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Thread: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

  1. #1
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Last season it seemed like there was a steady drumbeat of "Danny can't hit clutch shots" no matter what he actually did in the game. He'd hit a critical shot one game, miss a shot the next, and it would be "Danny just can't hit the clutch shots" as if the previous game didn't happen. So I thought this year I'd set up a thread that looked at it over the course of a year.

    Clarification: Danny is not, and never will be, DWade/LaBron/Kobe, where you throw him the ball with 15 seconds to go, move everybody else out of the way, and pray he gets the bucket. We've done that to him, but that's not his strength and I'm not arguing otherwise. Danny, like Reggie, plays best when he gets his points from the offense. Start some ball movement, set a screen, give him an opening, and see what happens.

    In our first game of the year, there wasn't a clutch moment because we blew out the Pistons by 20.

    In Game 2, though, we held off a strong push by Toronto largely due to Danny's clutch three-pointers in the last 90 seconds.

    I'm really looking forward to the next 64 games.
    Last edited by Anthem; 12-30-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I've always felt like Danny was clutch.

    He can't create down the stretch like certain superstars, but, as you said, neither did Reggie.

    Danny has been a bit one-dimensional over the years. That's a criticism. But wouldn't it be nice if the addition of West makes that all change?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  4. #3

    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Danny is as cluth as most above average players. He cant hit them all. We tend to forget that even the most clutch (Jordan/Bird/Magic) missed more clutch shots than they took. We just remember the big ones they hit and forget about the others - because they missed. DG was big time clutch in the Toronto game. Without his 2 big three's, West's shot would not have mattered.

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    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    The last 3 he hit against Toronto was a perfect play for Danny coming off a screen with the ball swinging around the top of the key to him....much like the Reggie plays.

    In the past I believe play calling forced Danny to try and go one-on-one, so it's hard to say he's not clutch when a lot of the plays went against his strength.

  6. #5
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Granger has hit some game winners and missed some game winners. Kobe is supposed to be clutch but he misses more then he makes. There was an article on this sometime in the last two years.

    All players do, it's just some like Reggie hit some big shots in the playoffs, so they are thought to be clutch. I've always thought the best way was to go away from the superstar since everyone is expecting them to take the last shot.

  7. #6

    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Granger has hit some game winners and missed some game winners. Kobe is supposed to be clutch but he misses more then he makes. There was an article on this sometime in the last two years.

    All players do, it's just some like Reggie hit some big shots in the playoffs, so they are thought to be clutch. I've always thought the best way was to go away from the superstar since everyone is expecting them to take the last shot.
    Are we talking about "Game-Winners" or "Clutch-Shots?" They are not always the same thing.

    West hit the "Game-Winner" against Toronto but we were ahead. Danny hit 2 huge three's that stopped runs by the Raptors. I would have to say Granger's pair of 3's were possibly more clutch than West's jumper because if West missed, the Pacers could still won the game with a stop.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I don't think it was about Danny not been clutch, I think he is, the problem was the plays that were called for him at the end of games, it was always some stupid Iso play making it hard for anybody to watch.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't think it was about Danny not been clutch, I think he is, the problem was the plays that were called for him at the end of games, it was always some stupid Iso play making it hard for anybody to watch.
    I hate watching Danny ISO almost as much as I did watching Reggie do it.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

    In game winning situations from 03-09 Danny shot 35.7%. (5 out of 14)
    LeBron? 34% (17-50)
    Kobe? 25% (14-56)
    Dirk? 32% (12-37)
    Wade? 27.5% (11-40)
    Last edited by Since86; 12-30-2011 at 04:50 PM.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I think it's wrong to say that Granger isn't a clutch player.
    Sure, when we had games down the stretch it was always Granger that was getting the ball, and often missing. But he wasn't missing because he isn't clutch, but because they were really, really crappy shots.
    And why were these crappy shots? there are 2 reasons:

    1. Granger is below average (compared to other scorers) when it comes down to scoring @ half court on his own. Even in his breakout year, and especially now, he scores usually when the defense isn't set - he knows how to take care of it and has the skills to do it (Granger has pretty good range, and while he isn't the best finisher he can get inside and more often draw fouls or score than not). But still, we ended up giving him the ball, letting him do a bad dribble move and force a tough shot.

