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Thread: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

  1. #1
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    I'm probably wasting my time there, so I thought I'd let you all take a shot at this. Here are the thoughts of a Nets fan on a thread debating who is better between us and New Jersey:

    Martin is averaging 18 points and 10 boards per game.

    He's also shooting it at 50% from the floor.

    Statistically, he's even with O'Neal, who's averaging 20/10, but shooting the ball at a miserable 43% clip. O'Neal is a better player, but you're seriously underrating Kenyon Martin. Not to mention Martin is also a better passer than Jermaine.

    Artest is even worse from the field- 41.9%. His steals + blocks per game are the same as Martins. Like Artest, Martin is more of an on the ball defender. O'Neal for example, gets his blocks through team defense. Martin averages 18 points per game. Artest is at 17.9. 9.9 boards per game for Martin to 5.3 for Ron.

    Jefferson is not MUCH better than Harrington, but he has been averaging 18 per game for the last three months and has developed 3 point range. He's also a good passer, dishing out three per ball game.

    Kidd is an impact player- a walking triple double who can take over games even more so than O'Neal. Again I reference the 43.5% shooting of Jermaine. Terrible for an all-star power forward who is supposed to be a dominant low post player.

    Martin has the ability to shut down Jermaine, and come playoff time he could very well do this.
    What do you think?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Martin may have hte ability to shut down Jermaine, like the playoff series a few years ago in the first round, but has he lately???

    Jermaine is no longer 1D. He can go anywhere now and hit it...

    Pacers > Nets

    The reason

    [marq=left:aeb8c18fa1]THE X-FACTOR[/marq]

    WE

    HAVE

    ANTHONY JOHNSON


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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    I'll wait until after the "we just fired the coach" phase. Yes they are 7-0 since they hired Franks, but we don't know if that is just his coaching or if players are using the firing as motivation...
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    Member indytoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Martin may have hte ability to shut down Jermaine, like the playoff series a few years ago in the first round, but has he lately???

    Jermaine is no longer 1D. He can go anywhere now and hit it...

    Pacers > Nets

    The reason

    [marq=left:1c588523fa]THE X-FACTOR[/marq]

    WE

    HAVE

    ANTHONY JOHNSON

    We also have the Z-factor:

    PRIMOZ!!

    Plus, what naturallystoned said. Remember how good the Raps were for a couple weeks after that trade? NJ's game vs. Detroit should be a good gauge.

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  5. #5
    Southside_Pacer
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    This year

    acers: >

    I've never liked to use the theory that just because a team was better last year, they're still the better team until somebody knocks them off in the future. Teams are different each year, players are different each year as they grow and mature, coaches come and go for better or for worse. I'm sure the following season after MJ retired, and they dismantled their championship team that they weren't still the best in the East from what they did the previous season.

    The Nets have won the East the past two seasons, but those teams are in the past. Right now the Pacers have the best record in the East, we've won at New Jersey twice, we've got two All Stars, and the coach who's coaching in the All Star game. Right now the Pacers are the better team, but the question is will we hold onto it.

  6. #6
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    and their style of basketball is the kind most likely to be able to handle the Pacers in any playoff series.
    What, their legendary half-court game? Surely we won't let them run on us in that series any more than we let them the last time we played them. I don't think they ran too much then. They had spurts, but we cut it off from them later and won the game.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    We were the better team at this point last season too. I know, I know, everything is different this year. But you can't underestimate the talent New Jersey has, and their style of basketball is the kind most likely to be able to handle the Pacers in any playoff series.
    but they don't have Anthony Johnson anymore...

    WE DO!

  8. #8
    Southside_Pacer
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    But like I did say, what a difference a year can make for a team.

    We've eclipsed our start from last season, our players are older and more mature, and we've got a better coaching staff in my opinion.

    I'm not sold on the Nets, they were only 1 game above .500 not too long ago and I think they're riding some serious mojo.

