way not trying to be a "hater" here but I expected West to have a horrible game in a back to back, they need to find a way to get him fresh or don't play him at all(NY is going to do it with Amare) at least he has the knee excuse unlike Danny Granger who is sucking again.

    Hill,DC and Tyler were the only ones today that kept us in the game.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    His performance tonight was less about him making great plays and more about him running David West into the ground. He didn't suddenly get stronger since last week. West simply could not deal with his constant motion off the ball. and he seemed unwilling to step out on the perimeter and give up the drive. Jonas had time to set his feet and measure on practically every shot.

    It might be best for Vogel to limit West's minutes on the 2nd game of back-to-backs, if his knees are really bothering him this much on zero rest.
    This, yep they need to find a way to make it work in a back to back.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This, yep they need to find a way to make it work in a back to back.
    I could be completely off base here, because I didn't watch Friday's game against the Cavaliers a 2nd time and sometimes being at the game I don't pick up on everything because of distractions. But I remember thinking sometime around the fourth after we had built a double digit lead and had the 2nd team in who seemed to lose the lead that it seemed like Frank probably had hoped to roll through with those guys. Cavs cut it close and forced Franks hand and eventually had to go to overtime with the starters. Flight shenanigans ensued and it was an ugly back to back situation. Not making excuses here. Our supposedly super deep team needs to be able to hold onto that lead against a Cavaliers team. Might help West a bit in these back to backs to get Foster back.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Defense had been good through three games, but it failed us last night. Detroit was getting whatever it wanted at will - in the paint or shot after uncontested perimeter shot. The O hasn't been there at all, but D has to be foundation you build upon. Hence the loss in Motown. No energy = no D.

    The only big picture concern I have for us at this early stage is the shooting issue. Not just the whole when are we going to start making some shots. But also, equally important, we honestly could benefit from a true, dead-eye jump shooter. That way, when most everyone else is off, there's someone who can hit an occasional shot...especially the open ones. Right now I've become much more focused on this issue than the backup 5 situation, despite no Foster or Pendergraph yet.
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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    The only big picture concern I have for us at this early stage is the shooting issue. Not just the whole when are we going to start making some shots. But also, equally important, we honestly could benefit from a true, dead-eye jump shooter. That way, when most everyone else is off, there's someone who can hit an occasional shot...especially the open ones. Right now I've become much more focused on this issue than the backup 5 situation, despite no Foster or Pendergraph yet.
    I don't see it so much as needing a dead-eye shooter. I think we need an offensive creator. DC has gotten a little better and George Hill is adequate, but neither can really make things happen.

    Lance can. But it appears to me he is considered "good" when he plays cautious like those other two guys. I think he needs a longer leash, the freedom to make things happen, make some mistakes, and slowly grow into a role that creates offense for a team that otherwise cannot do so.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I don't see it so much as needing a dead-eye shooter. I think we need an offensive creator. DC has gotten a little better and George Hill is adequate, but neither can really make things happen.

    Lance can. But it appears to me he is considered "good" when he plays cautious like those other two guys. I think he needs a longer leash, the freedom to make things happen, make some mistakes, and slowly grow into a role that creates offense for a team that otherwise cannot do so.
    I agree that we need some kind of creator. Preferably in the form of a better PG. Though I suppose even a Jamal Crawford type would help.

    I don't think we can count on Lance for any sort of immediate help though. He still looks very raw out there.
    Last edited by wintermute; 01-01-2012 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    The reason we lost this game is simple really, we didn't crash the offensive boards nearly as effectively as we had our last three games. When you shoot a poor percentage offensively you need to capitalize on second chance points, and we didn't even give ourselves the chance to do so this game. However as the year progresses I have no doubt that our shots will start falling, which will minimize our reliance on second chance points.

    Happy New Year everyone! Hopefully we are due for a great year of Pacer basketball!

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Would also like to add that's two solid offensive games in a row from DC. 20 assists over last two plus some 3s. Hill & Tyler again good off the bench (despite Tyler's continued shooting slump).RH, DG, PG, DW were more or less out to lunch offensively in this one.

    We've been talking about this great bench, but it's not a complete second unit. In fact, it's not a deep bench at all. It's basically Hill & Hansbrough. We're a 7 man team, and I don't think that changes much if the two injured bigs get back, at least not in terms of offensive production. With the compacted schedule, it could turn into a major disadvantage for us.
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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    I actually feel Granger's D and passing have looked better through the first four games. I think he looks more engaged in those areas. Rebounding is also important. He's done okay there. JMO, but that's been my observation. What I still can't stand is him leading the break. That's a recipe for a turnover every time. Find the PG and fill the lane or trail (unless it's an open breakout).
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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I actually feel Granger's D and passing have looked better through the first four games. I think he looks more engaged in those areas. Rebounding is also important. He's done okay there. JMO, but that's been my observation. What I still can't stand is him leading the break. That's a recipe for a turnover every time. Find the PG and fill the lane or trail (unless it's an open breakout).
    He just doesn't seem to give that full game effort to me, ever. And he's not a smart basketball player. Nice guy. Clutch as hell. Great secondary option on a lot of teams...I just think the Pacers should look to trade him while his value's still high, if they get reasonable compensation. Not saying they would. I just wouldn't shed any tears if he was parlayed into, say, the kind of PG the Pacers really need.

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    Default Re: Postgame Thread Pacers-Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I actually feel Granger's D and passing have looked better through the first four games. I think he looks more engaged in those areas. Rebounding is also important. He's done okay there. JMO, but that's been my observation. What I still can't stand is him leading the break. That's a recipe for a turnover every time. Find the PG and fill the lane or trail (unless it's an open breakout).
    Yeah, having Granger or Dahntay lead a fast break always gets me scared. Those two will either not look for someone to pass it to or they will wait too long and make a bad pass. There are so many times when Danny draws a double team and doesn't even notice the open guy which makes me kinda mad.

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