    2. All these years Granger played with... Lets see... Murphy, Mcroberts, Ford, D Jones, Dunleavy, Rush, etc etc... Or in other words, inconsistent below average scorers. Opposing teams knew who to defend.

    So, when you have a guy that can't really create a good shot for himself and you force him to do that, and when it's easier to defend him because he has bad players around him... no wonder he misses that much

    If anything, I remember Granger going to the line a lot with the game on the line (Remember game 4 last year?) and making these shots.

  14. #11

    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

    In game winning situations from 03-09 Danny shot 35.7%. (5 out of 14)
    LeBron? 34% (17-50)
    Kobe? 25% (14-56)
    Dirk? 32% (12-37)
    Wade? 27.5% (11-40)
    And one other Pacer on the list -- David West 40% (6-15).

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    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

    In game winning situations from 03-09 Danny shot 35.7%. (5 out of 14)
    LeBron? 34% (17-50)
    Kobe? 25% (14-56)
    Dirk? 32% (12-37)
    Wade? 27.5% (11-40)
    WOW, that's kind of sad that he only had 14 attempts in all that time and everyone else on the list had close to 40 or more. We really weren't "in" a lot of close games were we....

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I hate watching Danny ISO almost as much as I did watching Reggie do it.
    I didn't see many times Reggie was given the ball in an isolation play to take on a defender one-on-one. That was in no way his strength.

    Reggie would get the ball at the end of or because of a motion play, and would have to go one-on-one if the defender stuck to him or got there.

    That's a whole different can of worms.
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

    In game winning situations from 03-09 Danny shot 35.7%. (5 out of 14)
    LeBron? 34% (17-50)
    Kobe? 25% (14-56)
    Dirk? 32% (12-37)
    Wade? 27.5% (11-40)

    That's extremely interesting!

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I was at the knicks game last year, and I would call that clutch. He might miss some, but if we need someone on this team to take a last second shot I would take him anyday to shoot it.
    Last edited by pacers74; 12-30-2011 at 06:37 PM.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I have not seen enough to be sure,but after the last game I would take West to shoot it also.

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    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Danny is fairly clutch...but let's not get carried away. He doesn't belong in the same thread with Reggie Miller talking about clutch shots.

    Everyone in the building knew Reggie was getting the last shot and their best defenders were usually draped over him. He delivered time and time again even into his late 30's. One year he seemed to be hitting game winning shots all the time. I don't remember the year, but I vividly remember that. His great plays weren't just in the garden.

    In any event, Danny is our veteran franchise player and those types of shots are expected at times. Should we appreciate his abilities? Certainly.

    Edit: I think the 5-14 is fine and all, but it's a small sample size and doesn't indicate how difficult the shot happened to be for him. But give him his props. Danny is our most effective player right now...maybe better than DWest.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-30-2011 at 06:54 PM.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    We are going for the team concept. I wish we would run our offense late in game situations to get good looks within the flow of the offense. That is how you become good a basketball team. You need to be able to be effective in the offense late in games against good teams.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I always felt Granger was clutch. Ask MJ or Reggie, to of the greatest clutch shooters ever will tell you they missed more than they made. Granger has hit some and missed some. Remember he has had to play for one of the dumbest coaches ever in JOB that did not draw up plays to Danny's strength. He knows MJ,Bird or Reggie but he is not horrible either.
    When I die I want to be buried upside down so all my critics can kiss my @$$ - Bobby Knight

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    well, two straight crunch time buckets just now.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    9 points in OT is clutch. And he did it in a variety of ways.

  29. #22

    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Another clutch shots from Danny in OT. I think "Danny's not clutch" is being used too much by some. He's no superstar, but I know that when it matters he can deliver, and he'll deliver.

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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    I think this thread can be locked. "No Link" to reality.
    Next!
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Game 3: Clutch.

    Clutch-Not-NA
    2-0-1
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    Default Re: The "Danny Granger's Not Clutch" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    That's extremely interesting!
    It settled a bar argument a few months ago.

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