  9. #9
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    and their style of basketball is the kind most likely to be able to handle the Pacers in any playoff series.
    What, their legendary half-court game? Surely we won't let them run on us in that series any more than we let them the last time we played them. I don't think they ran too much then. They had spurts, but we cut it off from them later and won the game.
    You act like I'm a Net fan or something. I was at the first New Jersey game. They're more than capable of beating us, especially the way Jefferson has improved his range the last couple months. I expect us to beat them in a series. I wouldn't be quite as surprised as many if they beat us.
    Where did I say you were a Net fan?

    If my post seemed strong, it's because it was. But that's only because I was taken back a bit when you said their style is the type that beats us. I'd say Milwaukee has the type of game that beats us. They run, they flourish. We play great team D and get back on defense well.

    I was at the 1st NJ game (in Indy, that is) too, and well, I can't say that game was much of a measuring stick. We played like ***, Ron barely played, and it was scrubs vs starters most of the 4th. What I'm saying is it wasn't exactly your typical Nets vs Pacers game.

    I agree though that Jefferson is dangerous as ever, if not moreso.

    However, the flip side to that is he can't guard Ron or Al to save his life, and he's a good defender. The reason I say that is while he could frustrate both on the outside, if either posts him up he's done.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    "btowncolt I expect us to beat them in a series. I wouldn't be quite as surprised as many if they beat us.
    I can't argue with that logic... nor can I argue with a Purple Hippo doing a slap dance anyway!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    The purple hippo claims another victim........
    We have too many weak minded posters... ed:
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  12. #12
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Personally I think that when you start comparing Kidd to JO you are comparing things you can not compare, so I'll leave that one out of the equasion.
    Martin or Jefferson are both 100 to 1 shots to stop JO come play-off, I for one remeber his play in the last one, it wasn't JO that lost those series

    As for the comparison with Ron ? where Ron is candidate for Defensive player of the year those guys are not even in the running, despite the fact that they put up the same offensive numbers. And as we've seen last night, percentages don't mean the world.

    The fail to mention the rest of the Pacers, I mean I can understand him running out of options on comparison, but I believe we have some more "intangibles" such as there are Al ? (let's forget all other players on the team )

    Oh yeah no uhh oops 43 % 3 pt shooting over the season mr. Clutch himself got completely overlooked there to, geeeez

    MOUAH, not worth considering this hopefull recap of the nets, Let them try and get even in the series against them first, no matter how "hot" they are right now, let's see them playing some real opponents first, until now they all faded away after a nice run, and the P's are still there.

    They are (just recently) the only team with a winning record in their division and their road record is just one game on the plus, please come back when you're less then 7.5 games behind, they would barely be in third positions in the Central division.

    And finally let's look somewhat closer to their last 10:

    @ San Antonio L 99-76 .654
    @ Miami L 85-64 .404
    Boston W 110-91 .442
    @ Philadelphia W 94-76 .404
    @ Orlando W 89-79 .245
    @ Houston W 88-77 .580
    @ New Orleans W 91-70 .529
    Miami W 99-88 .404
    Orlando W 120-99 .245
    Philadelphia W 99-87 .404

    Average percentage today of those opponents: .431

    the loss against Miami is just as bad as the win over Houston is good, but the rest ? sorry, I'm not impressed, had they gone any worse they would have a hard time getting to the play offs at all.

    as for the pacers: (7 -3)

    @ Atlanta W 100-97 .327
    Detroit W 81-69 .635
    Houston L 78-74 .580
    @ Washington L 107-96 .327
    Phoenix W 101-79 .340
    Boston W 99-98 .442
    L.A. Lakers W 85-72 .625
    @ New York L 97-90 .481
    @ Toronto W 83-77 .490
    Miami W 97-91 .404

    Average percentage today of those opponents: .465

    Naw, again, not impressed

    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  13. #13
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    I think one thing that is being overlooked is...How will the Jersey coaching staff make adjustments. I believe that Lawrence F. will have his metal tested when our point guards stay in front of Kidd and slow down the break. I still say that we will pound the inside with J.O. then when their guards come to double....move the ball for a gold mine of open shots. I just hope we can knock them down!!!
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    What a bunch of crap. That person is just trying to justify his claim that they are better. He seems to have not mentioned a few details.

    How is he even with JO??? I don't even see that. Martin is a good player, yes, but he is NOT in JO's league. JO is top 5 big man in the league. He can take over a game himself and win it. I don't see KMart doing that.

    Martin is more of an on the ball defender? Last time I checked, defense was played by guarding the guy with the ball....hmm...and you can't really add steals and blocks together. JO is a better blocker than KM, and it really doesnt matter how you get them. Fact is, he changes peoples shots frequently, KM doesnt. Is he suggesting he is a better defender than JO or Artest? Ha. Fat chance. Artest is arguably the best in the league, and JO is up there with Duncan.

    RJ has been doing well, and he and Al probably negate each other. If you make the case RJ is a decent passer, than you can say Al is a decent rebounder.

    Kidd is an impact player, yes, but he's still not in JO's league. Last time I checked, JK's FG% was somewhere below 40..hmm...ah yes, 39.7. Well well.

    Martin has done well against JO in the past, but in the playoffs, JO just gets on fire. I think I remember 24 and 17 last year...
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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    But I digress. Until someone beats them in the playoffs, they're the best team in the East.
    I disagree. Winning never proves you are the best except at the moment you won. Winning the East simply made them the champion until they are beaten, it doesn't make them the best. Who is best is decided at the end, not the start, not mid year.

  16. #16
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Who knows, we'll find out duruing the playoffs.

    But I find it interesting that that guy compared Martin to both Artest and J.O. and then compared Jefferson to AL. That is not fair. Compare Kmart to J.O and Artest to Jefferson and AL to Rodney Rogers.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Who knows, we'll find out duruing the playoffs.

    But I find it interesting that that guy compared Martin to both Artest and J.O. and then compared Jefferson to AL. That is not fair. Compare Kmart to J.O and Artest to Jefferson and AL to Rodney Rogers.
    Well, UB, he can't do that, can he? That would mean that all 3 of ours would be better....and YOU know that the Nets are the best team...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  18. #18
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    To me, being in the Finals the last two years only means they're the East Champs until someone else gets there. But it doesn't make them the best in the East. They simply have the title of ECC right now.

  19. #19
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    Season Series:

    Nov 6, Win. 87-81.
    Dec 27, Loss. 82-75.
    Jan 17, Win. 90-84.
    Apr 9, ???

    So we're up 2 to 1, all games by 6 or 7 points. Unless we get blown out in that last game, I'd say it's pretty hard to argue that we're not the better team, although it will definately be a fight if we meet in the playoffs.

    As far as Martin's 18 ppg being the same as JO's 20 ppg, I don't think so. When Martin consistently gets those on his own rather than feeding off Kidd for layups and dunks, I'll believe. But a big man playing with Kidd gets a few extra ppg.
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  20. #20
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    nets demons still alive and well in the minds of pacer fans? hope they're not preying on the minds of pacer players at least

    san antonio shut down the nets in the finals last year, and i think it's been mentioned that our style this year is much like the spurs. nets are basically still the same team for the past 2 seasons. some (esp. nets fans) take this to mean that they're still best in the east. to me, though, it seems to indicate that they're still the same not-good-enough team. they're pretty tough, but they can't play above a certain level imo. i still think detroit is more of a threat.

  21. #21
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    One trade & one trade only is all that it takes for me to think that we could slap the Nets back to the lottery from which they came.

    Anyway we could get Dale Davis on our team & they would have no hope.

    Ok, damnit so sue me. Dale is on the block & we all know that I must by law at the feet of Dale Davis.


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  22. #22
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers >, <, or = Nets?

    san antonio shut down the nets in the finals last year,
    A lot of that had to do with Parker and Speedy Claxton, they both had the speed to bother Kidd. In fact in some of the games Kidd was outplayed.

    We can play with the spurs, but we don't have anyone that can really bother Kidd, let alone outplay him. The only other player we can't handle or at least neutralize is Shaq.

    That makes NJ the only team I really fear in the East, and the Laker's the only team I fear in the West. The good thing about it is both teams could get taken out by other teams and we wouldn't have to meet them.

    Still I think we have to many weapons for New Jersey. As for a healthy Laker team . . . well lets hope they're not healthy.

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